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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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poprivit
.333 member

Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 397
Loc: Las Vegas, NV

Quandary
#164415 - 18/07/10 03:52 AM

OK, what to take, what to take?

I'm leaving for ZA Aug. 2 for a 14-day leopard hunt. I'm taking my S&W 500 Mag w/red dot as primary weapon. Leopard will be taken from a 40-yard blind (if I'm lucky). For my backup I have a choice between my .416 Ruger Hawkeye and a Weatherby ,257. The Ruger is shooting 400-gr bullets and weighs 7.8 lb with scope. Kicks like a rabid mule - not fun. Weatherby shoots a 100-gr. Triple Shock Barnes at 3,400 fps - zero kick.

I plan on using the 500 Mag on anything and everything. Load - 500-gr. bullets@ 1425 fps. I've taken an old stink bull giraffe with the same load. The gun is 6.5 inch bbl with a Burris red dot sight. As of yesterday I put 5 rounds in the ten ring at 50 yards - all touching. Yes, it do kick a bunch. I use a shooting glove.

Both rifles shoot to POI at 100 yards, and I won't be using them at a greater distance.

The animals I would use them on are:
Bait - bushbuck, old eland female, old impala,etc. Leopard only as a very last resort.

While there I plan on trying for a tuskless elephant permit, but it isn't very likely. And, yes, I'd use the 500 Mag.

Which rifle would you take?

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xausa
.400 member

Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA

Re: Quandary [Re: poprivit]
#164437 - 18/07/10 07:43 AM

Just remember, if you foul up your leopard shot, chances are good that others will take the consequences. Even if you participate in the follow up of a wounded leopard, the chances are about one in four that you will be the one attacked. I wouldn't want that kind of responsibility on my conscience, just for the thrill of using a questionably adequate weapon to do a job which has to be done right the first time.

You don't need a .416 to kill a leopard, but a .257 is too far in the other direction. A .35 Whelen, 9.3X62 or its equivalent would do the job nicely with a proper expanding bullet. If you don't have one, I'll be glad to lend you one.

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Ben
.400 member

Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia

Re: Quandary [Re: xausa]
#164450 - 18/07/10 11:20 AM

For the animals you would use the rifle on, the .257 seems fine for the smaller ones, but a little light-on for the eland. The .416 Ruger seems fine for the eland, and much bigger than required for the two smaller antelopes. I happily use my .416 Rigby on smaller animals, but they do have to be closer. Short of getting a happy medium, I'd be leaning toward overkill. Mind you, I have no African experience other than what I've read, just Australian experience.

All the best with the cat, too! I look forward to reading about it in DGM. BTW, do you know when we might be able to subscribe to DGM?

Cheers,

Ben

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39255
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Quandary [Re: Ben]
#164466 - 18/07/10 06:28 PM

Not experienced with shooting game with a handgun, but if you foul up on anything big, you might want a big rifle to try to drop it, or face long hours and miles of follow up.

The .257 is not a back up rifle by any means. IMO.

Good luck with the safari.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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FATBOY404
.400 member

Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD

Re: Quandary [Re: NitroX]
#164478 - 18/07/10 09:23 PM

As the saying goes.
"USE A RIFLE THAT WILL DO THE JOB WHEN EVERYTHING GOES WRONG,NOT WHEN EVERTHING GOES RIGHT".

So my advice would be take the 416.

Cheers Neale.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Quandary [Re: FATBOY404]
#164481 - 18/07/10 10:58 PM

I wouldn't even consider taking the varmint rig - only hunting rifles.
1,500fps with a 50gr. bullet is serious stuff - matches the 2 7/8" Sharps. With hardened lead bullets it will shoot through 2 Bison - sounds good enough, but I think it's the wrong bullet for cats. I believe you should have something that will expand for them, like perhaps a 350gr. soft, soft point at about 2,000fps. Personally, due to the darkness usually attributed with these cats, and their potential danger is not killed outright, I'd be using a rifle. my opinion- my ideas - never been to Africa, but makes sense to me. I would certianly use the handgun on the antelope including the eland but not on dangerous game. To me, that seems more of a trick, rather than good judgment.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Bramble
.375 member

Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Quandary [Re: DarylS]
#164492 - 19/07/10 03:06 AM

This seems to be a strange discussion.

We are talking about what to back up with on a Leopard shoot and dismissing a 257 Weatherby as being too light a gun.

Whilst at the same time considering popping it in the first place with a pistol that does not even generate the power of the Weatherby and a firing a solid to boot, which will not set up on said Leopard.
If that shot is placed a little too far back that cat will be hell on legs.

The cat is a thin skinned animal. I would much sooner shoot it in the chest at 100 yards with the 257, which if deer of a similar weight are indicative of. will leave a hole you can get your forearm into.

I would save the pistol to cover my back when I go to the ATM in Jo'burg, which after all, is the sort of task pistols were designed for.

Regards

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Homer
.416 member

Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia

Re: Quandary [Re: Bramble]
#164616 - 20/07/10 05:34 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Quote
(I would save the pistol to cover my back when I go to the ATM in Jo'burg, which after all, is the sort of task pistols were designed for).

If I remember correctly, a .500 S&W is more of a Hand Cannon than a Handgun!

Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member

Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB

Re: Quandary [Re: Homer]
#164624 - 20/07/10 08:05 PM

Bramble, LOL

I'm amazed you are even allowed to use a revolver as a primary weapon on a cat ?! best, Mike

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Classic416
.300 member

Reged: 08/09/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Brisbane, QLD, Australia

Re: Quandary [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#164626 - 20/07/10 08:22 PM

Hi, just my 1 1/2 cents worth. I have no African hunting experience; but from I've read on leopards by those that have hunted them; They are seriously!! mean and dangerous when cornered/wounded/aggravated etc. As a back gun, out of the 2 you mention; the 416 is the only option. Any chance you can borrow a marlin guide gun in 45/70 if the 416 is just too much? They pack a good punch.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39255
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Quandary [Re: Bramble]
#164628 - 20/07/10 09:21 PM

Quote:

This seems to be a strange discussion.

We are talking about what to back up with on a Leopard shoot and dismissing a 257 Weatherby as being too light a gun.

Whilst at the same time considering popping it in the first place with a pistol that does not even generate the power of the Weatherby and a firing a solid to boot, which will not set up on said Leopard.
If that shot is placed a little too far back that cat will be hell on legs.

The cat is a thin skinned animal. I would much sooner shoot it in the chest at 100 yards with the 257, which if deer of a similar weight are indicative of. will leave a hole you can get your forearm into.

I would save the pistol to cover my back when I go to the ATM in Jo'burg, which after all, is the sort of task pistols were designed for.

Regards

Bramble,

I assumed the handgun is going to be used as the primary hunting weapon anyway, as that is what poprivit is enthusiastic about.

However if a backup rifle is required AFTER a handgun fails, I would not choose the .257 Weatherby.

BTW I wouldn't use the handgun in the first place either. But hey, its not our safari and we aren't paying the bill! I assume poprivit will know what he is doing and make allowances for the firearm being used.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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JabaliHunter
.400 member

Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England

Re: Quandary [Re: NitroX]
#164677 - 21/07/10 11:14 AM

A .25 to .30 deer rifle would be perfect medicine for a leopard from a blind. My concern for any follow up would be whether the scope has a very low end power (1 or 1.25). I can't comment on the handguns and the bullet performance - I am sure that if the range is short enough for an accurate shot that a .500 would be more than powerful enough, but would agree with others that leopard don't require an overly hard bullet.

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Shackleton
.300 member

Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa

Re: Quandary [Re: JabaliHunter]
#164933 - 25/07/10 12:44 AM

Assuming you are able to draw a tuskless elephant permit, is the .500 legal for such work? Another member here shot a giraffe a couple years ago and it took quite a bit to bring it down if I recall. Also, I've wondered about shooting bait animals for quite a while-is this something that's allowed under your primary license as a consequence to your hunt, or will tyou have extra "fees" for each bait animal, much like trophy fees with any other animal?

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Quandary [Re: Shackleton]
#164936 - 25/07/10 03:12 AM

About power/penetration/ability to do work - John Taylor reportedly used a .577/450 Martini sporter with BP factory ammo for a while. That round from his rifle, developed about 1,340fps with the 480gr. paper patched bullet - usually of pure or almost pure lead.

The .500 S&W is more powerful than that but much more difficult to shoot accurately so all one has to do, is to put the bullet where it will do the most good/damage - that will be the challenge.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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