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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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DarylS
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: Rule303]
      #380694 - 07/11/23 02:28 PM

Yes - it certainly does look like a Rem. M30, doesn't it.
I used one of those in .30/06 for a .30/338, then re-chambered that to a standard .300 Win. Mag. and sold it to a young fellow who "needed it" more than I did.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: DarylS]
      #380696 - 07/11/23 06:00 PM

Iron sights obsolescence discussion, three thread pages of posts, only at NE.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Bindi2
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: NitroX]
      #380700 - 07/11/23 09:06 PM

TR shooting which is probably the largest user of Iron sights (peep) is dying scopes have moved in. Small bore (22) is probably holding its own every other discipline is going gang busters all scoped.
The BBRG Nationals had how many shooters.
And i haven't touched on the vermin shooting Brigade.
Lazers are quietly moving in with thermals, starlight died.
Times and gear is certainly changing


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grandveneur
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: Rule303]
      #380701 - 07/11/23 09:28 PM

Quote:

...

Please excuse my ignorance but what action did Lloyd use? That looks a bit like a Rem Model 30, a factory rebuild of the M17.




Gewehr 98 / lateral slide safety





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DarylS
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: Bindi2]
      #380709 - 08/11/23 03:17 AM

Quote:

TR shooting which is probably the largest user of Iron sights (peep) is dying scopes have moved in. Small bore (22) is probably holding its own every other discipline is going gang busters all scoped.
The BBRG Nationals had how many shooters.
And i haven't touched on the vermin shooting Brigade.
Lazers are quietly moving in with thermals, starlight died.
Times and gear is certainly changing




Currently, all my powder burners, EXCEPT for the muzzleloaders, model 86/71 in .45/70, the model76 in 50-95 & the 8.15x46R M71 have scopes. My .25 cal. air rifles have mostly 6-24X scopes. LOL

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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HeymSR20
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: DarylS]
      #380711 - 08/11/23 05:36 AM

Here in Scotland we pretty much all use telescopic sights. Indeed most use a 4-12x50 or 56 type scope, if not more powerful, all with lots of clicky turrets etc.

Go back 30 years a 4x32 or a 6x42 was considered a powerful optic.

With the David Lloyd rifles you need look at them with regard to when the were built. David Lloyd died in the mid 1990’s in his 80’s.

When he developed and patented his mounting system most sporting rifles still were open sighted and if scoped, scope mounts were flimsy affairs easily knocked off zero. The David Lloyd Rifles were built to maintain zero and they generally did very well.

In the past when a Gentleman or a Lady bought a rifle the rifle “shot and regulated” for a particular ammunition. Open sights would be filed in for such ammo, and scope zeroed for such ammo.


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DarylS
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: HeymSR20]
      #380712 - 08/11/23 06:38 AM

Good info. I do know that a LOT of people shoot factory ammunition. Those who do, do little shooting, I assume. I started handloading with my first 3 CF rifles, every one of them, back in the late 1960's.
The first factory ammo I purchased, was just about 10 years ago, for a trial, for a new Browning .300 mag. I already had been handloading .300 mag. for it and wanted to test the new WW 180gr. bonded ammunition. It shot identically to my handloads, clover-leafs at 100 meters.
Just a few years ago, I bought another box of factory ammo, for a new-to-me 30/06 M70, that was made in September of 1936. This was also 180gr. bonded WW ammo. Seems to me, it was around $30.00 for that 20rounds. It shot around an inch, whereas the handloads, in that "old" rifle, do just over .6" for 5 rounds.
Just last Saturday, I checked the pricing of ammo in .45/70. I was quite shocked to see it was from $70.00 to $85.00. YIKES - for 20 rounds.
Then, I saw a box of 50 350gr. FN bullets for handloading, was $82.99 & 325gr. were $80.00 for 50 bullets.
Yikes again.
Good thing I cast for the big bores and have a decent stock of smaller bullets for the smaller ones - for handloading.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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grandveneur
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: HeymSR20]
      #380714 - 08/11/23 06:48 AM

Quote:

Here in Scotland we pretty much all use telescopic sights. Indeed most use a 4-12x50 or 56 type scope, if not more powerful, all with lots of clicky turrets etc.

Go back 30 years a 4x32 or a 6x42 was considered a powerful optic.

With the David Lloyd rifles you need look at them with regard to when the were built. David Lloyd died in the mid 1990’s in his 80’s.

When he developed and patented his mounting system most sporting rifles still were open sighted and if scoped, scope mounts were flimsy affairs easily knocked off zero. The David Lloyd Rifles were built to maintain zero and they generally did very well.

In the past when a Gentleman or a Lady bought a rifle the rifle “shot and regulated” for a particular ammunition. Open sights would be filed in for such ammo, and scope zeroed for such ammo.




The problem was that nobody in England knew with what ammunition the rifle was zeroing.

We had once again to shot and regulate the rifle for a ammunition our choice, but due to the marks on the screws of the scope mount, we were not the first to do something like that.


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Rule303
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: grandveneur]
      #380716 - 08/11/23 07:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

...

Please excuse my ignorance but what action did Lloyd use? That looks a bit like a Rem Model 30, a factory rebuild of the M17.




Gewehr 98 / lateral slide safety








Thanks for the info. I see he bent the bolt handle back so the bolt nob is close to the trigger.


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DarylS
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: Rule303]
      #380717 - 08/11/23 09:18 AM

That weird dog-leg bolt and the seemingly long, differently shaped sleeve fooled me. not hard to do with guns I had 35 years ago.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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luv2safari
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: NitroX]
      #380783 - 30/11/23 12:10 PM

Quote:



I think it should be mandatory for any new shooter to learn using open sights, not start with optics. IMO. Of course lesser eyesight forces some to for go open sights.

When younger I could shoot very well with my open sights. With good eyesight it merely a skill to learn.

No doubt the smartphone glued Creedmoor obsessed generation disagrees.




Hell John. Today's snowflakes can't change a spare tire or do arithmetic. A letter written in cursive is some strange code to them.

Do you actually believe they'll frustrate themselves with open sights. They're too complicated.

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Hunt with Class and Classics


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yamoon
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: luv2safari]
      #383130 - 06/03/24 02:50 AM

I shoot hundreds of 8.15x46r down range from German schuetzen rifles, all open sights. I have had cataract surgery with astigmatism correction. 80 years old, still love those open sights.
Mike

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Mike


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9.3x57
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: yamoon]
      #383137 - 06/03/24 04:18 AM

Here, NOT obsolete:

1) Super bad weather with sleet and heavy snow it's irons. Constant wiping of the scope lenses is a pain and in the woods shots are close and in the open close, too, under those conditions when you can't see very far anyhow.

2) For butcher stock shooting. Scope places the line of sight very high and it's best to look right down the barrel. We use irons exclusively for that and I've never seen a mobile butcher with a scoped rifle. Friday we put another couple ram lambs in the freezer and it'll be the same-old-same-old Paratrooper 94 that's the companion on the snare line, too where the same circumstances exist.



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Rule303
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #383146 - 06/03/24 09:15 AM

I like your paratrooper 30-30.

I agree that in bad weather open sights are less of a problem than scopes.


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9.3x57
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: Rule303]
      #383153 - 06/03/24 01:36 PM

Quote:

I like your paratrooper 30-30.

I agree that in bad weather open sights are less of a problem than scopes.




Absolutely.

I should have been clear. It is a 94 but it's one of those tang safety factory .44 magnums.

i hated the tang safety so i drilled a hole, threaded it and set a machine screw in it to block it.



the folding stock idea i got from a local old timer who had the idea back in the '50's. gun and old timer long gone now.




--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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9.3x57
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #383154 - 06/03/24 01:41 PM

On irons, my favorite setup is quite like most modern combat pistols:

Rear, filed flat on top, square notch:



Front is square top post.

Fast acquisition when needed and solid fine sight picture when needed.



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #383155 - 06/03/24 01:49 PM

My 2 lever guns both have irons, of course. Pedersoli M1886/71 .45/70, 350's at 2,050fps and the Uberti 1876 in .50/95, 368gr.FN's @ 1,750fps.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: luv2safari]
      #383161 - 06/03/24 02:45 PM

Quote:


Hell John. Today's snowflakes can't change a spare tire or do arithmetic. A letter written in cursive is some strange code to them.

Do you actually believe they'll frustrate themselves with open sights. They're too complicated.




Change a tyre? Don't you have a smartphone to telephone a roadside assistant?

Arithmetic ? What, I've got a calculator on my smartphone for that.

Cursive? That's like Arabic. Who needs to use a pen and paper. Pens and paper is destroying the planit. So "boomer" old school. I just send a text via my smartphone.

The smarter phones get, the dumber people get.

Thanks for the laugh I got reading your reply.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (06/03/24 02:49 PM)


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DORLEAC
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: NitroX]
      #383168 - 06/03/24 07:10 PM


I'm not going into the discussion between open sights pro and con.
I have always attached great importance to the metallic sight line on the rifles we manufacture.
Of course we respect the requirements of our customers but, for me, a rifle without a set of perfectly regulated metallic sights and without an hand fitted quick detachable scope mount guaranteeing a perfect return to zero is not a real rifleman rifle....
I also note that many forget all the benefits that the addition of a quality diopter can bring to our ageing eyes.
This is just my personal opinion and I don't impose it on anyone.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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9.3x57
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: DORLEAC]
      #383170 - 06/03/24 09:11 PM

Quote:


I'm not going into the discussion between open sights pro and con.
I have always attached great importance to the metallic sight line on the rifles we manufacture.
Of course we respect the requirements of our customers but, for me, a rifle without a set of perfectly regulated metallic sights and without an hand fitted quick detachable scope mount guaranteeing a perfect return to zero is not a real rifleman rifle....
I also note that many forget all the benefits that the addition of a quality diopter can bring to our ageing eyes.
This is just my personal opinion and I don't impose it on anyone.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com




I've had sights put on various rifles and lament the fact that they are no longer standard issue on factory rifles, so I see nothing controversial in what you post here. The only reason my sightless rifles are sightless is that standard sights were not available and for most shooting I don't absolutely NEED them. But given the option to have them, your points are 100% solid. I still think a barrel sans sights looks odd and unfinished as well.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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lancaster
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #383185 - 07/03/24 05:25 AM

when the rifle have no scope iron sights are essential. if there is a scope and the rifle have no iron sights the rifle looks like cultural bolshevism

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: DORLEAC]
      #383209 - 07/03/24 03:44 PM

Quote:


I'm not going into the discussion between open sights pro and con.
I have always attached great importance to the metallic sight line on the rifles we manufacture.
Of course we respect the requirements of our customers but, for me, a rifle without a set of perfectly regulated metallic sights and without an hand fitted quick detachable scope mount guaranteeing a perfect return to zero is not a real rifleman rifle....
I also note that many forget all the benefits that the addition of a quality diopter can bring to our ageing eyes.
This is just my personal opinion and I don't impose it on anyone.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com




Good post as one would expect.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: lancaster]
      #383211 - 07/03/24 03:54 PM

Quote:

when the rifle have no scope iron sights are essential. if there is a scope and the rifle have no iron sights the rifle looks like cultural bolshevism




Funny.

I succumbed to trendy fashion and removed open sights from my Parker Hale M98 .30-06. if I could find them again, I'd restore them. Just looks better, especially now as the MontecCarlo stock was replaced with a bespoke modern "American" style classic stock.

My old Remington 788 .222 has no open sights, removed. It doesn't matter on that rifle.

Modern makers make rifles with cheap and nasty stocks, plastic, synthetic, composite, ugly rifles, no open sights, picatinny rails etc. All for cost reasons. Entirely suitable for a 6.5 Creedmoor type rifle. A classic 6.5x55 rifle would demand more style.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Re: Are Iron Sights Obsolete? [Re: NitroX]
      #383221 - 08/03/24 03:49 AM

Used the factory iron sights on my 9.3x57 for a moose, in 2009.
A chip-shot at 200yards. Pretty easy.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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