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Hoot
.275 member

Reged: 25/01/17
Posts: 88
Loc: MN

Since you all are fond of drivel...
#372900 - 06/01/23 02:09 AM

(sarcasm off), torture yourselves with this:
https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/cartridge-comparison-old-rounds-their-modern-counterparts/

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26486
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: Hoot]
#372901 - 06/01/23 03:30 AM

Drivel indeed. Some of the statements made on the ballistics, are incorrect as well.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1412
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: DarylS]
#372904 - 06/01/23 05:40 AM

More "gun writer"/"expert" Onanism……….
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: 3DogMike]
#372911 - 06/01/23 07:24 PM

"Hornady—which developed the 6.5 mm Creedmoor specifically for long-range shooting in 2007—make both a 6.5x55 mm Swede and 6.5 mm Creedmoor load that use the same exact bullet advertised at identical velocities"

how could you dare to disillusion me this way?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: lancaster]
#372913 - 06/01/23 09:18 PM

Quote:

"Hornady—which developed the 6.5 mm Creedmoor specifically for long-range shooting in 2007—make both a 6.5x55 mm Swede and 6.5 mm Creedmoor load that use the same exact bullet advertised at identical velocities"

how could you dare to disillusion me this way?

Exactly. I can't say anything. One of long term very active members seems to be offended by "kicking sand" at the Creedmoor, and hasn't visited the forums for over a month ... Over a cartridge!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372914 - 06/01/23 09:24 PM

Quote:

Comparatively, the 7x57 mm Mauser, while it can still use the same bullet weights and even the same powder, falls a couple hundred feet per second short of the 7 mm-08 Rem.

Rubbish. Only in underloaded 7x57 factory ammunition. What a larger capacity case produces less velocity?

Regarding guntalk there is now lots of talk about the 7x57/.275 Mauser but who hears of the 7mm/08 nowadays?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372915 - 06/01/23 09:27 PM

Quote:

That said, to do a fair comparison, we’ll only reference the older cartridge ballistics to keep within the theme of this article. The original .30-'06 Sprg. loads used a 150-grain bullet traveling at a now modest 2,700 f.p.s. However, .308 Win. loads nowadays will do that and more, reaching nearly 3,000 f.p.s. using the same bullet weights.

Why the articial old ballistics restrictions? New vs new loads would show the advantage of the .30-06. Drivel indeed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372916 - 06/01/23 09:31 PM

Quote:

7.92x57 mm Mauser vs. .338 Federal

.323 vs .338, same bullet weight. Not a valid comparison. Only a 100 fps difference.

How does a .318 WR .330 compare in a modern loading, 200 gr bullet?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372917 - 06/01/23 09:37 PM

Quote:

.45-70 Gov't. vs. .458 SOCOM

The writer changes the methodology for this one, otherwise the .45/70 using the original methodology is faster and better by the criteria.

But the SOCOM can be used in an AR.

Carrying big magazines of lots of ammo might be a military consideration. It's usually not for sporting hunters.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372918 - 06/01/23 09:43 PM

Quote:

Why Still Shoot Century-Old Cartridges?

This probably raises the question of why we should even bother with older cartridges? For one, there’s something to be said about the fact that these cartridges still exist. That in and of itself is a testament to their utility. Have we made improvements, and in some ways all but obsoleted these ancient rounds?

Because per real analysis without artificial biased restrictions they are better! And are uber cool and classic.

The article is designed to sell ammunition and new rifles.

Some people prefer the latest. Most on here love classics. Still doing what they have for a 120 years! In new rifles or lovely old vintage rifles.

These drivel space filling articles at least allow us something to moan and argue about.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26486
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372929 - 07/01/23 05:01 AM

Gun writers get paid by the word, don't they.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3975
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: DarylS]
#372934 - 07/01/23 06:43 AM

Quote:

Gun writers get paid by the word, don't they.

Oh yes - never a truer word said

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Rule303
.416 member

Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4906
Loc: Woodford Qld

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: DarylS]
#372937 - 07/01/23 07:16 AM

Quote:

Gun writers get paid by the word, don't they.

Hit the nail on the head me thinks.

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crshelton
.333 member

Reged: 10/11/15
Posts: 379
Loc: Republic of Texas

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: Rule303]
#372939 - 07/01/23 09:14 AM

Another article that I am happy never to have read.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3522
Loc: Colorado

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: crshelton]
#372945 - 07/01/23 01:02 PM

Yeah, pretty much drivel...

More of the same newer is better crap. Comparing original 100yr old ballistics to modern factory loads.

Sure, the 308 is a better .308 cal. cartridge if you're toting belts or cans of military rounds through the jungle, but it will never match the 30'06 when the actual shooting starts.

Same as the 30'06 won't match the 300WM or 300H&H. Why bother comparing the two?

That said, the 30'06, with proper bullets will do 95% of the 300WM or H&H and leave the 308 behind long before that.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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sharps4590
.333 member

Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 250
Loc: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: Huvius]
#372952 - 07/01/23 11:41 PM

The bore diameter of the 8 X 57 was not changed. The GROOVE diameter was enlarged from .318 to .323 and bullet weight and shape were changed.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26486
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: Huvius]
#372956 - 08/01/23 03:40 AM

Quote:

Yeah, pretty much drivel...

More of the same newer is better crap. Comparing original 100yr old ballistics to modern factory loads.

Sure, the 308 is a better .308 cal. cartridge if you're toting belts or cans of military rounds through the jungle, but it will never match the 30'06 when the actual shooting starts.

Same as the 30'06 won't match the 300WM or 300H&H. Why bother comparing the two?

That said, the 30'06, with proper bullets will do 95% of the 300WM or H&H and leave the 308 behind long before that.

My September 1936 M70 makes 2,960fps with a 165gr. SST AND just over 1/2" for 5 shots at 100 meters, just saying.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rule303
.416 member

Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4906
Loc: Woodford Qld

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: DarylS]
#372960 - 08/01/23 08:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, pretty much drivel...

More of the same newer is better crap. Comparing original 100yr old ballistics to modern factory loads.

Sure, the 308 is a better .308 cal. cartridge if you're toting belts or cans of military rounds through the jungle, but it will never match the 30'06 when the actual shooting starts.

Same as the 30'06 won't match the 300WM or 300H&H. Why bother comparing the two?

That said, the 30'06, with proper bullets will do 95% of the 300WM or H&H and leave the 308 behind long before that.

My September 1936 M70 makes 2,960fps with a 165gr. SST AND just over 1/2" for 5 shots at 100 meters, just saying.

I do not know why everybody is so wrapped in the 30-06. It is just a passing fad

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Homer
.416 member

Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: Rule303]
#372961 - 08/01/23 08:45 AM

G'Day Fella's,

I'm not much into cartridge comparisons, at the best of times.
This apears to be yet another, poor example of this.

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26486
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: Rule303]
#372962 - 08/01/23 10:45 AM

Not sure when that "fad" is going to pass, but it's bound to, sooner or later. I'm betting on later.

Maybe a LOT later.
In 1912, it was way ahead of it's time, of course, so were the 6.5x55, 7mm Mauser and 8mm version as well.
The 8 Lebel, now THAT was bound to fail.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: sharps4590]
#372963 - 08/01/23 06:41 PM

Quote:

The bore diameter of the 8 X 57 was not changed. The GROOVE diameter was enlarged from .318 to .323 and bullet weight and shape were changed.

Does this mean non S cartridges or .318 projectiles can be used reasonably ie "accurately" in a .323 groove bore?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: Rule303]
#372964 - 08/01/23 06:46 PM

Quote:

I do not know why everybody is so wrapped in the 30-06. It is just a passing fad

Good one.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26486
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372969 - 08/01/23 07:42 PM

LOL - laugh all you want, the .30/06 is here to stay for a LONG time coming.(unless WEF gets it's way)
here's where I laugh.

PS - it will also do 2,450fps with a 250 gr. RN.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39196
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: DarylS]
#372972 - 08/01/23 07:52 PM

Daryl, .303 and I are expressing sarcasm. Meaning the opposite of what is said.

I'm sure when the .300 Winchester Magnum was the "Creedmoor" of the day, it was said the .30-06 was obsolete and dead. Yet today I would guess more .30-06s would be sold than.300 Win Mags?

I expect one-day the same for the other current 100% unmentionable manbun cartridge ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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sharps4590
.333 member

Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 250
Loc: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Since you all are fond of drivel... [Re: NitroX]
#372978 - 09/01/23 04:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The bore diameter of the 8 X 57 was not changed. The GROOVE diameter was enlarged from .318 to .323 and bullet weight and shape were changed.

Does this mean non S cartridges or .318 projectiles can be used reasonably ie "accurately" in a .323 groove bore?

I can't speak for Australia but, in the US I don't know if you can find loaded .318 bullets in 8 x 57 ammo. As I understand it most ammo makers in the US use .321 bullets and load the 8 X 57 down.

I imagine .318 bullets in a .323 barrel would give at least serviceable accuracy but, I don't know. In the US .323 bullets abound, for handloaders. I know of one source for .318 or, do as I do and swage .323 down.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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