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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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bulldog563
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Best PG Rifle?
      #47951 - 25/01/06 08:52 PM

OK so at the moment I am trying to clean out my safe and turn it into the perfect three rifle battery for Africa and elsewhere. I have a 500 Searcy on order and already have a scoped Model 70 in 375 that I am about to have some work done on to clean it up/make it reliable. This leaves me with a decision to make on the light rifle end. At the moment I have a 338 Win Mag Tikka. The Tikka is a great gun for the money but I bought it at a time when I was a little short on cash and couldn't afford something better. Now I am thinking about selling it and a couple of others to fund a light rifle for my battery.

So I guess my question is what do you guys think would be the ideal rifle/catridge combination? Most of my hunting will be done in Africa with the odd North America hunt thrown in. The rifle would basically cover anything from a Kudu/Eland on down to a duiker. I have a couple ideas but would like to hear what others thoughts are before I say anything. The battery so far has been pretty traditional with the 500 NE and the 375 so I would like to keep it that way if possible but it isn't a necessity. As far as price range goes I would like to be at less the 5K out the door with a quality scope included.

I know very little about gunsmithing so assume I would be relying on an experienced gunsmith to do any custom work.

Thank you all in advance for any input you may have.

--------------------
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Edited by bulldog563 (25/01/06 08:53 PM)

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Ndumo
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #47962 - 25/01/06 10:36 PM

I would settle for a quality .30-06, with controlled round feeding, wearing a quality scope, (Schmidt & bender or Swarovski variable.) Anything from a 7mm to a .338 will work, but as I recon you should stick to medium and smaller antilope with the light rifle (.30-06), and use it on eland and kudu only in emergency, I went lower than .338.
You have a .375, which IMO should be used on eland and kudu size animals. However, whatever caliber you decide on, learn to handle it well, and use only premium quality bullets.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #47966 - 25/01/06 11:46 PM

For general plains game hunting, anything from .308 on up to .375 is difficult to beat. I've used the 300 Winchester and 300 Weatherby and 180 grain Swift A Frames, and also Barnes X bullets with no complaints. The last couple of years I've used my .375 with either Swift A Frames or Barnes XLCs. With the 300s, and 375, I've taken everything from Steenbok up to, and including animal the size of Eland. IMO, a premium, heavy for caliber bullet is more important than the caliber itself.

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Yochanan
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #47967 - 25/01/06 11:53 PM

bulldog563
Hard to say what is "ideal". However, a model 70 or mauser in 270, 7mm mag or 7X64 would be my choice as "small bore". 375H&H will do fine for all the larger North American animals and African game. "My" small bore would work well as goat, sheep, deer and pronghorns rifle in NA.

What type of action/brand of rifle(s) are you considering?

Cheers
/Johan


--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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303
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: Yochanan]
      #47968 - 26/01/06 12:48 AM

i would use some thing like a 303 british or the probly more sensible 300wetherby

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500grains
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: 303]
      #47977 - 26/01/06 02:24 AM

For me, a .375 is a PG rifle, so I think you already have it covered. Eland, wildebeest and zebra can be tough to put down.

But if you insist, then my recommendation would be a 9.3 x 62.

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bonanza
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48021 - 26/01/06 06:53 AM

I don't think you can beat the Rem. 7mm Mag. in a quality rifle. The 7mm ballistics are outstanding and would make a good gun for long range shooting.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

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bulldog563
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: 500grains]
      #48022 - 26/01/06 06:56 AM

Yeah but I also want the light rifle for use in NA on deer , antelope, sheep etc. The 375 seems a bit overkill...if there is such a thing. I was thinking maybe a 7X57, 300 H&H, 338 Win or a 9,3X62.

What do you guys think about the best rifle under 5K?

--------------------
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Yochanan
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48023 - 26/01/06 07:03 AM

bulldog563
It's hard to say
What are your preferences, blued, stainless, walnut, synthetics, push feed or controlled?

Cheers
/Johan



--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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Charles_Helm
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48024 - 26/01/06 07:12 AM

In reply to:

Yeah but I also want the light rifle for use in NA on deer , antelope, sheep etc. The 375 seems a bit overkill...if there is such a thing. I was thinking maybe a 7X57, 300 H&H, 338 Win or a 9,3X62.




For deer, antelope, and sheep I would not pick the .338, the .375 or the 9.3x62, although all could do the job at appropriate ranges. I would look to a standard or magnum in the .25-.30 bore range. There are lots of good choices. The .30-06 is very flexible and the .300 H&H is a classic. For larger plains game you could use your .375.

Caveat: I don't hunt antelope or sheep, and may take deer or hogs with anything up to a 9.3 or (next year?) a .458, so take this with a large shaker of salt.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

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bulldog563
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: Yochanan]
      #48028 - 26/01/06 07:43 AM

I would want something blued and walnut CRF. Preferably a Mauser or its derivatives.

--------------------
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Edited by bulldog563 (26/01/06 07:44 AM)

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EricD
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48029 - 26/01/06 07:52 AM

Bulldog,

I think there is no reason to try to invent the wheel over again when it comes to PG, and thus I would suggest any calibre from 375H&H down to 7x57 for you. Everything from Eland to Dikdik has been shot with these.

Whatever you choose, I'd think of something standard (not a wildcat) that can be most likely found in one of the local gunshops. In otherwords, a 375H&H, 30-06, 7x57 etc.

As for what type of rifle, for PG I think any action/gun you happen to be comfortable with. A Mauser wouldn't be a bad idea though!



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bulldog563
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: EricD]
      #48036 - 26/01/06 09:48 AM

Anyone have experience with Sabi Rifles?

--------------------
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Yochanan
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48038 - 26/01/06 10:03 AM

bulldog563

I would call Stuart Satterlee and see what he could offer. His m-98 actions look really nice..

A 7mm mag, 7X64 Brenneke would be my choice

Cheers
/Johan


--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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SuperX
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48039 - 26/01/06 10:06 AM

Since you already have a M70 in 375 H&H, there's no question!.... I'd go with a M70 in 300 H&H.

Sounds like a perfect Light/Med pair ..... same bolt lift and stroke, same safety, etc.



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JoeR
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: SuperX]
      #48040 - 26/01/06 10:17 AM

Ditto the pre 64 in 300 H&H, loaded with 200 gr Woodleighs.

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JPeterson
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48050 - 26/01/06 11:37 AM

Dakota 76 it's what the model 70 should have been

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Scott
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: JPeterson]
      #48092 - 26/01/06 04:40 PM

I concur with the 300HH. It fits with the rest of battery as a classic. Besides there is not much you can not do with a 300HH compared to the other 30 cals.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: JoeR]
      #48093 - 26/01/06 04:41 PM

Damn they got in before me!

Yes my vote is for a .300 H&H Magnum in a Mauser 98 CRF of some description.

Perfectly classic and an ideal trio in .500 Nitro, .375 H&H and .300 H&H.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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bulldog563
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: NitroX]
      #48095 - 26/01/06 04:49 PM

Is the 300 H&H a good longer range cartridge? Say like up to 350 meters? I have heard that with handloading it can easily better 300 Win Mag performance.

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luv2safari
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48101 - 26/01/06 05:44 PM

That Tikka 338 Win is about ideal for general plains game. Don't sell it...take it along as your PG gun. It does perfectly well on eland, wildebeest, kudu, ghemsbuck...

I know, I know...I just ruined a perfectly good rationalization to buy another rifle.

Sorry.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: bulldog563]
      #48122 - 27/01/06 02:43 AM

Old loyalties aside, if I were to reduce my battery down to three rifles, I'd keep these, and they're all custom jobs that Echols built for me that are stocked and balanced the same:

1) 270 Win., pre-64 Model 70 action, 22" Kreiger barrel, McMillan stock, Leupold 2.5-8X scope.

2) 338 Win. Mag., Model 70 Classic action, 24" Kreiger barrel, McMillan stock, Leupold 2.5-8X scope, with Duplex reticle and a single 400 yd. stadia wire from Premier Reticles.

3) 416 Rem. Mag., Model 70 Classic action, 24" Kreiger barrel, McMillan stock, Leupold 1.5-5X scope

AD

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JPK
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: allenday]
      #48131 - 27/01/06 03:37 AM

I have other rifles but my core three rifle battery is:

30-06, with Leupold 2.5x8, with the same action - though different lengths - ,safety etc and stocked the same as my 375H&H
375H&H, with leupold 1.5x5
458 double rifle

The two bolts are customized Dakotas. The 375 has two scopes in Talley QD mounts in case of a scope failure in Africa or...It also has the Dakota 1/4 rib and barrel band NECG front sight which I think are excellent express sights. The 30-06 has no open sights.

I am looking for a scope for the 375H&H which is more suitable for leopard, lion, or hyhena hunting over bait predawn/postdusk. Had I the foresight, I would have one 1.5x5 Leupold in Talleys and the scope I'm looking for instead of the two 1.5x5 Leupolds.

With the two rifle practical limit for travel to Africa, the 375H&H and DR get the call since either rifle will do the job on DG.

JPK

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SuperX
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: luv2safari]
      #48137 - 27/01/06 03:53 AM

While I think the 300 is a perfect pairing for Bulldogs 375, I agree that the 338 is one SUPER cartridge.

If I were to leave for Africa today, for a mixed bag hunt, I’d take my 338 Win Mag, and
my 458 Win Mag (both pre-64 70’s).

Both have the same ergonomics (bolt manipulation/stroke and safety). Both classic American/Win rifles in Win Mag chamberings. And they’re just a step up (power wise) from the excellent 300/375 combo.

What I personally like about my choices:
458’s stopping abilities compared to the 375 if things get dicey.
338’s stopping abilities if a plans game hunt/outing unexpectedly turns into a dangerous game hunt (or just the need to defend oneself against DG).

The 338 is “the” most versatile cartridge in my book…. 180’s, 200’s, 210’s, 225’s, 250’s, 275’s, 300’s (and the 250 and 300 can be had in high SD solids!). Check out the SD’s for the premium 250’s and 300’s…… I don’t think penetration would be an issue on the big stuff….and with a lighter, high BC bullet, long range performance is fine (power and the ability to place bullets accurately).


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allenday
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Re: Best PG Rifle? [Re: SuperX]
      #48148 - 27/01/06 05:08 AM

That's a smart tandem of rifles, no doubt about it.

I was looking over my 338 Win. Mag. and my 375 H&H the other day, and I'm amazed at how much lighter and handier the 338 is in camparison. With a good 250 gr. load at 2700 fps. or thereabouts, I don't think there's much the 338 won't get done in workman-like manner.

For my purposes, the 375 H&H is sort an iconic, neither-fish-nor-foul cartridge............

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