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Regarding dangerous game, 4000-5000 Ft/Lbs with .375-.500" projectile has proven to be a good killer. How about stopping a charge? Is a .500 or .577 nitro class necessary or just insurance?

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Very difficult to respond to your question, i deleted two times my reply ! We are again by the question or the fact : It's better to use big bores on big game or are medium bores sufficent for this job ?

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Just read an interesting article on this regarding actually shooting a .577 on elephant..an important item on the report was the velocity of the ammo used in 2 seperate cases on two bulls --the bullets failed to penetrate..later chronographed it was found the ammo was only traveling at 1800 fps...not enough, per the article, to penetrate the big bulls of Botswana..

Have had several PH'S tell me, again, for the big bulls as those in Botswana, 2300 fps is near ideal..

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Ripp,

I would question that conclusion. Not from experience with shooting an elephant with a .577 shooting bullets at 1800 fps, but from a gut feel.

Also the 2300 fps, most, if not all, of the big NE cartridges, shoot at the muzzle slower than this, usually around 2000 fps to 2100 fps, and have always seemed pretty effective to me.

A lot of magazine articles always seem to me to have a lot of "writer's licence" inserted in them.

JMO.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ripp,

I would question that conclusion. Not from experience with shooting an elephant with a .577 shooting bullets at 1800 fps, but from a gut feel.

Also the 2300 fps, most, if not all, of the big NE cartridges, shoot at the muzzle slower than this, usually around 2000 fps to 2100 fps, and have always seemed pretty effective to me.

A lot of magazine articles always seem to me to have a lot of "writer's licence" inserted in them.

JMO.

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John,
The article I was referring to was written by Boddington--think it is in either Shooting Times or Sports Afield-current edition..also the elephant hunts described in the article were shown on Tracks Across Africa--you could see the bullets hit the head--actually looked like a good hit, but no effect other than the bull turned to leave but was put down with multiple follow up shots..

As to the 2300 fps..when I was last in Zim in '08--had Len (PH) from Chifuti, who had done quite a bit of hunting in Botswana, tell me the bulls there were noticeably larger than in some other areas..told me in his experience, the preferred fps to penetrate from ALL angles was the 2300 fps..Two other PH's sitting in camp agreed with that statement...I should have been more specific...

I have only shot one elephant in my life..can tell you using a Barnes solid at 2440 fps out of a custom bolt in .416 Rem it blew out of her head behind the opposite ear, hit a small tree, come out the other side and kept going..Obviously plenty of penetration...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Could it be the character of cape buffaloes has changed a bit in the past 100 years?

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Regarding dangerous game, 4000-5000 Ft/Lbs with .375-.500" projectile has proven to be a good killer. How about stopping a charge? Is a .500 or .577 nitro class necessary or just insurance?

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Personally, I would also rather trust weapons in caliber 458 and upwards.

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I agree. With a .500 or larger being a step up as a stopper.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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One hunt elephants with cartridges caliber 458 and above, and then one can do without unnecessary animal cruelty like shooting in the legs and so on.

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Problem buffalo in an oil palm plantation in Malaysia shot with a cartridge 9,3x74R and a DWM 19g FMJ bullet, frontal shot. Stopped, but a second shot was necessary to kill it. Marginal cartridge for this purpose.

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... . Any idea why it was a problem animal?

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... . Any idea why it was a problem animal?

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Sure, otherwise we would not have shot it. There is no hunting in Malaysia like we know it from Africa.

The buffalo was coming from the jungle into the oil palm plantation and regularly attacked the workers. They are calling for help and that was the reason why I shot it.

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Thanks. Knew that about Malaysia was just wondering if it was because the animal was destroying plants or if it was also going after the workers.

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I can completely agree with that, but I don't know what experience the various hunters who have posted here have with hunting big and dangerous game.

I have my experience with this hunt, and cartridges caliber 9,3mm or 375, and to some extent also 416, have little place in this discussion about stopping and killing when something goes wrong.

I never meet a PH who used anything smaller than 458 Winchester Magnum or 458 lott for backup when hunting elephants. Some were very enthusiastic about the cartridge 505 Gibbs, and in many cases it is the price of all these weapons that unfortunately prevents some PH from purchasing a rifle in caliber 50.

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I think that one buy big bore rifles because they are needed for something special and not because they have a bigger caliber and do more recoil that the rifle of the neighbor.

Of course, this assumes that you can handle such weapons. As already written, nowadays it no longer has to be a weapon caliber 50 or bigger. The production of the cartridge 416 Rigby at the beginning of the 20° Century has resulted in some DR caliber 577 Nitro Express remaining in the gun safe. The stopping effect of the cartridge 416 Rigby can be discussed, but a rifle caliber 458 with a strong built-up FMJ bullet is certainly a rifle to use nowadays for stopping and killing the biggest game. Such weapons are also much easier to handle than rifles caliber 50 and above.

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If you cannot handle a big bore rifle, there is also the alternative of not hunting big game.

There are a few things in all discussions that are distorted because the absolute majority of hunters who hunt big game have a PH with them, a hunter who is right armed for this hunt and ensures safety. That is why one can hunt big game with medium and large medium bore cartridges without any concerns. If some had to hunt alone, they would look at things differently.

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