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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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dok
.275 member


Reged: 21/04/05
Posts: 87
Loc: NT, Australia
Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising??
      #166883 - 27/08/10 12:05 PM

I have a early 1950's Winchester Model 70 in 375H&H. The blueing needs to be redone so i am thinking of shortening the barrel 2.5 - 3 inches and getting a barrel band/ sling swivel placed on it at the same time - and obviously reattaching a front sight. I want to cut the barrel down just to make it a handier rifle while walking through the thick stuff (the reduced velocity would be bugger all).

Looking at a lot of internet sites about the "pre64" Winchesters - they seem to have a rather "cult" following amoung a lot of Americian shooters.

By shortening the barrel and adding my personal likes to this rifle, would people get upset and consider that i am destroying a "classic" rifle (not that it would bother me). Just interested in people thoughts on this.

All the work will be done by a professional.

cheers

--------------------
DOK

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pablo_mauser_66
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 80
Loc: Australia, Sydney
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: dok]
      #166885 - 27/08/10 12:44 PM

Mate there aint nothing special about a Pre 64, I reckon its been romanced abit and the fact that quality control was a little better back in those days. Like you say it aint mint or collectable so chop her up and make sure you put up some before and after shots.

Steve

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1006
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: pablo_mauser_66]
      #166887 - 27/08/10 01:36 PM

Quality declined in those pre-64s made after WW2, apparantly:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/kentucky/2007/09/50-best-guns-ever-made

Maybe check on the "usedguns" site to guage value?

It may be a long time before an original one of these would be worth significant money, and it would likely have to be in pristine condition too.

If you look at ex-military firearms as a comparison, it only the very uncommon ones (ie not produced in high numbers) in "good nick" that fetch ridiculous prices. An excellent "common" exmilitary mauser will be in the order of $1,500 - $2,000, which would be under-value considering what it would cost to built something of the same quality these days.

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SharpsNitro
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Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: dok]
      #166889 - 27/08/10 03:18 PM

Without seeing it, it's hard to say what it is worth, the modifications you mention will reduce its worth. From my experience here in the US, the 375s sell for a pretty good price (they account for 2.4% of total production). My only recommendation would be to find out its worth and then decide if you still want to go ahead.

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Cinghiale
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Reged: 15/04/08
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Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #166892 - 27/08/10 04:30 PM

G'day DOK,
the other option is buy a zastava 375 for about 800 bucks, then chop it how you would like it. That way you could keep the 375H&H Mod 70 in good nick and have a good Mauser knock around rifle?

Hope this helps,

MOG

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pablo_mauser_66
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Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: Cinghiale]
      #166893 - 27/08/10 04:35 PM

or grab a new Zastava 9.3x62 for $537 and restore the M70 to its former glory. Highland 9.3 ammo is usually available up your way.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: dok]
      #166907 - 27/08/10 10:35 PM

It's too bad about your location. I have a pre-64 Model 70 .375 H&H with a barrel shortened to 22" which I have up for sale. Your rifle would bring substantially more on the market. With the current regulations in effect it would probably be difficult to even swap barrels between us.

If you were in the States, I would advise you to sell your rifle, buy one with the barrel already shortened (like mine) and use the difference (around $1000 US) to buy a nice scope to go on it. I have no idea how well that scenario would play out in OZ.

Another alternative would be to look for either a .300 H&H or .375 H&H Model 70 with a shot out barrel, buy it and have it fitted with a new barrel to meet your specs and sell your present rifle for substantially more than you have invested in the new one.

Over here you find all kinds of strange modifications to Model 70's which destroy their collector value but not their usefulness. I once bought a .300 H&H which someone had chrome plated, and paid only $550 for it. A trip to a plating establichment removed the chrome and the rifle is now enjoying a new existance as a .416 Remington Magnum in a friend's gun safe.

I have another Super Grade Model 70 which someone Teflon coated. I am still trying to figure out how to rescue that rifle from its tar like finish.

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taw1126
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Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: dok]
      #166965 - 29/08/10 07:43 AM

I've been a Winchester collector (primarily lever actions, though I've dabbled in the pre-'64 M70 too) for enough years to have some opinions.

Ignoring the collector aspect for a minute, it just doesn't make much financial sense to cut the barrel on a pre-'64 .375 H&H unless it has already been modified. If it's in original but used condition, you'll end up spending money to reduce the total value...just doesn't make sense to me. It has already been mentioned, but you'd come out far ahead if you sold the pre-64 (without rebluing it first...that will also reduce the value) and bought one of the newer controlled-feed M70's. You'd also have better metallurgy and an action that's really long enough for the .375 H&H round.

I'd think that there would be enough collector demand in Australia to make that work out. Also, there's a definite "floor" on pre-64 M70's because people like to use those actions to make custom rifles. Bobbed barrels & cut/replaced stocks don't affect that price.

If this is a sentimental piece that you want to modify then by all means go for it. At least you've asked the question and know how it's going to affect the value.

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RigbyUser
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Reged: 23/11/08
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: taw1126]
      #167209 - 04/09/10 09:43 PM

Respectfully, don't do it.....

Plenty of standard rifles around that you can modify.

Pre 64's have a mistique about them, and certainly collectors are always on the lookout for good examples. Some hunters (like me) often look over various rifles for field use.

I've passed a NIB Pre 64 in 270 because as much as I wanted to buy it, mount a VX3 2.5x8 and take it hunting I knew a collector would give it the proper home and care that it needed (deserved). The thing sold at auction for $1350 only and yes, it was a collector, a guy that had no intention of doing anything with it other than packing it away and showing it to his mates occasionally.

I spoke to the guy and his view was that unfired rifles should stay that way. Couldn't help admiring his discipline.

A good 375 in Pre 64 is a marvelous and relatively rare beast, it should stay the way Winchester made it, unless it has already been modified and thus is less than original condition.

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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
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Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: dok]
      #167216 - 04/09/10 10:35 PM

What RgbyUser said.

Of what would be considered the more standard chamberings in the Pre 64, those in 375 (especially the Super Grades) are probably the most desirable, followed by the 300 H&H and that is reflected in their pricing. Check http://www.gunsinternational.com/ and search on 375 H&H and you will see what I mean.

If you have to chop it up don't screw around with the action.

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dok
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Reged: 21/04/05
Posts: 87
Loc: NT, Australia
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
      #167326 - 06/09/10 09:44 PM

thanks for the thoughts. Maybe i'll keep it as it is and continue to use it for the flood plains pigs and buff...

I can always chop the barrel of one of my BRNO 458WMs
cheers

--------------------
DOK

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Buchsemann
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Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: dok]
      #167336 - 07/09/10 01:41 AM

Dok,

It looks like you may be changing your mind about "customizing" which has me breathing a little easier but I see you said "Maybe i'll keep it as is ...". I own five pre-64 Model 70 Wins (.243 Super Grade, .264 Standard Stainless, .30-06 Standard, .308 Featherweight, and a .375 H&H Super Grade). Others have spoke of the following that these "classics" have in the States and like most classics of any origin those left in original condition will always show more interest down the road than any that have been personalized. I'll ditto what was said about finding another of modern manufacture to suit your needs. "As is" your rifle is highly desirable to many. That's my $.02(US).

Regards,

Buchseman

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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Classic416
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Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: Buchsemann]
      #167487 - 09/09/10 11:58 PM

Different Tack....I think you would only enhance the rifle. The action is the main part of the rifle. Building a custom rifle from that is a good thing. I would not cut the original barrel though. Keep it original and get a custom one. Same goes with the stock; if you were going to replace it. That way you can always put it back, or at least sell the original parts to a collecter. To be asking the question, you must already want to do it.

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dok
.275 member


Reged: 21/04/05
Posts: 87
Loc: NT, Australia
Re: Winchester 375H&H pre 64 - customising?? [Re: Classic416]
      #167529 - 10/09/10 08:22 PM

I certainly have thought a lot about it.

I think it is time to replace the stock, as it has dings and heavy knocks and looking a little worse for wear..

i like the barrel bands on my rifles as it gives that nice safri rifle look - IMO). The action is still nice and tight.

i have looked at a bit of work done by Sunshine Coast Gunsmiths - Qld and it looks pretty good. These things are never going to be cheap but if it is going to get done, it should be done by a professional.

--------------------
DOK

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