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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 333_okh]
      #89610 - 24/11/07 04:09 AM

I meant to say the .358 is capable at 300 yards. We must all be aware of our own capability and that is what makes us good hunters. The gun provides the power, while we provide the guidance. That said, I stive to do my hunting before the shot. To date, I've only taken one game animal past 100 yards, as it's the only one I felt I had to. Now, I'd not take that shot as I just get closer. If I was a meat hunter only, and I used to be, I'd shoot futher than that, but now, it's the hunt that's important to me, not 'filling a tag'.
; The modern run of magnums has hurt the ethics of hunting immensly. Brand new hunters, 17, 18, 19 years old, buying their first big game rifle, are (many of them) buying the Ultra Mags because they think, from the advertizments, they can now shoot their deer or moose at 600 yards.
; What we now have, is industry 'inventing' merely to increase their coffers, not inventing because it's something we need. Such is the 'free' society and to be expected, unfortunately.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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FourWinds
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #89613 - 24/11/07 05:13 AM

I have a Savage 99F 358. Light handy and accurate. The appeal of the 358 here in the US was it's use in shorter and lighter rifles. It was designed to be a short action 35 Whelen. The Savages and the Winchester 88 made good saddle/pack guns. So to my mind it, would be good to consider the type of action you are buying in to. I fell in love with mausers, and am a dedicated 9.3x62 user. But I haven't sold the Savage. It's a great gun.

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bonanza
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: FourWinds]
      #89618 - 24/11/07 06:58 AM

I was so impressed by the ballistics of the .358 that I bought a double rifle in it. Bullet selection was paramount.

Remington makes the 200 cor-lokt. Nosler makes the 225 accu-bond and the 250 partion. Bullets were not going to be an issues.

--------------------


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jro45
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Woodbeef]
      #89669 - 24/11/07 11:26 PM

If someone were to give me one I would not turn it down But for me to buy one, NO, I have calibers all around it.

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xausa
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: FourWinds]
      #89678 - 25/11/07 12:51 AM

I always felt that the .358 was designed to replace the .348 Winchester in the Model 71 by offering it in the Model 88 lever action and the Model 100 semi-automatic. Unfortunately, neither of these interesting rifles caught on. I say interesting because both combine the strength of a turn bolt action with the benefits of a well designed one piece stock. Superior instinctive shooting rifles, and a pleasure to shoot, unlike their Remington self loading and pump counterparts.

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9.3x57
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: xausa]
      #89686 - 25/11/07 01:33 AM

Quote:

I always felt that the .358 was designed to replace the .348 Winchester in the Model 71 by offering it in the Model 88 lever action and the Model 100 semi-automatic.



I think that was indeed the expressed purpose of the .358.

I used to own a couple .348's, killed deer and bear with them and generally liked them except for the fact that they were somewhat heavy for caliber. I also owned a piece of farm machinery that the makers called a rifle...the Remington 81, and killed deer with it. I always liked the Remington contraption, but more as a curiousity than anything else I guess.

As for the .358, I think it missed its niche, which IMO is a light short-action carbine like my Ruger .308 Ultra-light. For following up bear hounds and as a mountain woods stalking rifle for deer, how could a fellow beat it?

But really, from a marketing standpoint, the .358 was doomed from birth and I'm surprised Winchester even went through the effort to develop it. It never sprinted and always limped along, marketing-wise. Good cartridge, but it will never enter Top Ten in the RCBS reloading die list...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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hoppdoc
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: xausa]
      #89687 - 25/11/07 01:42 AM

No flies on the 358.

I have a 35 Whelen and its a killing machine.

I don't have a 358 lever cause of my 45-70 lever action's but I would consider the 358 in a lever action a superb longer range combination to have in the deep woods.

Evidently others do to---

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/gun_columns/notes/notes0404_0426/

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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400NitroExpress
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 500grains]
      #89710 - 25/11/07 07:31 AM

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



I've used 300 grain 9.3mm jacketed bullets of several brands in a .400/.360 at 2000 fps for many years and have never had a problem with inadequate expansion. What kind of bullet were you using? A 250 grain Woodleigh RNSN at the standard 2250 fps from a .358 sounds ideal to me.

The ballistics of the .318 Westley Richards (actual, not table; one of the few British cartridges that consistently fell short of advertised velocity) is virtually identical with 250 grain bullets, and it was considered a great killer.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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jro45
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DarylS]
      #90196 - 01/12/07 12:20 AM

It might be a good choise for some hunters and others not such a good choise. I could see where it is good choise close up for bear.

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: jro45]
      #90206 - 01/12/07 01:40 AM

At the low velocity of 2,150fps to 2,300fps from a .358Win.(OR .356) the 250gr. Horandy RN's work just fine. mY Bro's .356 with 20" gets 2,150fps with the 250's and he uses it for his guide gun. So far, the 3 moose and black bears he's had to finish have all died rather abruptly. One of the moose was just over 200yards and the expansion was perfect on the quartering shot. Behind the last rib, ended up in the front of the off shoulder and the moose dropped at the shot.
: Where you place them counts.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500grains
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #90214 - 01/12/07 02:50 AM

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



That has been my experience as well, but the 225 grain Woodleighs expand nicely.

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9.3x57
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 500grains]
      #90272 - 01/12/07 01:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



That has been my experience as well, but the 225 grain Woodleighs expand nicely.



Sounds like there are no good heavies in .358?

I shoot 285 grain bullets in my 9.3x57 at a muzzle speed of 2100 fps and I have gotten superb results on deer, black bear and elk at from bayonet distance out to 200 meters.

A good 250 would be very useful in the .358. If all the available bullets are too "hard", try hollow-pointing them. I have gotten very dramatic improvement in expansion hollow-pointing 196 grain 8mms.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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400NitroExpress
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #90773 - 06/12/07 05:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Based on my experience I would not ever use a 250 grain bullet in the 358, and I would try to use a relatively soft bullet or there will be no expansion.



That has been my experience as well, but the 225 grain Woodleighs expand nicely.



Sounds like there are no good heavies in .358?



Dan didn't read my post and was quoting himself. No, there are plenty of good heavies in .358. I shoot 300 grain at 1950 - 2000 fps in .400/.360 with superb expansion and penetration. The .358 gives 250 grain bullets ample velocity for good expansion with a number of heavy bullets.

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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4seventy
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #90777 - 06/12/07 10:15 PM

There is no doubt that the 250 gn RN Woodleighs would give very good expansion and penetration at the velocity that should be achieved in the 358 Win.
However, some 358 Win rifles will have a chamber throat length cut to suit spitzer profile bullets, and these could be too short to allow a 250 grain round nose to be seated out far enough to fit enough powder into the smallish capacity of the 358's little case, to achieve the desired velocity.
Lengthening the throat is an option, but this could cost veocity with spitzer bullets.
Trying to seat the heavier bullets out further in order to get enough powder in can also create dramas with the short magazine length found on some .358 Win rifles.
I've bin there done that.
The solution might be to try and talk Geoff into doing some 250 gn .358 Woodleigh PP's.

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bonanza
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: 500grains]
      #91923 - 18/12/07 02:17 PM

I just picked a box of woodleigh 225 and 250s for my 35WCF

Glad to hear they expand well.

I've not killed anything with my .358, but it seems such an underrated caliber.

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Blacktail53
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: bonanza]
      #93053 - 31/12/07 02:05 PM

I'm not sure I see a reason to use such heavy weights in the .358 WCF.

The Nosler 225gr partition is plenty of bullet for anything you'd use a .358 on.
It'll allow for reasonable velocity, great bullet upset and penetration, with less recoil than the heavy weights. A point to concider in those petite little 99's and modest bolt guns.

You can toss the 225 grainer 2450+fps and get less than 10" drop at 300 yards with a 200 yard zero.
Up close and personal in the bushes, it'll crush heavy shoulders, shred lungs and leave a blood trail a child could follow. The Nosler will expand up close and far away. A pretty good all around choice.

Mine will see duty on elk and an occasional deer. BT

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JabaliHunter
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Blacktail53]
      #93091 - 01/01/08 03:05 AM

I thought that the whole point of stepping up to .35 was to be able to make best use of 250grain bullets. If you want something that is very effective with 220 to 225 grain bullets, a 30-06 will work well with 220s, and then you have some good 8mm (e.g. 8x68S and 325WSM) and .338 rounds

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12FVSS260
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #96071 - 06/02/08 06:10 AM

It is still a very popular choice for heavy cover bear hunting behind dogs and also a decent moose anddeer stopper at moderate ranges where I hunt. I like the chambering quite a lot and wouldn't hesitate to use it in a nice light short action woods gun.

Dave

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #96075 - 06/02/08 08:19 AM

In the States, there seems to be a need for higher velocities, no matter what the calibre. This is why the big cased ctg. sell. Are they needed - no.
; For me, there is little reason for not using a 250gr. at about 2,250fps to 2,300fps. for most all shooting. The lighter bullets of course, are better suited for deer, but the 250 does a good job on them too. Accuracy is a must, but then, it seems to be a current trend that MORE power will make up for poor hits. It doesn't work that way except on small animals. In some areas, deer clasify in that category.
; The 225gr. Sierra SPBT should shine for more open country while the velocity won't be too hard on it's integrity.
; What we don't have in the 250gr. Interlock, is a soft enough nose with heavy enough shank to expand easily on light game, while penetrating deeply on heavier. It's a bit tough all over for these speeds, but does work well on heavier game.
; If one looked at all rounds based on whether or not they were needed for moderate to heavy game, we wouldn't have more than a .45/70 and an '06 to choose from.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Woodbeef
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: DM]
      #98166 - 03/03/08 07:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Is the 358 Win a good choice for North American game or just a dog as some claim?



The "best" use for the 358 Win. is for dispatching old "worn out" Valtra's... hee he heee If it will do that, i guess it's good enough for any other job too...

DM



No need for that,AGCO seems to have already done that in North America.

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bonanza
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: Blacktail53]
      #98190 - 03/03/08 11:05 AM

Blacktail,

My .35 Winchester is a double rifle. It can only push the 250 grain pill to 2150 fps, so I need to shoot a heavier projectile. Let's face it; with express sights, we are only talking a 20-60 yard shot.

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DarylS
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Re: 358 Win.....Good Choice or Dog? [Re: bonanza]
      #98204 - 03/03/08 12:59 PM

Express sights have provem to me to be the most accurate Open sights yet. I have easily been able to hold my 14 bore rifle inside 1-1/2" at 100 meters with them. Some 5 shto groups run as small as 1.2". This is a muzzleloading rifle as well.
: Bonanza - your ballistics duplicate my brother's 250gr. load in his M94 big Bore .356 guide rifle. He's dropped previously wounded moose out to 210 yards with it. The big bullets are surprising killers of game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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