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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman
      #286713 - 21/08/16 11:14 PM

What is the actual likelihood of loosing one's luggage travelling to an expensive and time bound African hunt - how many forum members have ACTUALLY had this happen to them?

The basis of asking the question is really to get a real world handle on the odds of my next overseas African hunt going pear shaped because of a lost rifle case or equally as devastating, a lost duffle bag containing the ammo......

I am planning to travel with a single rifle, my most prized earthly possession, a bespoke double rifle with two barrel sets, one in .450NE, and the second in .375 Flanged Magnum.... I was able to source loaded ammo, brass, reloading dies, et. al, within a short drive from my house and in stock at a gun shop for the .500NE. The .375 FL Mag was a different story and took a mind numbing amount of money and time after a VERY long search to get brass cases. I did luck out and find some Norma cartridges for a whopping total of 50 rounds in a gun shop out of province that I was able to mail order during the process of finding brass.

So, I am clearly aware that ammo availability in Africa will be effectively ZERO during a 10 or 14 day hunt. I travel fairly extensively on business and have yet to lose any luggage (fingers crossed I haven't just cursed myself). My first trip to Africa involved 4 separate flights strung together over two days to get me to my destination and another 4 flights and two days return home. Everything went smoothly, other than it was nerve wracking worrying that both rifles and ammo would make it to the hunt. I was less worried on the way back, because my hunt was over, but I never the less did not want to lose my rifles.

I chose the calibers I chose, because I felt they were the best of the best. I hand load so as long as I have dies and brass, life is good. I now have a lifetime supply of the .375 FL Mag brass and thanks to the wonderful folk at Hornady, I expect that the .450NE is and will continue to be easily obtainable near home.

So, back to the original question, how many members have actually experienced loss of their kit on their way to an African Safari?

Edited by Postman (22/08/16 08:28 AM)


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Postman]
      #286714 - 22/08/16 12:31 AM

For myself it has happened 3 times so far and counting..

The last time I went to Zimbabwe my guns sat at the airport in Johannesburg for 3 days while I was in Harare..at $1250. per day of daily rates..that is some expensive rental rates..thankfully I had purchased the help of someone in Johannesburg to assist in gun transfer prior to my departure from the USA, so on the 3rd day I got my guns..not sure what would have happened had I not done that..

Only 3 months ago I flew to Azerbaijan, got there Sat--guns showed up Monday afternoon..

Friend of mine last fall flew to Europe for a hunt..luggage never showed up he had to buy all new gear... boots, jacket, gloves, etc...his original equipment has never shown up yet to this day...so almost a year ago..

Personally I feel it has gotten much worse than it was even 5 years ago..think there are a few reasons for this..but it may all be conspiracy theories on my part..having said that, yes it happens, and happens on a regular basis..I also travel a lot so the more you do the higher the odds go things will happen..

This is the primary reason when I now book a hunt I ask the outfitter what he has for guns. I did NOT take a gun to Europe last year as the outfitter had very nice rifles..and made things go relatively smooth..I am headed back to mid-Asia soon and have to take one there..but, if I had a better option I would NOT take it..

I am headed to Cameron in a few months and will take one along for that as well..but keeping my fingers crossed..

I would make sure you have insurance on the weapons and gear just in case. Not sure if it works the same in Canada as here but I have the equip. I use and travel with scheduled on my homeowners policy. That was it is almost all risk coverage. 99% of the things that can happen to it are covered.

Good luck with your travels, hope it all goes well. I believe in the old saying, Hope for the best but prepare for the worst..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39259
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Ripp]
      #287026 - 27/08/16 04:09 AM

Never had a problem flying to and from Africa so far, fingers crossed.

My first international trip was from Adelaide to Melbourne, then Hong Kong for a week, then to London where I was to live for at least a year or two.

My luggage was sent to Sydney, the flight landed in Melbourne then flew to Sydney. I know the ticket handler put the wrong tag on the suitcase, as he insisted my cabin bag also be checked and I saw him put a Sydney tag on it. It was retrieved and changed, but the suitcase was already gone, and the bastard would have known he had mistakenly tagged it for Sydney as well.

As it happened my wife was flying on the same flight but heading to Syndey. A few weeks later would fly to the UK to join me. She saw my suitcase on the luggage conveyor and had it sent to me in HK. The useless airline was only going to send it back to Adelaide ... she insisted it had to go to HK and after a long argument the airline agreed. It arrived several days later,

Johannesburg though is notoriously bad for 'misplacing' luggage. Louis of the Afton Guest House years ago discovered a warehouse existed with over a hundred safari rifles in storage that had got "lost" over several years ... he put out messages on the internet so people could try to track down their "lost" firearms.

While I was hunting in Zimbabwe for elephant, a story did the rounds that one hunter had his H&H double rifle worth in excess of a hundred thousand dollars go 'missing' at Johannesburh airport ... expensive to insure and more expensive to loose permanently. Don't know if it was recovered by its owner.

If doing multiple flights I try to leave an adeqaute time period between flights. So if flying into Jo'burg usually I stay overnight. It usually works out this way anyway for me so far, for the timing of connecting flights. A quick turnaround of a couple hours really makes me nervous as to whether checked luggage will accompany me or not on the next flight. So far so good, fingers crossed.

As for ammo, if one has a rifle but no ammo, one reason many choose common calibres where ammo might be able to be sourced. A .375 H&H Mag, and many others will probably have some ammo available somewhere. But many of us also use cartridges which are much rarer.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: NitroX]
      #287214 - 31/08/16 09:56 PM

Postman, if I told you about my trip to the UK four weeks ago you would not believe it. Cheap airlines (Ryan Air, EasyJet etc will not take firearms). I was going to the UK to camp at a small farm in Devon. I have already got fed up with having to pay 100 quid each time I take a firearm so I leave 2 shotguns on the farm in the UK so I can use them when I get there. This time I took a rifle to leave there, just a .22. Having to travel Vuelling (owned by Iberia and British airways) since they would take a firearm, me and the two kids went to Seville. Checked in the rifle and their luggage. (I leave enough stuff in UK so I don't have to take luggage) Due to the airline screwing up the baggage tags we missed the connection in Barcelona BUT they put the bags and the rifle on the plane despite the fact we were not on it !! After 5 more hours (no breakfast, lunch, just water moving between terminals in Barcelona Vuelling finally got us on a Ryanair flight to Birmingham. We arrived at the terminal at 1.00 am (originally we should have been there at 1.00 pm) Customs office shut, no baggage clerk, no baggage. By now I was a little miffed, I saw in the customs office a RED phone. Now if you pick one of those up I figured something would happen. It did, "WHO ARE YOU" was the question ? I am Mike Bailey I replied. "What the fuck was your rifle doing on the public carousel hours ago"? came the reply. I told the customs police, for it was they, that Vuelling had put it there and furthermore I wasn't even on the plane. He bought it round, I showed him the paperwork but he was incredulous. My kids baggage (aged 17 and 10) didn't turn up for another 4 days and since they had flown in bathing shorts and flip flops I had to spend a load on clothes in the meantime. I personally would not go on an IMPORTANT hunt without my own rifle but I have to accept there will be times of pain. I could tell you about Mozambique and a nearly new Holland .375 Royal but it would take me to long to type !! Good luck

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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #287219 - 01/09/16 12:28 AM

Uh oh!!!!! Makes me want to NEVER travel with my own rifles!!!!!! This is an awful state of affairs. I bought certain rifles because I wanted to hunt with "my" rifles, particularly when the hunt is a special and extravagant affair in exotic (to me) places such as Namibia and Mozambique.... I suppose I should consider resigning myself to travelling with "throwaways" that one can easily replace by buying off the shelf, or use rentals which absolutely does not appeal to me. I did use the services of a rifle/hunter meet and greet outfit that arranges for in-transit etc permits through Johannesburg. They had told me at the time that their agent did have some struggles on the return leg to make sure my rifles went in the same direction as I and not get left on the tarmac, so at $180 USD, I suppose it was money VERY well spent indeed!!!!

Lost clothing is not so bad. So, one should be wearing enough to get by for a bit and bring personal meds with them in a carry on. I can either launder or buy what I need if it's jeans and socks that go astray. Ammo would presumably get lost with the duffle, so it does sound like a common caliber is more appropriate than I had envisioned. I'm already committed (money's been spent) buying oddball calibers that suit my fancy, so I suppose I'll continue to hedge my bets and bring along a second rifle in .375 H&H and pray that if anything gets lost, it's my duffle with my ammo. So much for the misguided idea of two barrel sets in "my" preferred calibers.

Edited by Postman (01/09/16 12:29 AM)


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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Postman]
      #287227 - 01/09/16 02:40 AM

If going into Joburg and you use an agent (I have done 3 times travelling on elsewhere), NO PROBLEM, it is the other countries ! Australia great too, v.easy

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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4918
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #287243 - 01/09/16 07:29 AM

My one trip to Africa had problems at Joberg and Sydney on the way home. In Joburg some twat placed my rifle in the lock up storage, if it wasn't for my pick up from Africa Sky running around and pushing people to find it, it may well still be missing.

Sydney, arsehole from QANTAS baggage handlers tried to damage the case and I had to wait at Brisbane airport for the next flight from Sydney to bring it up.

However all my trips to New Zealand have been hassle free.


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Rule303]
      #287279 - 02/09/16 03:48 AM

I wonder how many rifle cases end up "missing" due to either:

a) theft, or
b) tree hugger mischief?

In Zurich, I had a lady security guard give me a very deep and pointed scowl whilst she purposefully pounded the hunting crest on my hunting vest with her fist while it rested in the security tray before she fed it through the X-ray scanner. I said: "it's wonderful to realize who is paying your salary, isn't it?" There was no further conversation, but it illustrates that we are dealing with a great number of twisted minded, unsavoury, and mentally unstable greenies wherever we go...... It wouldn't take much effort for a deviant liberal baggage handler to mess with our stuff.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Postman]
      #287282 - 02/09/16 06:54 AM

Quote:

I wonder how many rifle cases end up "missing" due to either:

a) theft, or
b) tree hugger mischief?

In Zurich, I had a lady security guard give me a very deep and pointed scowl whilst she purposefully pounded the hunting crest on my hunting vest with her fist while it rested in the security tray before she fed it through the X-ray scanner. I said: "it's wonderful to realize who is paying your salary, isn't it?" There was no further conversation, but it illustrates that we are dealing with a great number of twisted minded, unsavoury, and mentally unstable greenies wherever we go...... It wouldn't take much effort for a deviant liberal baggage handler to mess with our stuff.




Isn't it amazing that the self-proclaimed "enlightened ones" are so calm and happy to agree with most anything unless its not what they agree with ??? Hey lets sit down and have a discussion as long as you see it MY way...amazing...Biggest hypocrites on the planet...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: Ripp]
      #287303 - 02/09/16 11:15 PM

Back in the "bad old days", in the 1970's when I first started hunting in Africa, airlines allowed me to board with my hunting rifle, which would be turned over to the hostess, who in turn would stow it in the cabin with the crew. It would be returned as I debarked the plane.

At the time, my all-round rifle was a Krieghoff over and under double rifle in .458 Winchester Magnum, with interchangeable barrels in .375 H&H and 20 gauge 3" Magnum. The whole rig, together with scopes and cleaning gear, fitted neatly into one case. I always flew into Nairobi and was met by my PH, who handled all the luggage details.

My other rifles, my Model 70 .300 H&H and my wildcat .505 SRE went in a locked aluminum case with my name printed all over it with Magic Marker. It was foam padded and had tie-downs to keep the rifles from shifting in the case. It never went astray.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39259
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Travel and the "lost luggage" boogeyman [Re: xausa]
      #287360 - 04/09/16 03:40 AM

Never took a rifle on board as carry on luggage but used to ALWAYS carry a large lockback Swiss Army knife on board. Part of my camera kit, as it had screw drivers etc.

Coincidently only ONCE had it taken off me, on a British Airways or could have been Kenyan Airways flight from London to Nairobi in 1988. I think it was BA. The blade length was longer than they allowed for carry on luggage (ie it is a lockback longer Swiss Army knife). It was also deposited in the cockpit and returned to me as I exited the plane.

Ha ha, a rifle is something extra, but still, deposited in the cockpit, NO RISK to anyone, and surely won't go missing or get into the wrong hands. Makes sense to me anyway.

I remember when I flew London to Madrid once, I needed to wait for two hours in Madrid airport for a visa to be issued, and the Spanish hunters were walking around with their side by side shotguns (I presume shotguns) under their arms or over their shoulders, not in bags or covered in any way ... 1988 as well.

Different times and places.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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