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Ripp
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27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.???
      #336927 - 23/01/20 09:27 PM

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2020/1/20/new-for-2020-27-nosler/

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (23/01/20 11:00 PM)


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Postman
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #336930 - 23/01/20 11:36 PM

End of the .270?

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!


Haven’t read the article yet. The above captures my first and immediate reaction.....and I don’t currently own a .270 win.


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Postman]
      #336931 - 24/01/20 12:01 AM

Quote:

End of the .270?

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!


Haven’t read the article yet. The above captures my first and immediate reaction.....and I don’t currently own a .270 win.




I added that to "juice up" the headline a bit...kinda like "Why I hate the 270"..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #336937 - 24/01/20 05:30 AM

Yeah - funny title. It's a .270 + 400fps - that's amazing ballistics but wasted "power" over the range most people should be shooting game & requires the total use of premium/expensive bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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3DogMike
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: DarylS]
      #336941 - 24/01/20 06:01 AM

Quote:

........It's a .270 + 400fps ......over the range most people should be shooting game........



A couple of observations:
1) Even Noslers own reloading data shows the .270 Win can get 2900+ FPS with 150 grain bullets.....yea, maybe factory loads get beaten by 400’/sec....maybe.
2) this new cartridge seems aimed at the crowd that fancies themselves “snipers” at game animals. Like any fad it will fade after awhile, hopefully sooner than later. (700-900 yard sniping is not an ethical way to “hunt” game in my opinion).
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

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- Anon

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DarylS
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: 3DogMike]
      #336945 - 24/01/20 08:26 AM

Exactly!

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: DarylS]
      #336964 - 24/01/20 02:06 PM

I think Nosler is just trying to sell more brass with minimal development cost.

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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: 3DogMike]
      #336971 - 24/01/20 04:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

........It's a .270 + 400fps ......over the range most people should be shooting game........



A couple of observations:
1) Even Noslers own reloading data shows the .270 Win can get 2900+ FPS with 150 grain bullets.....yea, maybe factory loads get beaten by 400’/sec....maybe.
2) this new cartridge seems aimed at the crowd that fancies themselves “snipers” at game animals. Like any fad it will fade after awhile, hopefully sooner than later. (700-900 yard sniping is not an ethical way to “hunt” game in my opinion).
- Mike




Agree--shooting animals at 8-900 yards or more is not what I consider hunting.. frankly really surprises me that Nosler come out with this.. the 28 Nosler, based on those I talk to is doing extremely well in both custom and factory built rifles.. the 27 will not match it ballistically.. so, ????

Don't really see it doing anything the 6.5PRC or others are already doing better..

Long range shooting and competitions are going to be around for a while.. it's still a very large and continually growing sport.. classes are full .. products keep coming out..and more and more long distance ranges are becoming available..one in my area is now available to 2000+ Have to be honest, I do love shooting "steel" at long distance..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (25/01/20 12:36 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #336984 - 25/01/20 03:58 AM

I agree - shooting steel at long range is fun. Our longest range for steel so far, is 1,200yards. We expect this summer, to have steel to just over 1,500yards (1,400 meters).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: DarylS]
      #336998 - 25/01/20 05:54 AM

Many in the gun world are "number chasers". The fact that a bullet going 3300 FPS and one going 3000 fFPS from the muzzle do the exact same job in the field and on game, can't be told apart is of no relevance to those doing the buying in the market matters not al all for those doing the marketing. The American market is often driven by numbers and not by realism.

Nosler's mission is now to "out Weatherby" Weatherby. And in so doing, they are making some cartridges that are horribly inefficient, but they show high numbers. And I am sure they will kill game, many times as well as cartridges that have been around for 85 to 100 years, but it's doubtful to me that they will do any better.
Why?
I have owned several supper mags in the past. Sold them all. My fastest "big game guns" were a 30/378 Weatherby and a 7MM STW and after killing several animals with then, and seeing how they worked just as well as a 30-06 I decided they was WAY harder on bore life and a lot more expensive to fire, so I sold them.

Those the worship at the alter of numbers will scream at my statement, but I see no reason why. I don't care if they want to burn 96 to 104 grains of powder with every shot and have target grade accuracy for only 400 round per barrel. It's their money. So I care not at all if they love huge shells with smaller bores. In fact, it actually very good for my business because I know about 15 of them in within about 200 miles of me that have me re-barrel their rifles every year and 2 of them have gone through as many as 3 barrels a year, and one of then 4 barrels a year. It's very good for business. Besides, in my experience so far, most of those that ascribe a near religious significance to their super-duper magnums have not actually killed 25 to 50 head of game with standard shells so they don't really know that what they get from their stupendous mags are about the same that you get on game shot with a standard 270, 30-06 or maybe a 300 Win or H&H mag. I do know. I have accounted for more game then I can count and most was killed with more "standard' cartridges, but probably about 40-50 were killed with magnums of 300 Win Mag and faster or 338 Win mag and larger. I do see a difference on elk and moose when I get to the 375H&H, but the 358 Norma, 340 Weatherby 300 Weatherby 30/378 Weatherby 7MM STW and a few wildcats bases on the 404 shell are all good in the field, but shooting bullets that hold together they don't drop elk, deer antelope bison or bears any better then a good 30-06 with a similar bullet. If you don't use a REAL good bullet in the super fast magnums they don't kill AS WELL as a 30-06 or even a 308 or standard 270 because the wounds are erratic and often shallow.

If my opinion if Nosler wants to do it right they need to introduce some longer heavier bullets and have barrels made with faster twists (as we see with this new 270) and NOT try for more speed, but go for the same speed as the older shell with a notable heavier bullet. A 270 Nosler firing a 180 grain or 190 grain bullet at 2900 through a barrel that will stabilize it and shoot it accurately would possibly be a cool gadget for the hunter. The number most gun-rag-readers look at first are always about velocity. That's not really going to serve a hunter as well as better BC numbers. Wind drift and drops are more important then muzzle speed by a long ways. Many of the newer shooters today are finally starting to learn this, but with super long for caliber bullets comes other issues, all of which could be solved, but the foundation for such performance should be the BULLET, not a gun or shell. If Nosler was to bring out it's line of shells, but FIRST bring out barrels rifled about 15% to 20% faster for bullets that average 15 to 25% heavier then what is currently "the heaviest" per caliber---- I believe they would give something that actually may be a benefit to the market. Super speed is NOT new. The Germans and the French were experimenting with rifles and cartridges 100 years ago that were around 4000 FPS (one German maker in 1924 had a shell that went 4650 FPS with a 236 grain bullet, but bore life was 13 rounds) and all gave up because of poor bore life and the inability to make a bullet that did the job at impacts from the muzzle all the way out to 2000 yards. Bullets that hit at 3900 FPS can't be made with lead cores and be expected to work well at impacts of 1700 fps too. But the invention of solid expanding bullets could possible do the trick. The ones I would like to see with have a nose cavity filled with soft lead so the impacts of speeds from 3200 all the way down to about 1300 would still expand. the down side is expense. Design has to work, but also has to sell, and bullet that sell for $200 to $500 each mean only millionaires can afford to become good marksmen with them at ranges that the super high BC mean anything.

Physics are still physics and that is what destroys the intent of gun and ammo makers. It's this little thing called reality. So ads and articles are made up to tell some of the story and make VERY sure the rest of the story is not mentioned.

If and when Nosler (or anyone else) can make a 25 cent bullet 20% heavier then "industry standards" that will not blow up on heavy bone when shot at 20 feet and yet will still expand at least to 40% over original diameter when striking only lungs at 1500 yards, the whole game will change. (I am not just being abrasive here because if ANYONE can do this, it's probably Nosler) Bullets of wonderful capabilities exist now, but at the price the ask I can't afford to fire 500 to 1500 a year through 6-9 rifles apiece to keep my skill level up to what I think it should be. Shots to about 500-600 yards do not need any new bullet at all. So I am totally satisfied with what I can get now and "new and improved" are not even something that would catch my interest yet because they are answers to a question that doesn't exist. Super long range bullet that possesses the accuracy to hit small targets at ranges "way out there" and still not blow up at the ranges I kill 99% of the game I hunt, (especially when I consider MOST game I kill is at 80 yards and less, with probably 1/2 of those being 40 and less) and yet will not let me down if I ever wanted to fire at game at 1000 yards. That same bullet must expand on a lung shot at those ranges too, and I have to be able to buy them in 26 cal 27 cal 7MM cal, 30 cal and 33 8 cal and be able to buy them at a price I can afford when I buy them 1000 at a time for all those caliber except 30. 30s I buy 5000 at a time. I don't see that happening any time soon. But I sure would love to be wrong about that statement.

Until then, I'll personally let the "buying public" spend their money to be the guinea pigs, and I'll just stick with my old 270s, my 30-06s my 308s, my 8X57, 300 H&H, my 9.3X62 and 375H&H. In this line the 270 Winchester and 300H&H are the youngest and most modern. Heck these 2 youngsters are not even 100 yet. (only 95)

In my opinion (which is not going to be listened to ) Muzzle Velocities of around 3200 FPS max should be held, but longer bullets, and barrels to shoot them well, would be the way to go. Not just taking bullets of a design 50-85 years old and making them go 300-500 FPS faster. That doesn't really help anyone in the field to any real extent, and it is very hard on bores and pocketbooks.


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Rule303
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #337008 - 25/01/20 09:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

........It's a .270 + 400fps ......over the range most people should be shooting game........



A couple of observations:
1) Even Noslers own reloading data shows the .270 Win can get 2900+ FPS with 150 grain bullets.....yea, maybe factory loads get beaten by 400’/sec....maybe.
2) this new cartridge seems aimed at the crowd that fancies themselves “snipers” at game animals. Like any fad it will fade after awhile, hopefully sooner than later. (700-900 yard sniping is not an ethical way to “hunt” game in my opinion).
- Mike




Agree--shooting animals at 8-900 yards or more is not what I consider hunting.. frankly really surprises me that Nosler come out with this.. the 28 Nosler, based on those I talk to is doing extremely well in both custom and factory built rifles.. the 27 will not match it ballistically.. so, ????

Don't really see it doing anything the 6.5PRC or others..

Long range shooting and competitions are going to be around for a while.. it's still a very large and continually growing sport.. classes are full .. products keep coming out..and more and more long distance ranges are becoming available..one in my area is now available to 2000+ Have to be honest, I do love shooting "steel" at long distance..




I would love to have a range handy where I could shoot to 1000mts hell even 500. I would love to be proficient again out to 600mts. However i don't think people will buy a 270 cal to do this when they already have the same case in 7mm, and all the 6.5's that are about. I am not bagging the 270 as I have a 270 win and 6.8SPC

If I didn't have a 270 and was getting one I would probably look at the Nosler just for something different.

Just changed the 100mts to 1000mts. Fat thumbs

Edited by Rule303 (26/01/20 08:39 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Rule303]
      #337051 - 26/01/20 02:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

........It's a .270 + 400fps ......over the range most people should be shooting game........



A couple of observations:
1) Even Noslers own reloading data shows the .270 Win can get 2900+ FPS with 150 grain bullets.....yea, maybe factory loads get beaten by 400’/sec....maybe.
2) this new cartridge seems aimed at the crowd that fancies themselves “snipers” at game animals. Like any fad it will fade after awhile, hopefully sooner than later. (700-900 yard sniping is not an ethical way to “hunt” game in my opinion).
- Mike




Agree--shooting animals at 8-900 yards or more is not what I consider hunting.. frankly really surprises me that Nosler come out with this.. the 28 Nosler, based on those I talk to is doing extremely well in both custom and factory built rifles.. the 27 will not match it ballistically.. so, ????

Don't really see it doing anything the 6.5PRC or others..

Long range shooting and competitions are going to be around for a while.. it's still a very large and continually growing sport.. classes are full .. products keep coming out..and more and more long distance ranges are becoming available..one in my area is now available to 2000+ Have to be honest, I do love shooting "steel" at long distance..




I would love to have a range handy where I could shoot to 100mts hell even 500. I would love to be proficient again out to 600mts. However i don't think people will buy a 270 cal to do this when they already have the same case in 7mm, and all the 6.5's that are about. I am not bagging the 270 as I have a 270 win and 6.8SPC

If I didn't have a 270 and was getting one I would probably look at the Nosler just for something different.




Something different?? That's crazy talk...

NO, NO, just stick with the regular one.. Why would you want to try anything different for crying out loud???.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #337070 - 26/01/20 08:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

........It's a .270 + 400fps ......over the range most people should be shooting game........



A couple of observations:
1) Even Noslers own reloading data shows the .270 Win can get 2900+ FPS with 150 grain bullets.....yea, maybe factory loads get beaten by 400’/sec....maybe.
2) this new cartridge seems aimed at the crowd that fancies themselves “snipers” at game animals. Like any fad it will fade after awhile, hopefully sooner than later. (700-900 yard sniping is not an ethical way to “hunt” game in my opinion).
- Mike




Agree--shooting animals at 8-900 yards or more is not what I consider hunting.. frankly really surprises me that Nosler come out with this.. the 28 Nosler, based on those I talk to is doing extremely well in both custom and factory built rifles.. the 27 will not match it ballistically.. so, ????

Don't really see it doing anything the 6.5PRC or others..

Long range shooting and competitions are going to be around for a while.. it's still a very large and continually growing sport.. classes are full .. products keep coming out..and more and more long distance ranges are becoming available..one in my area is now available to 2000+ Have to be honest, I do love shooting "steel" at long distance..




I would love to have a range handy where I could shoot to 100mts hell even 500. I would love to be proficient again out to 600mts. However i don't think people will buy a 270 cal to do this when they already have the same case in 7mm, and all the 6.5's that are about. I am not bagging the 270 as I have a 270 win and 6.8SPC

If I didn't have a 270 and was getting one I would probably look at the Nosler just for something different.




Something different?? That's crazy talk...

NO, NO, just stick with the regular one.. Why would you want to try anything different for crying out loud???.






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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Rule303]
      #337077 - 26/01/20 01:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

........It's a .270 + 400fps ......over the range most people should be shooting game........



A couple of observations:
1) Even Noslers own reloading data shows the .270 Win can get 2900+ FPS with 150 grain bullets.....yea, maybe factory loads get beaten by 400’/sec....maybe.
2) this new cartridge seems aimed at the crowd that fancies themselves “snipers” at game animals. Like any fad it will fade after awhile, hopefully sooner than later. (700-900 yard sniping is not an ethical way to “hunt” game in my opinion).
- Mike




Agree--shooting animals at 8-900 yards or more is not what I consider hunting.. frankly really surprises me that Nosler come out with this.. the 28 Nosler, based on those I talk to is doing extremely well in both custom and factory built rifles.. the 27 will not match it ballistically.. so, ????

Don't really see it doing anything the 6.5PRC or others..

Long range shooting and competitions are going to be around for a while.. it's still a very large and continually growing sport.. classes are full .. products keep coming out..and more and more long distance ranges are becoming available..one in my area is now available to 2000+ Have to be honest, I do love shooting "steel" at long distance..




I would love to have a range handy where I could shoot to 1000mts hell even 500. I would love to be proficient again out to 600mts. However i don't think people will buy a 270 cal to do this when they already have the same case in 7mm, and all the 6.5's that are about. I am not bagging the 270 as I have a 270 win and 6.8SPC

If I didn't have a 270 and was getting one I would probably look at the Nosler just for something different.

Just changed the 100mts to 1000mts. Fat thumbs




I was wondering when I read that.. thought man, he must live right in town to not be able to shoot to 100 mts...

I find shooting long distance very interesting .. there are so many variables coming into play.. one of the greatest being wind.. the science of reading the wind, not just where your at but also where the target is.. 1000, 1400 or 1800 yards/mts down the lane..

And yes, agree with your comment.. IMHO, the 6.5's will outshine the 27 in the long distance arena.. for one, the 26 Nosler to start the show if you want to go by mere numbers.. personally becoming more and more of a fan of the 6.5PRC... for 800 and above it really takes over vs the CM... Even more so for longer distances is the 28 N--shooting heavy for caliber bullets 175 to 190 gr.. amazing long distance ballistics..

--------------------
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tinker
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #337078 - 26/01/20 04:27 PM

Quote:



I find shooting long distance very interesting ..
*Snip*
...Even more so for longer distances is the 28 N--shooting heavy for caliber bullets 175 to 190 gr.. amazing long distance ballistics..




The BMG is a Whopper and components are easy to get.
Ed Hubel's 416 HE has been good for the ELR guys.
Really fantastic ballistics waaay out there.

But yes, for solid long range results these new cartridges via factory components in relatively lightweight rifles are good. Really good.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: tinker]
      #337086 - 27/01/20 01:29 AM

Quote:

Quote:



I find shooting long distance very interesting ..
*Snip*
...Even more so for longer distances is the 28 N--shooting heavy for caliber bullets 175 to 190 gr.. amazing long distance ballistics..




The BMG is a Whopper and components are easy to get.
Ed Hubel's 416 HE has been good for the ELR guys.
Really fantastic ballistics waaay out there.

But yes, for solid long range results these new cartridges via factory components in relatively lightweight rifles are good. Really good.




Yes..I read and saw an article a few months back..Tom B.of GUNS AND AMMO fame,.was making consistent hits at 2000 yrds with the 300PRC... 1.25 MILES is getting out there..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (27/01/20 02:59 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #337090 - 27/01/20 06:13 AM

Each to his own. Our 1,400 meter range is far enough, for me
but can "see" there being a desire or want to shoot further.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: DarylS]
      #337093 - 27/01/20 09:12 AM

Quote:

Each to his own. Our 1,400 meter range is far enough, for me
but can "see" there being a desire or want to shoot further.




Have to admit.. after doing 1400, have a desire to do the 1760, 1 mile shot when the opportunity presents itself.. .. and yes, 2000 has a nice round number ring to it..

It is amazing isn't it how far people are shooting, how equipment has advanced to keep up with this sport, or at least make it more possible for a larger majority of people..

When at the school, I asked what they felt was the bigger contributor. Without a pause equipment was stated every time by every instructor.. I remember the day when 400 was considered a longer shot...

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rigbymauser
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #337150 - 29/01/20 05:57 AM

People who always wanted a fast .270cal suddenly rush to buy the .27 Nosler. I wonder if the knew the .270 Weatherby has been in town since 1943?..

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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: rigbymauser]
      #337159 - 29/01/20 07:50 AM

Quote:

People who always wanted a fast .270cal suddenly rush to buy the .27 Nosler. I wonder if the knew the .270 Weatherby has been in town since 1943?..




OR, the 270WSM..which would be my choice over the 270 Win..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #337175 - 29/01/20 09:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

People who always wanted a fast .270cal suddenly rush to buy the .27 Nosler. I wonder if the knew the .270 Weatherby has been in town since 1943?..




OR, the 270WSM..which would be my choice over the 270 Win..




Had one, got rid of it. I found with the WSM cases the smaller the cal the harder they were to resize to fit the chamber. As the cal got larger the easier to resize and the less resizing needed. Needed a small base die for the 270WSM or a sloppier chamber.

Nosler over the Weatherby simply because of cost of the case and no belt. I am getting picky in my old age.


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Rule303]
      #337176 - 29/01/20 11:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

People who always wanted a fast .270cal suddenly rush to buy the .27 Nosler. I wonder if the knew the .270 Weatherby has been in town since 1943?..




OR, the 270WSM..which would be my choice over the 270 Win..




Had one, got rid of it. I found with the WSM cases the smaller the cal the harder they were to resize to fit the chamber. As the cal got larger the easier to resize and the less resizing needed. Needed a small base die for the 270WSM or a sloppier chamber.

Nosler over the Weatherby simply because of cost of the case and no belt. I am getting picky in my old age.




Interesting... had not heard that before.. Good to know.. but I won't be getting one so not a problem.. I always felt of the WSM rounds that came out, IF I was to ever buy one, the 270 offered the best ballistics..

Agree with the Nosler over the Weatherby case... NO belt as well.. I really like the 28 Nosler..have been using it now for the past 2 years.. deer and elk.. works very well.. has become my go to for shooting anything in Montana rifle..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #337178 - 30/01/20 04:07 AM

Quote:


It is amazing isn't it how far people are shooting, how equipment has advanced to keep up with this sport, or at least make it more possible for a larger majority of people..




This, in itself REALLY frightens our Liberals up here. That is why Trudeau Senior's government attempted to classify all rifles with scopes as military-type, but failed. I expect the Idiot Junior Turdeau to attempt something along that line as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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tinker
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: szihn]
      #337184 - 30/01/20 06:46 AM

Quote:



*snip*
...if Nosler wants to do it right they need to introduce some longer heavier bullets and have barrels made with faster twists (as we see with this new 270) and NOT try for more speed, but go for the same speed as the older shell with a notable heavier bullet

*snip*

...longer bullets, and barrels to shoot them well, would be the way to go. Not just taking bullets of a design 50-85 years old and making them go 300-500 FPS faster...





Pretty much this, and generate a range of exceptional bullets to maximize the effect - which *is* something that Nosler is working on with the Accubond Long Range bullets. I'd like to see more variety. More long punch-style solids like the CEB solids, the Woodleigh Hydro, and the North Fork flat and cup point solids would be nice.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: tinker]
      #337192 - 30/01/20 12:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:



*snip*
...if Nosler wants to do it right they need to introduce some longer heavier bullets and have barrels made with faster twists (as we see with this new 270) and NOT try for more speed, but go for the same speed as the older shell with a notable heavier bullet

*snip*

...longer bullets, and barrels to shoot them well, would be the way to go. Not just taking bullets of a design 50-85 years old and making them go 300-500 FPS faster...





Pretty much this, and generate a range of exceptional bullets to maximize the effect - which *is* something that Nosler is working on with the Accubond Long Range bullets. I'd like to see more variety. More long punch-style solids like the CEB solids, the Woodleigh Hydro, and the North Fork flat and cup point solids would be nice.




I had heard some years back, like 6, that Nosler had an issue with their LONG RANGE Accubonds. So because of that I have never dabbled with them..Probably ignorant for me to think that way and should try them now..I would think they have it figured out.. have always liked Nosler products

As for bullet that will stand up to speed, Swifts have never let me down in that regard.. Barnes Tripe Shocks also however I like the mushroomed Swifts more..each to their own.. The regular Accubonds will do o.k. with mv of 3100 or under.. did not have good experiences with close shots on higher velocities --3300 and above..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #338316 - 25/02/20 12:24 AM

https://www.fieldandstream.com/story/guns/brand-new-nosler-27-revives-the-277/

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: Ripp]
      #338321 - 25/02/20 01:26 AM



What's up with that brass? Are the cases buldged?

I assume new brass so a manufacturing mark? Or FLS from new brass?

Ugly rifle as well.

Quote:

derives from the .404 Jefferies case




If writers could educate themselves on nomenclature and show evidence they actually know something about the subject.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (25/02/20 01:28 AM)


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szihn
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: NitroX]
      #338324 - 25/02/20 02:29 AM

In the American market the idea is that all things need to be "new and improved" And for whatever reason, many American will buy anything new. In MOST cases it's new but not actually an improvement once we see the mission statement for the product. Faster doesn't always mean better and in many cases in the past, it's meant worse because the shell is developed, but no big step forward in the design of the bullets. Time will tell.

If the new shell is mated with a 1-8 twist and Nosler comes out with 180 grain bullets we may see something here, but considering the 7MM Mag has been made to use 175 grain bullet since 1961, and I have killed many an animal with both the standard 270 Winchester, the 270 Short Mag and the 7MM Mags (Remington and Weatherby both) and so far I have yet to see ANY difference in the way 7 mags kill and 270s kill (And I do mean NONE AT ALL)
I expect the Nosler boys will not set the world on fire with sales for long. I will want to see if I am wrong, and will be totally happy to admit it if I am.
But a "faster 270" was no big deal with the 270 Weather Magnum or the 270 Short Magnum and I seriously doubt it's going to be much of a deal with the 270 Nosler.

Will it kill the old 270? Well lets see.......

The 264 Win Mag was supposed to kill the 270. it didn't.
The 308 was supposed to kill the 30-06. It didn't.
The 30 TC was supposed to kill both the 308 and the 30-06. It didn't.
The 280 Remington was supposed to kill the 270. It didn't.
The Lazaroni cartridges were supposed to kill everything else. They didn't.
The Weatherby shells were supposed to kill the competition bore by bore. They didn't
The 300 Ultra mag was supposed to kill all other 300s. It didn't.
The Winchester 270 short mag, 7MM short mag and 300 short mags along with the Remington SAUMs, Ruger Compact mags and so forth--- were supposed to kill all the earlier magnums of the same bore sizes. They didn't.
The 375 Ruger and the 376 Steyr were supposed to kill the 375H&H. They didn't.
The 458 Lott was supposed to kill the 458 Winchester. It didn't.

And I may have missed a few. But ALL of these have been in my life time, and ALL of them were shoved hard by the gun-rags to try to make the buying public jump on the bad wagon and sell a lot of products for the companies that brought them out. In every case some frenzied buyers were quick to believe the tripe told to us all by the authors writing for the gun-rags, all of which get paid to say good things by advertising companies. Now and then a new shell comes out that has real merit, but not often. And those that do have something of true value sometimes do not become commercial successes.

SO when a given set of 50 to 70 year old ballistics are re-packaged into a new shell and then fit into a gun that it would not fit into before we often have a lot of merit to look at.
Like giving 257 Roberts ballistics to us and fitting into an AR15 (called the 6.8 SPC)
Or fitting 300 Win Mag ballistics into an M14 NATO length mag.(called the 300 Win Short mag)
Or fitting 6.5 Jap ballistics into an AR15 (called the 6.5 Grendel)
But a bolt action is not likely to be one of those cases.

Fitting a new shell into a bolt action with ballistics that are not all that new and do nothing in the real world we have not had available to us for 50 to 100 years is only going to impress those that are easily impressed, and soon enough the 97% of the shooters in the market will just ignore them and leave the companies and gun-rags to do the next job...........do it again.

Sell the next New and Improved do-dad to those that are easily impressed.

Not that there is a thing wrong with any of this either..........there is not! Other then one fact---
The outright lie that their new bla bla bla is going to kill off those shells that fit hundreds of millions of rifles all ready out there.....and that "intelligent shooters" (ooooo awhaaaa......look at how pretty the emperors new clothes are) will simply throw out their old guns because their 100 year old shell with it's 100% success rate just died over night because of the invention of the .297-superduperimprovedneverbeforeseenorimagined magnum.........or some other such thing.
Like maybe the Nosler shells.

I'll smile and watch, but I'll spend my money on powder and primers and the bullets I like to use in my old, worthless, can't hit a thing or kill anything, and should now be "dead" guns that have served me perfectly for all my life.

Edited by szihn (25/02/20 09:22 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: szihn]
      #338327 - 25/02/20 04:47 AM

It's all about marketing hype and creating something that will make money.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: DarylS]
      #338333 - 25/02/20 07:57 AM

The 7x57 was dead but is making a resurgence in select circles.

The .270 and .30-06 are US classics and will outlast the pretenders as well.

Cartridges that were effective a hundred years ago are still as effective today.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Marrakai
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: NitroX]
      #338342 - 25/02/20 09:42 AM

At least with these new rifles, you no longer have to carry a camp saw.
You can just remove the scope, turn it upside-down and use it to cut firewood.

I'm all for 'cutting down' on having to carry extra gear...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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DarylS
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: NitroX]
      #338348 - 25/02/20 11:32 AM

Quote:



What's up with that brass? Are the cases buldged?






No bulges, just marks from a tray or some-such.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: 27 Nosler....end of the 270 Win.??? [Re: NitroX]
      #338351 - 25/02/20 02:00 PM

Quote:

The 7x57 was dead but is making a resurgence in select circles.

The .270 and .30-06 are US classics and will outlast the pretenders as well.

Cartridges that were effective a hundred years ago are still as effective today.




Don't think anyone has stated they are not effective.. however, there is more than one way to skin a cat..

I remember the same BS being said about your favorite cartridge the 6.5CM when it arrived on the shooting scene.. naysayers everywhere finding fault like there was a reward for it.. WELL, those chicken little's were wrong.. The 6.5CM is here to stay.. thousands sold per year for LR competitions as well as hunting..offered in as many rifles or more than the 270 or '06.. not that there is anything wrong with those.. Also worth mentioning is the fact the 6.5CM has been adopted by a few branches of the US Gov.

Contrary to much being spun out of control, there have been improvements in cartridge design, efficiency, scopes being currently offered, bullets, powders, rangefinders, etc. all because these LR competitions have started.. with a lot of people enjoying shooting firearms and just plain having fun..

As competitive as the LR shooting comps. are, do you really think if there was a cartridge out there that offered something better than what they are currently using they would not use it?? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you as well.. Based on this logic alone, that addresses several other comments made about the "good old cartridges"..

As to marketing new products, the last I checked, unless your a Bernie Sanders supporter, THAT is how business works.. you look for new clients.. you want to sell a product.. its crazy but capitalism kinda works that way.. if the product is bullshit, the market will decide that.. not by someone going on about how great the old cartridges are, were and will be.. If they were so great they would be used now.. but, they're not..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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