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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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Dark_Helmet
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: MopaneMike]
      #56295 - 03/05/06 02:17 PM

managed to kill this thread, didn't we!

--------------------
_________________________________________________________________
When someone says a rifle is "ugly," what they really mean is "push feed."

-me

(long live the Mauser 98!)


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allenday
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: Dark_Helmet]
      #56324 - 03/05/06 11:18 PM

There's no reason for this thread to die that I can see.........

AD


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: hoppdoc]
      #378847 - 24/08/23 03:29 AM

Quote:

I would like to think that I can shoot and handle recoil better than most hunters. I like my 338 and 300 Ultra(ouch)mag and tolerate my 416 but recoil is a very subjective thing. I have musclebound friends who will not tolerate more recoil than a 12 gauge delivers and refuse to shoot any 300 mag/338 WM and above.It's just not worth the aggravation to them. And there are some light guns I just don't like to shoot with hot loads like the lever Marlin Guide gun with hot 400 gr loads.Its effective but obnoxious.I am assuming its the recoil velocity that I dislike with this load/rifle.

Is there an objective test that forum members would suggest to determine if one has too much gun?? Multiple shots on a timed course at a given distance? What size target would be suggested to shoot at with what gun? For the 375?, the 416, the 458Wm and various Doubles, and the 500 class Doubles/bolt guns??

One needs to know ones limitations!!




It's an old thread, but the topic is still relevant and a reason for heated discussions.

As the thread starter wrote at the time, the recoil is above all a subjective thing, so that everyone has to decide for themselves which weapon they can still master. You can certainly try to determine that with an objective test, for example shoot with bigger and bigger calibers until you miss the target or fall over.

At last, everyone has to decide for themselves and choose what they can shoot safely and accurate. In extreme cases one have to refrain from hunting some game.


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mckinney
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: grandveneur]
      #378852 - 24/08/23 02:07 PM

I’m not a highly experienced (hundreds of hours) rifle shooter or hunter. No African safaris, no grizzlies.

A .375 H&H in a 9.5 pound rifle is about all the recoil I want shooting from a bench. A .270 Win or 7 x 57 in a 6.5 pound rifle wears on me from the bench after 15 rounds or so. A scoped 416 Rigby in a 10 lb rifle is too much for me from a bench, though I have done it. The .416 and .458 are the largest rounds I’ve touched off and they seem about equal to me - the .458 being a Winchester Model 70 and the Rigby a griffin and Howe Brevex.

I’d want nothing to do with the .378, .416 or .460 weatherby cartridges. Even the .300 Weatherby has a vicious snap in a 7-8 pound rifle.

So I’m probably average or below in tolerance for recoil. And I’m not improving with age!



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grandveneur
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: mckinney]
      #378853 - 24/08/23 03:40 PM

It is about using the right weapon and cartridge for each species of game without going to extremes.

I also don't always understand why some people torture themselves with big bore rifles to hunt smaller game, weapons primarily intended for big game hunting, especially when it seems that these people don't use this rifles to hunt big game in Africa.

Things are but different in Africa. One tends to have the feeling that the majority of hunters in Africa are often under-gunned and that in this case one should test the tolerance for each hunter as far as shooting big bores is concerned. Use enough gun is a rule that applies especially in Africa when it comes to hunting big game or having the ability to defend yourself against an attack by a dangerous animal species. The whole system is but based on the binomial Client + PH so that many do not understand, or don't want to understand, what it is about. That is an another topic and some know what my opinion is.

Sure, you can have too much gun for Africa, but not with rifles caliber 416 Rigby, 458 Lott, 470 NE or even 500 Jeffery, among others things and for example.

Edited by grandveneur (24/08/23 07:01 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: grandveneur]
      #378858 - 24/08/23 07:14 PM

Good reopening of the thread.

Recoil tolerance is a personal thing, but the tolerance can be learned.

I started off using .22 RFs and shotguns. Then a .222.

I then acquired a .30-06. I found the recoil substantial.

When I acquired a .375 H&H Magnum. The .30-06 wasn't substantial anymore. The .375s recoil was hefty. Of course especially from a bench. I remember one summer working on reloading and shooting, say 30 rounds, with nothing but a thin summer shirt. I ended up with a jet black palm sized bruise on the shoulder. Each of the last six shots caused pain right to the tips of my fingers. I stopped deciding it wasn't wise. A flinch might develop.

Then a .450 NE. The .375 felt mild. The .30s like a .22 RF.

So I think a tolerance for recoil can be learned and improved. By going up.

After all when the brain occupied, eg when hunting, the shot at a srag or buffalo, one doesn't feel the recoil. One might feel the effects of several NE shots later on however.

Mind over matter.

Important tips:
- Lessen recoil, don't wear a thin summer shirt. Use Avesta with padded shoulder if you have one. If I remember in summer I'll drape a bath towel over my shoulder.
- Don't shoot big bores from a stupid bench. Use a standing rest. The body can move more fluidly.

We should have good threads on standing rests. Have had some attempts in the past.

Back to Africa.

A lot of African safari hunters do ha E too much gun. No need to use a ,375 for most plains game. But if they want some of the romance of old Africa through a .375, why not.

A .318, .350, .360, 9.3 and .375 were the idealmpkains game calibres for the larger plains game. 6.5, 7mm, .300, excellent as well for small to the larger.

For the DG beasts, a decent big bore is called for.

GV refers to the Client & PH "partnership". "Why does a client need a bigger big bore? The PH can handle it if things go wrong. No one hunts with a PH." This sort of bullshit sometimes reads on the internet clown discussions. Well many hunters also think they should do their own shooting, kill their own beasts, finish off their own wounded game. And not all of us have a PH to hold our hands for us, wipe our arses, cut our steak into smaller pieces for us ... We do it when we can ourselves. So much more satisfying.

I'm sure GV is one of these, do it himself, rely on himself guys.

It's mainly legal restrictions that force some of us from doingnit ourselves. At least after a guided safari or two. Assistance is desirable of course. Can one judge trophy quality? Know the country and its terrain? Local knowledge is always useful. Tracking skills. Not the least camp outfitting, tents, vehicles etc. Some local acquaintances of mine used to buy Zim auctioned hunts and quotas, and hunt there themselves. Auctions designed for citizen hunters. They had a friendly farmer who they paid to supply vehicles, tents,ncooking gear, camp staff, perhaps skinners and trackers. They enjoyed doing it themselves. Friends of friends. They had ceased by the time I learned of it. My chiropractor was one of them. We talked safari for an hour each time. A friend and member here was a friend of one of the.

But back to topic, the client, any client, any hunter can carry and use their own suitable for purpose rifle. Not be a pussy relying on someone else.



PS When hunting say water buffalo, I have no problem if companions or a PH also shoot the buffalo, if I've shot it and it appears to be possibly going to get away. I'll do the same for someone else. I don't want to follow up a wounded buffalo for 20 kms for untold hours in hot dry thirsty country. Or if it's close to dark, for similar reasons.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (24/08/23 09:30 PM)


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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: MopaneMike]
      #378861 - 24/08/23 08:53 PM

All you need is a 22 magnum with solids ,because according to the 375 H and H crowd ,its all about bullet placement

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Bindi2
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #378862 - 24/08/23 09:20 PM


I just use a 12bore 1.5oz solid for floaters in my eyes the recoil is OK


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DarylS
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: Bindi2]
      #378865 - 25/08/23 01:25 AM

Back in the 70's, I fired one shot from a .500 Barnes Supreme form the standing position. I thought I was ready for it, but no, I wasn't. I'd been shooting my BRNO .375 H&H from the bench and although it didn't hurt at all, I reveled in it's "power".
That shot from the .500 spun me around like a weathercock and I almost lost purchase on the forend. Should have held tighter, I guess. I went up to the clubhouse and drank coffee until my shoulder's pain subsided then went back and resumed shooting my .375. It felt like a .222.
I put over 15,000 rounds through my .458's. Although only in 2" cases, they ran current .458 Win. Mag. factory vel. For example, 2,300fps with 400gr. and 2,060fps with 500's. I didn't think it kicked that much, but accumulative damage resulted.
Those 15,000 rounds severely damaged the cartilage in my right shoulder to the point where, back in the early 2000's, I couldn't shoot anything heavier than my .17 cal. wildcat gopher rounds.
Just because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should. I which I hadn't. Of course a little moderation on my part may have alleviated the developed problem, mind you the damage occurred over many years of testing this ctg. Shot a bunch of grouse, coyotes and a few moose with it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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xausa
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: Bindi2]
      #378866 - 25/08/23 01:26 AM

My first experience with center fire rifles was with varmint rifles and I approached my M 1917 Enfield in .30-06 with some apprehension, starting out with light, cast bullet loads. I gradually schooled myself to deal with recoil in a way which allowed me to manipulate a powerful rifle almost as easily as a far less powerful one.

The last Cape buffalo I ever shot was at about 50 yards and running from left to right at top speed. I fired four shots from my .505 SRE (100 fp of free recoil) and hit him all four times in the shoulder, with a group which I could cover with my hand.

I was and am 5'8" tall and weigh slightly over 160 pounds. I am also a long time competetive shooter, accustomed to using iron sights out to 1000 yards range. Thousands of rounds fired down range have inured me to recoil and taught me how to recover quickly from each shot with a powerful rifle. They have also taught me not to brace myself against anticipated recoil and concentrate on the target, whether stationary or moving.

If you are not already a hand loader, I encourage you to become one. Getting the amount of experience needed is prohibitively expensive at today's ammunition prices. Shoot and shoot, and then shoot some more.


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grandveneur
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Re: AFRICAN HUNTERS--DO YOU HAVE TOO MUCH GUN?? [Re: xausa]
      #378902 - 26/08/23 03:39 PM

The title of the topic is a bit confusing because when you read it, it seems to be about the fact that on the one hand weapons are used for hunting in Africa that are far too powerful and on the other hand some hunters carry weapons that they hardly control.

It explains some of our answers.

The subject of rifles and calibers is one way or another currently discussed with great controversy. The spread of guests hunting in Africa has done that some things had to be adapted to the clients, especially as far as the caliber of the rifles was concerned. For years the minimum caliber for hunting Big Game was .400 or 10mm. It was then agreed on the cartridge 375 H&H Magnum to enable every clients to hunt Big Game, but provided the binomial client + PH, the latter for backup with a classic weapon for hunting big and dangerous game.

The question remains open, however, how far every hunter who wants to hunt Big Game in Africa wants to equip himself for it and should therefore test himself, if one can call it that, how far he can go when handling an big bore rifle.


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