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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Ben
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Hunting Happiness and Range Woes...
      #160219 - 10/05/10 07:06 AM

On the weekend, my mate and I took our rifles, CZ550s in .416 Rigby and .375 H&H Mag. respectively, to the range in the city. We'd never been to a range before. Well, we got our butts kicked by our rifles, in two ways. Firstly, sitting at a bench and shooting these things is more painful than I enjoy. It must be an angle that we are sure not used-to. I only managed four shots at the bench before I could no longer shoot at it, and had to free-stand or rest the rifle snooker-style on the edge of one of the uprights as if it was a tree out in the bush (one of my favourite positions). Shooting in this familiar way was much, much better. Secondly, our accuracy wasn't so good, and our confidence would've taken a hammering but for one thing: We reminded ourselves that after our (youngish) lifetimes of bush shooting and hunting, almost nothing gets away once we pull that trigger. Having only ever hunted with my rifle (to see how it shot when I first got it and loaded-up some rounds for it, I used a feral donkey and a nice buffalo bull), the pain has never been unbearable, even after twelve shots. But on the weekend, it did become unbearable. My mate was experiencing accuracy trouble with his rifle, with hitting about a foot low at various distances. This didn't make sense to us, as he is absolute death on boars and bulls with it, hitting precisely where he wants to. Our rifles have open sights, by the way. Any thoughts?

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mauserand9mm
.400 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 1004
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: Ben]
      #160242 - 10/05/10 10:15 PM

Don't take offence but I think flinching, of some form, came into play. If the bench shooting caused pain then that would've caused subsequent flinching issues. It's a natural reaction and everyone will flinch given enough shots and depending on the rifle/body angle. I know that I will tend to drop the rifle fore end if the recoil starts getting to me, or even if I start getting tired. When this starts to happen I can sometimes "save" the shot by not squeezing the trigger, but I'll still drop the fore end. Embarrasing but gives me more incentive to stop the behaviour.

Recoil, and gunshot noise, aren't noticed as much with the excitement of hunting.

Another thing that may be worth considering is the body angle when bench shooting. Many people will lean more into the rifle when shooting from a bench which angles the butt more towards the top of the shoulder. The recoil will tend to push more down onto the top of the shoulder rather than pushing the whole upper body backwards when shooting upright when standing.

Edited by mauserand9mm (10/05/10 10:17 PM)

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: Ben]
      #160251 - 11/05/10 05:09 AM

One way of diagnosing a recoil problem is to take turns with your friend loading each other's rifle. Each time put a round in the magazine and close the bolt, but once in a while hold down the cartridge and close the bolt on an empty chamber, making sure he does not see what you're doing. Then watch where the sights end up when you snap on an empty chamber. It can be a revealing experience.

A folded towel under your shirt at the shoulder can go a long way to relieving pain from recoil. Also, you want to hold the rifle firmly against your shoulder so as to prevent its getting a "running start" before it makes contact.

Our high school physics teacher used to demonstrate this principle by placing an egg on top of a four inch square made of 1/4" steel place, which he let fall to the ground from shoulder height. The egg invariably broke.

When he repeated the demonstration with the egg taped firmly to the steel plate, the egg remained intact.

Just imagine your shoulder as that egg and the rifle butt as the steel plate, and try to keep them firmly together when the shot breaks.

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Ben
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: xausa]
      #160256 - 11/05/10 07:20 AM

Thanks, fellows. For me, I reckon there was some flinching happening after the first few shots from the bench had really hurt me.

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Bramble
.375 member


Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: Ben]
      #160258 - 11/05/10 09:49 AM

I certainly consider myself to be old fashioned, but I like two stage triggers on hard recoiling bolt actions.
I feel that the definite first pressure and travel gives one time to settle the breathing and prepare for the shot. It also allow one to back off and not fire.
I feel sometimes with a single stage trigger there is a tendency to take the shot anyway even if one is not fully comfortable because subconsciously having applied some trigger pressure it is difficult to let go as nothing is going to noticeably spring back to a safe position. Sort of like half turning on a light switch, it is not a natural thing to do. So one continues and anticipates a bad shot or pain and consequently flinches.
I believe that 2 stage triggers are available for the CZ at about $ 40 US it may be worth changing it out and see how you get on.

Regards

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: Bramble]
      #160260 - 11/05/10 10:00 AM

I don't like recoil at all. When I had my light weight 9.3x62 built, I had to go back to basics on how to hold a rifle properly so it wouldn't 'bash' me.

My 9.3 recoils more than a Ruger 77 in .375H&H but I can now fire >20 rounds a session prone.

Concentrate on puling the rifle into your shoulder with the forward hand and make sure you are completely comfortable.

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eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: tophet1]
      #160268 - 11/05/10 04:58 PM

mauserand9mm's last sentence is the answer IMO. When shooting my light 404 Mauser from the bench I also found it hurt a little sometimes, even with cast bullet loads. It was always due to having the rifle sitting too low on a sand bag on the bench and the butt pushing more to the top of the shoulder rather than into the meaty part of the upper chest and shoulder. I now use a bipod (yes heaven forbid) but this makes me sit upright at the bench and roll with the recoil.
I do clamp my hand around the bipod and forend junction to stop bounce as you get when using bipods and heavy recoiling rifles. I don't use a bipod for hunting.

I am able to pull off some very good shots for testing the grouping abilities of the various loads I try and the POI is the same as shooting offhand.

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Ben
.400 member


Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: eagle27]
      #160270 - 11/05/10 05:28 PM

Thanks. Some good thoughts, fellows.

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: Hunting Happiness and Range Woes... [Re: Ben]
      #162992 - 29/06/10 12:05 PM

Two words, "lead sled". I didn't need a lead sled with my CZ 375 H&H, but I probably could have used one. When I had it rebarreled to 500 Jeffery that was a different story! I only shoot from the bench (always with a lead sled) to do load development and get initial sight in. Then I sight in without it off hand and sitting to make sure it shoots to the same point of aim. I can shoot a box of 20 570g TSX's at 2300 fps without any issues offhand or from the lead sled. I shot 8 from the bench before I bought the lead sled and got a such a bruise my wife sent me off for X-rays lol ...

Get a lead sled, a good investment at under $100 ... Also dry fire five or 10 times before you start shooting at the range and every two or three shots dry fire some more. Also, practice dry firing at home. It will prevent flinching and make you a lot more comfortable with the rifle.

Regards,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (29/06/10 12:07 PM)

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