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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
470 Capstick or 495 A-Square
      #107724 - 20/06/08 12:55 AM

Hi all, I'm planning to rebarrel my CZ 550 Safari Classic in 375 H&H to either 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square this coming December. I'm probably going to order the barrel later this summer. Right now I'm leaning towards the 470 Capstick. I don't really want a 458 Lott, 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs, because if I wanted one of those (which maybe I should've bought in the first place) I could have started with a CZ 500 chambered in those calibers and started from there. So I kinda want something different, but that I can buy factory ammo and correctly stamped cases for even though I plan to only shoot handloads.

470 Capstick:

1) Easy conversion from 375 H&H
2) Less recoil than a 495 A-Square or 500 Jeffery and I can load it down to 470 NE velocities (500g at 2150 fps) and still be a powerful enough round for anything I'm likely to hunt.
3) Cheaper brass and I form from 416 Rem Brass
4) Hornady XTP Pistol bullets (350g and 400g) available for plinking loads
5) It's under 50 caliber so the Customs and ATF things don't kick in.
6) Krieger barrels and factory ammo and brass available from A-Square
7) Has that nice classic African cartridge look with a ghost shoulder and straight (not conical throat)

Of course the 495 A-Square has a lot going for it as well:

1) Still a pretty easy conversion, though bolt face and magazine work will be needed
2) Less recoil than a 500 Jeffery or 505 Gibbs can be loaded "down" to shoot a 600g Woodleigh at 2150 fps or 535g at 2300 fps (mule deer and elk round)
3) Brass can be made from 460 Weatherby, not cheap but a lot cheaper than Jeffery or Gibbs
4) Great selection of Dangerous Game bullets
5) Even though it shoots .510 caliber bullets the brass and barrel come stamped .495 A-Square
6) Krieger barrels and factory ammo and brass available from A-Square
7) It's a big 50 and it's significantly more powerful than a 470 Capstick
8) Has that nice classic African cartridge look with a ghost shoulder and straight (not conical throat)

So if I'm doing something stupid, or not considering something I should, please let me know.

Regards as always,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #107780 - 21/06/08 01:25 AM

Quote:

So if I'm doing something stupid, or not considering something I should, please let me know.



You show pretty sound reasoning on your choices. Of the 2 you mentioned I would go for the Capstick because I am more familiar with it. Also from time to time Graf's and Midway has brass for it. Right now Midway shows some in stock but it is mega pricey. Neither one shows any 495 brass in stock.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Schamankungulo
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Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: WyoJoe]
      #107798 - 21/06/08 07:57 AM

I would go just the other way ..

I would pick the 495 ..

1) the Cappy will not do anything that cant be done by the Lott , in a bit more manageable package ( the Lott is the bit more manageable )..

2) If you feel the need for more power than the Lott , then make the leap to the 495 ..

3) I have had a cappy , and a 495 , and am on my third Lott .. I have settled on the 458 for a couple reasons , one is the Lott will handle anything , provided you do your part .. Another is the cost of jacketed boolits above 458 gets really crazy ..

However its your project and I dont think that you will be disappointed with either choice ..

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #107799 - 21/06/08 08:26 AM

Thanks all, but you're not helping me decide! lol Just kidding ...

Thanks,
Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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Schamankungulo
.300 member


Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #107800 - 21/06/08 09:27 AM

Well hey you asked !!!!!!!

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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #107806 - 21/06/08 10:18 AM

Quote:

Thanks all, but you're not helping me decide! lol Just kidding ...

Thanks,
Chuck



The best decision is one of each.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: WyoJoe]
      #107810 - 21/06/08 11:00 AM

I did Schamankungulo and your post was really helpful. How was the recoil of the 495 A-Square compared to the 470 Capstick? I'm thinking of an 11 lb Capstick vs a 12 lb 495 rifle without scope. The calculator comes out with 62 ft lbs for the Capstick shooting a 500g bullet at 2300 fps vs 72 ft lbs for the .495 shooting a 600g bullet at 2150 fps. My 375 H&H is putting out about 40 ft lbs with my 350g Woodleighs at 2350 fps and is very mild.

Regards,
Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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Schamankungulo
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Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #107813 - 21/06/08 11:53 AM

My two weighed pretty close to your examples .. The 495 does have a bit more bite , but not much IMO ..

People look at the ft lbs of recoil and say OMG , but you need to look at the velocity of the recoil , thats what hurts IMO .. both your examples are around 19 fps ..

I dont think there is that much difference , at least to me there isnt ..

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #107820 - 21/06/08 01:37 PM

I'm leaning towards the 495 Go big or go home lol

Regards,
Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #107836 - 21/06/08 11:00 PM

Thats the way I'd go. However for flexibility and a real round the world hunting rifle where you could have the best chance of rustling up some rounds in a local gunshop, I'd go with a Lott. Plus you have 550gr woodleighs now too...

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #107875 - 22/06/08 07:31 AM

For some reason Jabali, the Lott doesn't do anything for me ... I guess I want something a little more powerful and a little unique. I'm definitely leaning towards the 495 A-Square now. I'll be gone a lot of July and August, will probably pick a gunsmith and order the barrel in Sept. On the AR forum they're hosting a big bore shoot in Hamilton, Montana in June, there are several classes, medium bore, big bore ... "and over .45 caliber for the men " lol

Thanks for all of the advice,

Regards,
Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (22/06/08 07:32 AM)

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
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Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #107877 - 22/06/08 08:06 AM

That is as good a reason as any! If it doesn't do it for you, then you'll never be completely satisfied and always wonder what if... For what its worth I think the .495 is a very good design and that 600gr will certainly smack hard

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #107895 - 22/06/08 01:46 PM

Thanks JabaliHunter, I contacted Kevin Weaver of Weaver Rifles about rebarreling to 495 A-Square,(Peyton Colorado). He's local and I've enquired on the boards and locally and he has a very good reputation.

http://www.weaverrifles.com/

With any luck we'll be ordering a barrel soon and I'll be giving him my rifle after a hopefully successful elk season in November. My rifle currently looks like this ...



I'm also having him price recutting the checkering and custom fitting the stock to me and refinishing the stock color to look a bit more like this ...




Regards,
Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #108034 - 24/06/08 08:07 PM

Good article on the Capstick that I came across http://huntnetwork.net/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=515

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #108040 - 24/06/08 09:52 PM

Great article, thanks! It seems like a natural conversion for my CZ 550 in 375 H&H.


Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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Naren
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Reged: 05/04/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Somewhere
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #108060 - 25/06/08 01:53 AM

500grains wrote that article, PM him and ask about 470 Capstick.

Have you thought about 400 H&H magnum??? Its quite an exclusive cartridge sure less powerful that those big bores but still it will kill anything that walks this earth. Easy to make brass, bullets from Woodleigh, Barnes, Hornady. More efficient than 416 remington, thus more powerful. Will feed flawlessly and less work rebarreling it.
If you want something different...

If not I whould go for the 470 capstick. IMHO

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: Naren]
      #108148 - 25/06/08 07:26 PM

or the .465H&H magnum? More work than the .470 Capstick as it's based on the .378 Weatherby but no more than the .495 I suppose...

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chuck375
.333 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #108447 - 29/06/08 08:29 AM

I think if went with something based on the Weatherby 378 or 460 case I would go with the 495 A-Square. Factory ammo available, good selection of bullets. Right now with the TSA restricting 50 caliber ammo the 470 Capstick looks better all of the time. I have until December to decide.

Thanks JabaliHunter,

Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #108499 - 29/06/08 08:53 PM

Wieland mentions this in his book and sugests that as it is marked sub-50 i.e. .495 it may be alright. I don't know the TSA rules so can't comment on it. If its true, then maybe the ruling will provide a new lease of life to the .495 and it will become more popular. Who knows? Worth checking out though.

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escard
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Reged: 24/01/07
Posts: 158
Loc: austria-europe
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #111270 - 07/08/08 04:33 PM

do the .495 A-square and the .500 A-square use different cases?

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: escard]
      #111276 - 07/08/08 09:59 PM

No, they are both based on the 378 Weatherby Case, but the 495 case is shaped more like the Capstick only with more taper and holds less powder than the 500 A-Square. I believe it "only" achieves 2420 fps with a 570 grain bullet, but has somewhat lower recoil. They both use .510 caliber bullets however.

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

Edited by chuck375 (09/08/08 09:39 AM)

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chuck375
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Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 445
Loc: Colorado Springs CO
Re: 470 Capstick or 495 A-Square [Re: chuck375]
      #111527 - 11/08/08 04:50 AM

Of course now that I've decided to go with the 470 Capstick, someone had to bring up the 475 A&M !!!



Chuck

--------------------
"There's a saying in prize fighting: Everyone's got a plan until they get hit"

Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"

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