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Carpetsahib
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: lancaster]
      #340840 - 07/05/20 07:29 AM

Does anyone have a drawing and/or information on the .318 WR version with a 90 degree shoulder. I have only read that there was such a beast, but info is scarce.

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #340841 - 07/05/20 07:54 AM

John, the Special Snap event is 8 rounds but you may only load 4 to start with regardless of magazine capacity.

Matt.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #340842 - 07/05/20 07:58 AM

Saw a picture once of a .318 with the same shoulder appearance as the .416 Rigby.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #340843 - 07/05/20 08:00 AM

John, you would be much better of starting with a new barrel. Alan Swan Barrels in Queensland and Lothar Walther of Germany make barrels in 0.330". Alan Swan barrels are very good and they are very well priced. They will do any length and profile you want. They are also very pleasant to deal with.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: lancaster]
      #340856 - 07/05/20 09:06 PM

Thanks Lancaster. People seem to be able to get barrels (I hope) so no need for an ex-machine gun barrel! I will have enough trouble getting a PTA (permit to acquire) I think without using a machine gun barrel.

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #340857 - 07/05/20 09:11 PM

Quote:

John, the Special Snap event is 8 rounds but you may only load 4 to start with regardless of magazine capacity.





No problem, not going to buy a SMLE conversion.

BTW can you use a magazine rifle, with a second magazine pre-charged?

Or do the second lot of four rounds need to be individually loaded?


Quote:

John, you would be much better of starting with a new barrel. Alan Swan Barrels in Queensland and Lothar Walther of Germany make barrels in 0.330". Alan Swan barrels are very good and they are very well priced. They will do any length and profile you want. They are also very pleasant to deal with.




Matt, that does seem to be the case. Since Sprinter Arms has gone, not sure if anyone is doing re-boring jobs anyway? Do you know? Sprinter in Hahndorf was close by years ago. Will have to see if either of those do supply them eg Swan.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #340858 - 07/05/20 09:13 PM

The other questions were on barrel length, plus what profile is the "norm"?

Quote:

What is the optimum barrel length? I assume 24 inch would be pretty fair and ideal for the ballistics and also usage in the field.

What barrel length did the usual length were the usual vintage Westley Richards .318 WRs? Many of the vintage rifles appear to have quite long barrels. This might be sometimes relative as the fore-ends are often shorter.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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Waidmannsheil
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #340859 - 07/05/20 09:20 PM

John, yes you can use a second magazine pre-charged with four rounds.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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4seventy
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #340873 - 08/05/20 08:58 AM

Quote:

The other questions were on barrel length, plus what profile is the "norm"?

Quote:

What is the optimum barrel length? I assume 24 inch would be pretty fair and ideal for the ballistics and also usage in the field.

What barrel length did the usual length were the usual vintage Westley Richards .318 WRs? Many of the vintage rifles appear to have quite long barrels. This might be sometimes relative as the fore-ends are often shorter.







Type A 318 WR

John here is a link to some Type A Mauser measurement details for the 318 (and others) which might be of interest, from the awesome Westley Richards 'The Explora' website.
If you search 318 on that site there are several rifles, both vintage and modern which are definitely worth checking out.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: 4seventy]
      #340877 - 08/05/20 07:42 PM

Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #340898 - 09/05/20 08:35 PM

The ZKK 600 in .30-06 I thought might be a project rifle I have decided to not progress. Good decades old ZKK rifle, for $900. Including fixed mounts and some scope.

But no pop up peep sight which I am looking for.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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pacecars
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #343957 - 02/08/20 11:09 PM

An original Westley Richards in .318 is high on the list of my grail guns. I would love to try wing shooting Cormorants with one!

Since I have never been to Africa can someone tell me if they actually check the headstamps on cases to verify if they match the rifle’s chambering?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: pacecars]
      #343983 - 03/08/20 05:27 PM

Quote:

An original Westley Richards in .318 is high on the list of my grail guns. I would love to try wing shooting Cormorants with one!

Since I have never been to Africa can someone tell me if they actually check the headstamps on cases to verify if they match the rifle’s chambering?




Never for me. Zimbabwe, South Africa and Namibia. In Namibia they did count the number of cartridges. Boofheads trying to be important ....

Other persons have said they have had them checked.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ripp
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #343995 - 04/08/20 01:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

An original Westley Richards in .318 is high on the list of my grail guns. I would love to try wing shooting Cormorants with one!

Since I have never been to Africa can someone tell me if they actually check the headstamps on cases to verify if they match the rifle’s chambering?




Never for me. Zimbabwe, South Africa and Namibia. In Namibia they did count the number of cartridges. Boofheads trying to be important ....

Other persons have said they have had them checked.




Never for me either with the exception of Cameroon.. they were nuts over there..biggest pain in the ass place I have ever hunted.. and corrupt beyond imagination..

The counting of ammo is not uncommon..even outside of Africa..Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Azerbaijan, Turkey ..all have counted ammo

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (04/08/20 01:52 AM)


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grandveneur
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: Ripp]
      #379293 - 12/09/23 04:01 PM

I have no experience with the cartridge 318 Westley Richards and don't want to criticize it. It is certainly a good cartridge, but due to the length of 60mm of it case, the caliber of 330/8,4mm and the load of a bullet weight of 250gr, at first glance I don't see a clear advantage for hunting compared to a cartridge 8x57IS, 8x60S or 8x64S, all cartridges that can be loaded with a 220gr bullet or even heavier. For the latter there are several factory loads, which doesn't seem to be the case for the cartridge 318 Westley Richards.

The cartridge 318 Westley Richards certainly has, as hunting in Africa is concerned, an aura that the others cartridges quoted do not have.

The same applies to the cartridge 333 Jeffery.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: grandveneur]
      #379294 - 12/09/23 04:29 PM

Quote:

the caliber of 330/8,4mm and the load of a bullet weight of 250gr, at first glance I don't see a clear advantage for hunting compared to a cartridge 8x57IS, 8x60S or 8x64S, all cartridges that can be loaded with a 220gr bullet or even heavier. For the latter there are several factory loads, which doesn't seem to be the case for the cartridge 318 Westley Richards.




Please elaborate on the heavier than 220 gr projectiles for .323/8mm.

I like to have 250 gr bullets for my 8x68S. Or heavier bullets than 220 gr. Woodleigh did made a 250 gr SP.

Ideally a matched SP and FMJ in the same weight 250, 240, even 220 gr. Well constructed SP and FMJ.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Waidmannsheil
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #379295 - 12/09/23 04:42 PM

John, I have some 250 grain Woodleigh's in 8mm if you are interested which I intend to sell.


Matt.

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #379298 - 12/09/23 04:58 PM

Quote:

John, I have some 250 grain Woodleigh's in 8mm if you are interested which I intend to sell.


Matt.




PM me. How many and how much? Thanks.

Hopefully Woodleigh remakes them again.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (12/09/23 05:00 PM)


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grandveneur
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #379304 - 12/09/23 09:43 PM

I actually did not want to start a discussion about reloading the cartridge 8x57 and similar. My main concern was the cartridge 318 Westley Richards and that someone demonstrating to me what advantages it offers compared to the other cartridges. A 30gr difference in bullet weight is certainly not relevant by hunting.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: grandveneur]
      #379308 - 13/09/23 12:14 AM

Sectional density is very relevant to pentration ability. There is a "sweet spot" for most calibres.

Always a marginal difference, but marginal differences add up.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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DarylS
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: NitroX]
      #379311 - 13/09/23 01:46 AM

In cup and lead core bullets, a sectional density of over 300, is/was normally considered optimal for the deepest penetration.
The 250gr. .330" bullet had an SD of well over 300, IIRC.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: DarylS]
      #379314 - 13/09/23 01:59 AM

Would be an easy peasey job to draw down .338 lead core bullets to .330 (or, come to think of it, whatever the groove actually was on an old rifle...are they ALWAYS spot on .330? Dunno.)

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kuduae
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: 9.3x57]
      #379321 - 13/09/23 02:50 AM

As I posted some years ago here:
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=329611&an=0&page=3#Post329611

Quote:

A question. Why is a 8x60S so impressive when compared to say a .30-06? Shorter case. Is powder capacity also lesser in the 8x60m or is it a blown out case? .323 (or .318 calibre, so in theory can use a heavier bullet than .30 calibres. But you can get .308 250 grs, just like you can get 250 gr 8mm. Lesser range of projectiles, and in particular less choice of premium projectiles.
So don't understand why it is much different from the 8x57, .30-06 etc
BTW I do like the idea of the 8x60S, but isn't it pretty much a 8mm/06 in usage?[quote/]

It may be annoying to an Anglophile, but the 8x60S, the old "Versailles treaty cartridge", is fully the equal of the venerated British .318 Rimless NE, comparing ballistics.
Kynoch now lists these muzzle velocities for their .318 loads, taken with a 28" test barrel:
180 gr bullet at 2700 fps
250 gr bullet at 2400 fps
Instrumental velocities, 5 m from the muzzle, of my 8x60S loads, from the 22" barrel of my Mannlicher-Schoenauer M1925:
180 gr Barnes TSX bullet,52 gr VV N140 at 2720 fps
250 gr Woodleigh bullet, 53 gr VV N160 at 2330 fps
Granted, the .318 bullet is larger by a mere .006". But I doubt any animal or hunter will note a difference in practical use.

Quote:

A question. Why is a 8x60S so impressive when compared to say a .30-06?[quote/]


Re.: Why is an "iconic" .318 WR so impressive when compared to say a "mundane" .30-06? Shorter case, less capacity, almost no bullet selection except 2 Woodleighs and 1 Prvi Partizan.
You are right, there is very little practical difference between all the cartridges you mentioned. But it's a matter of rifle provenance. Before WW2, just as English speaking hunters did not understand metric numbers (reread Taylor and Keith!), continantal Eurpeans did not understand the alien imperial ones like inches, grains or fps. Though German gunmakers made some rifles in .30-06 and .318 WR for export, such cartridges were virtually unknown in Germany. If you are looking for a 1920s – 30s bolt action sporting rifle of that performance class, an American one will be in .30-06 most likely, a British one in .318 WR and a German one in 8x60. The differences serve one purpose only: They provide topics for endless discussions among hunters on one being a marvel and the others about useless.

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lancaster
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: kuduae]
      #379322 - 13/09/23 04:11 AM

the 250 grains bullet is maybe the solution of the riddle. heavy bullets in small caliber giving excellent penetration what makes then the hype about it.

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DORLEAC
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Re: The Nearly Forgotten .318 Westley Richards [Re: lancaster]
      #379699 - 28/09/23 09:39 PM

Quite a while ago I made a .308WR for an American sportsman.
I have the best memories of this fabulous cartridge even if intrinsically, ballistically, it is no better than its German counterpart, the 8x60S.
Mauser delivered many Type A and Type B 8x60S rifles to Nairobi between the wars.
But the .318 is a class apart...at least in the mythology of the great era of African hunting.

Regards to all.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com













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