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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait
      #345355 - 26/09/20 11:11 PM

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/222-remington-rifle-cartridge-family-portrait/380310

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Marrakai
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Posts: 3475
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Ripp]
      #345359 - 27/09/20 12:56 AM

Very interesting article, pretty comprehensive family tree that's for sure. Thanks for posting it Ripp.

Unlike any hundred other shooters I have never owned a .223 and probably never will.

But I do have a gorgeous little Sako L-46 with full-wood stock chambered for the .222 cartridge. It wears a Pecar in factory-fitted claw mounts. Early safety so maybe 1952-54 manufacture. Chamber is so tight that cases fired in any other rifle cannot be sized to fit with a standard full-length sizing die. Loves Sierra 52gr hollow-points, and will put 5 of them into 5/8 inch on centers at 100m all day long.

It doesn't get taken afield very often, since most varmints in my neck of the woods weigh 3/4 ton! ...but more than a few small to medium feral pigs have fallen to well-placed shots.

Love my big-bores, but have always had a soft-spot for the tripple-two!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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DarylS
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Marrakai]
      #345361 - 27/09/20 01:26 AM

I don't own a .223, either. My Sako A1 is a super accurate rifle, but of course, varmint weight 24" barrel.
With 40gr. VLC's(obsolete Barnes)40gr. Varminators (Barnes HP) both 40gr. Plastic tips and all 52gr. and 53gr. HP's shoot sub 1/2" using a variety of powders.
I've never seen a more easy to find sub 1/2" rifle before. It rivals 6PPC's, but then, .222's still win the odd BR matches. It's best groups with match bullets have been sub .2" @ 100 meters.
Like yours Marrakai, it has a very tight chamber. It wears a 4200 Elite side focus. For a long time, it had wore a 4200 8-32 Elite, objective focus scope.
I think it's shy of 2,000rounds and still shoots bug holes.
I also have a .17Rem on a CZ 527 with a 25" Pac-Nor 3-groove bl. It is also a tack driver.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 977
Loc: France
Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Marrakai]
      #345362 - 27/09/20 01:27 AM

Much interesting Ripp, thank you very much for sharing this link with us; I have often considered adding a .222 Remington or 5,6x50R rifle to the rack in order to complement the .22 Hornet that I use for varmint shooting but I have until now managed to keep my compulsive buying disorder under control ! That's however a difficult situation and the risk is high that I will succumb one day.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Louis]
      #345383 - 27/09/20 11:27 AM

With your kind indulgence, here is a pic I dug out from 2014 showing a modest feral pig laid low with the diminutive .222 L-46.
Shows the rifle fairly well.



Funny story how I came by that Sako, might have to tell it here one day!

...and hope this photo doesn't bring on a fever, Louis!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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Louis
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Marrakai]
      #345387 - 27/09/20 07:26 PM

Very nice rifle Marrakai; I need one like that !
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Louis]
      #345388 - 27/09/20 10:05 PM

The 222 is a fantastic little cartridge. Very accurate, not too noisy, no recoil and very effective on small game.

I have a Steyr SL which is a superb little rifle which loves the Hornady 50 grain ammunition. A couple of mates of mine have Sako 85's and another a Tikka T3. They are all accurate and they all love the 222.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #345393 - 28/09/20 12:57 AM

That's a pleasant article.
I'm the third generation custodian of a fine set of .222 dies, although I currently do not have a rifle chambered for the cartridge.
I might have a short action around here somewhere, and there's got to be a barrel at the shop that could be persuaded to fit.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: tinker]
      #345396 - 28/09/20 02:35 AM

Do it John. You deserve it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39055
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Marrakai]
      #345417 - 28/09/20 02:29 PM

Quote:

With your kind indulgence, here is a pic I dug out from 2014 showing a modest feral pig laid low with the diminutive .222 L-46.
Shows the rifle fairly well.



Funny story how I came by that Sako, might have to tell it here one day!

...and hope this photo doesn't bring on a fever, Louis!




A stutzen Sako L46 .222 As well. Now that is different isn't it, most were normal stocked rifles weren't they?

Tony, you sh^t me off, you have all the most desired rifles! Every smart .222 owner wants a perfect Sako L46 .222!

Well done, please tell the story.

PS that rifle is wasted in the Top End, I could acquire it off you and use it every day in sad lands which have no buffalo or big boars, just rabbits, hares, foxes and hoppers ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (28/09/20 02:31 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Louis]
      #345418 - 28/09/20 02:43 PM

Quote:

Much interesting Ripp, thank you very much for sharing this link with us; I have often considered adding a .222 Remington or 5,6x50R rifle to the rack in order to complement the .22 Hornet that I use for varmint shooting but I have until now managed to keep my compulsive buying disorder under control ! That's however a difficult situation and the risk is high that I will succumb one day.
Louis




I will try to be an enabler.

Ustarted off shooting with a .410 side by sude shhotgun with hammers. The a hammered 12 gauge side by side. Also a Lithgow single shot .22 RF with open sights. All my Dad's firearms.

MY first rifle was an Ugly but super accurate Remington 788 in .222. With a Tasco 3-9x scope. Easily shot one hole groups. I used it on rabbits, hare, many foxes, some hoppers, a great many feral goats, some pigs and even a donkey. Not a good donkey choice.

Then acquired one, now two Mauser M03's and a .222 Remington barrel. Maybe a .223 would be more sensible for the one day global apocalypse if it could use mil ammo. But I prefer the .222. I use the M03 .222 as a single shot as the mag spring is stuffed. Needs replacement. I use this rifle now a lot and the Rem 788 has gathered dust for years. It needs to be used again. Using a tripod I could shoot a running hare with it almost.

I have a Martini-Cadet in .222 Rimmed. It NEEDS mounts so can be scoped. Have a handfull of brass and loaded cartridges for it supplied by the seller.

Lastly I have my Tikka 512SD combination barrel set in 12 gauge and .223 Remington. That rifle is accurate, using a lower powered variable scope so can shoot the shotgun using a scope as well.

I always wanted a .17 Remington since the old days of fox fur shooting. They seem to have died out in the press. I probably would go for a .17 Hornet of some sort instead. As they have enough power for the .17 calibre and are better for fur.

I'd love a 5.6x50mm Rimmed double rifle. Like Ahmed's, except for the price tag!

I used a 5.6x50R and .22 Mag double rifle made by "Frankonia" brand, owned by a German guy. It was very nice, accurate in the 5.6mm. Scope was too large but overall would make a nice rifle for small game hunting. I have an article and/or photos somewhere.



Tikka 512 SD in 12 gauge and .223 Remington

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=341307&an=&page=0&vc=1



The other three. The Martini-Cadet in .222 Rimmed. My first owned rifle a Remington 788 in .222 Rem, and one of my Mauser M03's with the .222 Rem barrel in place.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=342158&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (28/09/20 03:11 PM)


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: NitroX]
      #345421 - 28/09/20 05:27 PM

Quote:

most were normal stocked rifles weren't they?



John:
The full-wood stock was a popular option by all accounts.
Since acquiring mine, I have been paying attention and reckon I have seen more of them in Australia than the half-stock version over the past 1/4-century.
Not all were triple-twos, a couple were in 7x33 IIRC.
Having said that, there is a half-stock L-46 for sale right now on one of the internet gun sites.

Quote:

please tell the story



OK...
One day in the 1990s at Micket Creek Range I was walking from the firing-line back to my truck when I passed Kurt M_ at the boot of his car.
He was surrounded by a group of hopefuls in one of those off-the-record show-and-tell moments, but no-one was buying.
Shouldering my way in and craning my neck for a look, I spied the classic Riihimaki-marked sporter in question, lying on a picnic rug.
"Veery nice" I thought to myself. "How much?"
"Six" replied Kurt.
Ah, must be more to these early Sakos than meets the eye!
Certainly six grand was out of my league so I put the lovely little L-46 out of my mind and moved on.

A couple of years later Kurt brought the rifle to one of our Collector Club meetings and tossed it on the table with a 'For Sale' tag dangling from the trigger guard.
It looked even nicer than I remembered, so I caught his attention and asked "How much is it again?"

"Still six hundred" says Kurt...

I couldn't get my wallet out quick enough!!

At the time, looking through the scope was like holding a glass of milk up to my eye, but a quick trip to Rod Fielder restored the brilliant German optics and both scope and rifle have proven faultless ever since.

Everyone should own at least one triple-two!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39055
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Marrakai]
      #345426 - 28/09/20 07:45 PM

Quote:

"How much is it again?"

"Still six hundred" says Kurt...





Now you are more than annoying.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: NitroX]
      #345428 - 28/09/20 11:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"How much is it again?"

"Still six hundred" says Kurt...





Now you are more than annoying.




Well John.. I may annoy you as well.. I too have a Sako in .222..while not a full stock, it is in near perfect condition..

Will have to take a few pics and post them...

Have to say that full length stock is a beautiful rifle... Congrats on that one..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (29/09/20 03:21 AM)


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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: NitroX]
      #345432 - 29/09/20 04:50 AM

Marakai

Very elegant little Sako! I have two of the regular stock versions in .222, one a very early one with iron sights and the other scoped. I also have a Remington 760 pump in .222 Remington. The pump weighs about 1.5 lbs more than the Sako bolt rifles. The .222 Remington is a very sweet shooting cartridge.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: mckinney]
      #345452 - 29/09/20 10:26 PM

Quote:

Marakai

Very elegant little Sako! I have two of the regular stock versions in .222, one a very early one with iron sights and the other scoped. I also have a Remington 760 pump in .222 Remington. The pump weighs about 1.5 lbs more than the Sako bolt rifles. The .222 Remington is a very sweet shooting cartridge.




I had no idea Remington offered the 760 in .222

That's a handy little pump action ..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: NitroX]
      #345458 - 30/09/20 03:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

"How much is it again?"

"Still six hundred" says Kurt...





Now you are more than annoying.




Isn't THAT the truth.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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vykkagur
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Reged: 28/11/19
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Loc: Canada
Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Marrakai]
      #345467 - 30/09/20 08:36 AM

Quote:


OK...
One day in the 1990s at Micket Creek Range I was walking from the firing-line back to my truck when I passed Kurt M_ at the boot of his car.
He was surrounded by a group of hopefuls in one of those off-the-record show-and-tell moments, but no-one was buying.
Shouldering my way in and craning my neck for a look, I spied the classic Riihimaki-marked sporter in question, lying on a picnic rug.
"Veery nice" I thought to myself. "How much?"
"Six" replied Kurt.
Ah, must be more to these early Sakos than meets the eye!
Certainly six grand was out of my league so I put the lovely little L-46 out of my mind and moved on.

A couple of years later Kurt brought the rifle to one of our Collector Club meetings and tossed it on the table with a 'For Sale' tag dangling from the trigger guard.
It looked even nicer than I remembered, so I caught his attention and asked "How much is it again?"

"Still six hundred" says Kurt...

I couldn't get my wallet out quick enough!!

At the time, looking through the scope was like holding a glass of milk up to my eye, but a quick trip to Rod Fielder restored the brilliant German optics and both scope and rifle have proven faultless ever since.

Everyone should own at least one triple-two!






That's a story worth telling!

And a beautiful rifle too, by the way.


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3475
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: vykkagur]
      #345471 - 30/09/20 09:37 PM

Thanks for your comments all.

This certainly turned into an unashamed .222 appreciation fest!

...which I'm guessing was your original intention, Ripp?


Here's a bit of trivia for those who have never owned a full-stocked Sako:
The fore-end is two-piece, abutted under the barrel-band.
Now who would have predicted seriously sub-MOA all day long from a two-piece stock!!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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lancaster
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Marrakai]
      #345473 - 01/10/20 05:32 AM

in any case need something between a 223 rem and a 223 rem

think about for a long time, love the 222 but the 223 will be allways available.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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vykkagur
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: lancaster]
      #345477 - 01/10/20 01:00 PM

Quote:

in any case need something between a 223 rem and a 223 rem

think about for a long time, love the 222 but the 223 will be allways available.





The .222 has an enviable reputation for accuracy, as this thread demonstrates. The very similar .223 is, well....there. Just....there. It's virtually everywhere, but I don't hear anyone waxing poetic about its' tack-driving capabilities. I own neither, so I have to ask those of you much more knowledgeable than I with regard to the .222/.223: Is there really that much difference between the two in terms of accuracy?


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DarylS
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: vykkagur]
      #345483 - 01/10/20 01:14 PM

I have never heard of a .223 that can compete with run of the mill .222's. I do not know why,
except that perhaps most .223 shooters are not BR shooters, or - because the .223 is not being
used in BR contests, yet there are still some hold-outs shooting triple deuces.

Food for thought, though. I know there are guys with specially build AR's who are shooting sub 1/2"
at 100 yards with a variety of ctgs. from .223 to .17 Rem to .204 Rugers, but I have not heard of
.223's that can compete with varmint weight .222's that routinely shoot 1/4" and smaller at 100yards.
Mine still does.

Now, due to it's military use, it is possible the hunting and varmint type rifles chambered in .223 have
military-shaped chambers. What that means is likely attention to throats and lead angles that will increase
barrel life and possibly THOSE differences do not translate into tack-driving accuracy?
So, I don't know.


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vykkagur
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: DarylS]
      #345486 - 01/10/20 03:31 PM

Quote:

I have never heard of a .223 that can compete with run of the mill .222's. I do not know why,
except that perhaps most .223 shooters are not BR shooters, or - because the .223 is not being
used in BR contests, yet there are still some hold-outs shooting triple deuces.

Food for thought, though. I know there are guys with specially build AR's who are shooting sub 1/2"
at 100 yards with a variety of ctgs. from .223 to .17 Rem to .204 Rugers, but I have not heard of
.223's that can compete with varmint weight .222's that routinely shoot 1/4" and smaller at 100yards.
Mine still does.

Now, due to it's military use, it is possible the hunting and varmint type rifles chambered in .223 have
military-shaped chambers. What that means is likely attention to throats and lead angles that will increase
barrel life and possibly THOSE differences do not translate into tack-driving accuracy?
So, I don't know.






You may have hit the answer there, Daryl. It very well may be a matter of the chamber and not so much the round, just as chamber design is the driving force behind the much-vaunted long-range accuracy of a certain very popular round whose name shall not be mentioned....

If that's the case, I'd love to see someone "accurize" the chamber design of the .223 and a die design produced from that, sort of a ".223 BR". It's not so much that the world needs a new cartridge, so much as it's such a shame to let all those truckloads of .223 brass generated by the pew-pew boys go to waste.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: vykkagur]
      #345493 - 01/10/20 11:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have never heard of a .223 that can compete with run of the mill .222's. I do not know why,
except that perhaps most .223 shooters are not BR shooters, or - because the .223 is not being
used in BR contests, yet there are still some hold-outs shooting triple deuces.

Food for thought, though. I know there are guys with specially build AR's who are shooting sub 1/2"
at 100 yards with a variety of ctgs. from .223 to .17 Rem to .204 Rugers, but I have not heard of
.223's that can compete with varmint weight .222's that routinely shoot 1/4" and smaller at 100yards.
Mine still does.

Now, due to it's military use, it is possible the hunting and varmint type rifles chambered in .223 have
military-shaped chambers. What that means is likely attention to throats and lead angles that will increase
barrel life and possibly THOSE differences do not translate into tack-driving accuracy?
So, I don't know.






You may have hit the answer there, Daryl. It very well may be a matter of the chamber and not so much the round, just as chamber design is the driving force behind the much-vaunted long-range accuracy of a certain very popular round whose name shall not be mentioned....

If that's the case, I'd love to see someone "accurize" the chamber design of the .223 and a die design produced from that, sort of a ".223 BR". It's not so much that the world needs a new cartridge, so much as it's such a shame to let all those truckloads of .223 brass generated by the pew-pew boys go to waste.




I have several in each caliber however most of the .223's I have are AR's..with the exception of one..its a shorter barreled .223 Remington bolt.. I reload for it as I use it for P-dogs .. it is very accurate.. a one-holer if a do my job.. have not done anything to it from the factory.. just a very accurate little gun.. Having said that, I have never seen a .222 that wasn't accurate.. Most of my AR's are accurate enough for their intended purpose. In fact I use one a lot for calling in coyotes ..make for quick work if 2 or 3 come in at a time..

Interesting info above.. thank you for that..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: 222 Remington Rifle Cartridge Family Portrait [Re: Ripp]
      #345494 - 02/10/20 03:40 AM

I'm just grasping at straws here. A local guy had a Remington Varmint rifle chambered in .223, however it was barely a .6" to .750" rifle, big scope, off the bags at 100 meters. I don't know what his loads were, but he was a handloader.
He was shooting it at the range the day I was shooting groups from my CZ 527 in .22 Hornet. 3 successive groups on one page of targets with the Hornet, ran .105", .165" & .308. They were comprised of 2 different loads, with 3 different bullets, a 45gr. SP and two 40gr. HP's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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