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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: Rule303]
      #330106 - 15/07/19 12:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I consider the idea that "one needs a short barreled rifle in the brush" to be a gun writer myth. As a person that often hunts with a long barreled muzzleloader, I have never had any difficulties. To me it is all about balance, with no scope a long barreled gun can be a wonderful thing.




My perspective is that of a hound-hunter.
It is a very active style of hunting that frequently requires movement through heavy vegetation along game-trails not designed for human progress.

I acquired a carbine length 1895 Marlin for fun, more than anything else. At that time, my serious bush rifles were a a Sako A3 in .300WM and a Browning A-Bolt in .375H&H. Both were more than adequate for Sambar and more versatile for the occasional longer shot, but when I carried the Marlin for the first time, I rapidly came to appreciate the ease with which I could carry it on a sling without the additional barrel length snagging on every limb that i’d ducked my head to pass under.

Regards......Peter.




My findings to Pete. The little Win model 94 and the Valmet hunter were easier to get through the thick vegetation with and handier to use. Carrying a 25" barrel CZ550 through the jess in Zim required it to be slung barrel down, even then it was catching. Was it a major problem, no, just a nuisance even when carried in the hand.




The above is very true and can not be denied.. good analogy..

I too have a Marlin in 45-70..short, handy and powerful enough to handle anything I stumble into in the wild.. at least in NA..when my family is along for a weekend outdoors, that is my go-to camp gun.. along with a few handguns and AR's..

Mine--without a few additions I may have added
https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895sbl


--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (15/07/19 12:47 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39055
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Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #330119 - 15/07/19 03:14 AM

Quote:

I consider the idea that "one needs a short barreled rifle in the brush" to be a gun writer myth. As a person that often hunts with a long barreled muzzleloader, I have never had any difficulties. To me it is all about balance, with no scope a long barreled gun can be a wonderful thing.




Glad to see several people have commented on this comment ie " "one needs a short barreled rifle in the brush" to be a gun writer myth."

Not a gun writers myth at all.

I've been several times in thick bush hunting conditions. Sometimes as thick as end of barrel visibility.

A brush hunting rifle has a number of characteristics.

A larger calibre, for the game size. Not essential but a larger calibre size creates a bigger wound channel and is a better killer. Relative to the ga,e size of course. But the .30's and bigger are ideal, and the 9.3's are held in high repute for medium game effectiveness.

Shorter range shots are often the norm. Long range shots are very rare. So larger calibre, smaller case cartridges can well work. A shorter case also means many actions will cycle a new round faster.

Often a brush rifle can double as a running game rifle. Such as a driven game rifle. As a brush rifle might need to be usuable of frequently running game. Both types of rifle need to be able to fire additional shots quickly. If a miss occurs or even worse a wounded animal, the second shot needs to be there quickly. I personally have found it to be very careful when shooting at new game with the second barrel of a double. If you wound an animal, there is no additional shot immediately available. For driven game, two shots only might be considered by some a severe handicap, when the driven game came running through hot and fast.

Quick additional available. Some driven game hunters think a normal bolt action hopelessly incapable and too slow. And insist on these new fangle bolts action like the Blaser and similar where the bolt action is faster. The pump actions, lever actions and semi autos where legal would all fit the bill as well. Lesser need for a brush rifle, but also relevant.

Shorter and handier rifle. Possibly shorter barrel. A place where a double rifle is superb, the longer barrels in a shorter rifle. But pushing through bush with a very loing barrel and rifle IS a major pain, and also harder to bring the rifle into action when required. Snags and stuff getting in the way, shorter is better.

When I detail what a hunter's armoury should include I ALWAYS include a brush rifle in the line up. Instead of the "gun writers" habit of listing every and any cartridge/calibre, instead focus on purpose of use and type of use.
For example:
a brush hunting rifle for medium game, handy rifle, faster working, perhaps shorter, sighted suitable for quick and closer shooting;
a mountain hunting rifle, effective at longer ranges and lighter in weight;
plains game rifle, might be the same or similar to a mountain rifle, but can be heavier;
small game rifle, flat shooting but does not damge meat excessively;
big game rifle, .375 and bigger;
stopper rifle, big bore calibre with an oomph! Might be the same as the big game rifle.

Back to topic. A lever action COULD BE ANY of these, except the stopper rifle, unless it is thin skinned such as lion, bear, tiger etc. Rarely is it a mountain rifle, but as I said in an earlier post, my BLR in .308 could do the job.

Lever actions are often severely limited by the tubular magazines meaning aerodynamically impaired projectiles have to be used. And also impaired by the need for shorter cartridges to be used, if longer range shooting is required. Some designs get around both these impairments.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #330120 - 15/07/19 03:19 AM

Quote:

The 50 Alaskan has also taken a caribou. I had a scope on it for this hunt but that has now been replaced with a receiver sight. So yes, I do like lever actions.






Nice caribou. And I am sure it is a pleasure to hunt one, traditionally with a "wild west" rifle as well. Well done.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #330121 - 15/07/19 03:23 AM

Quote:

Here's a better picture of the Alaskan. With a big flat nosed hard cast bullet there aren't too many critters it couldn't handle. With the longer barrel it balances perfectly.





Very nice rifle. Sounds like a very effective cartridge.

Daryl mentioned some BP ballistics, but can you provide some info on your smokeless loads? I am not aware of what a .50/110 does with what projectiles and velocities, so am interested.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #330122 - 15/07/19 03:25 AM

Quote:

I have a number of them, Winchester, marlin and savage. Took a 1899 savage chambered in 303 savage on my last caribou hunt. It did well.






Another good one.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: CptCurl]
      #330123 - 15/07/19 03:27 AM

Quote:

I'll spice up this thread with a few photos.

This is the first post of a thread I started over on the Smith & Wesson forums back on December 22, 2015.



A Couple of .32-20s at the Range Today.

I had a nice afternoon at the range today. During part of the time I was shooting a couple of guns chambered in .32-20.

The Winchester dates to 1902. The Smith & Wesson is only slightly younger. It shipped in December 1909.







Never thoiught of the .32/20 as a revolver cartridge, but of course it is.

Was it popular "back in the day"? For what?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: cordite]
      #330132 - 15/07/19 09:26 AM

Quote:

Here's a better picture of the Alaskan. With a big flat nosed hard cast bullet there aren't too many critters it couldn't handle. With the longer barrel it balances perfectly.





Cordite this and that long barrelled savage of yours just look right.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: Rule303]
      #330133 - 15/07/19 10:51 AM

Smith & Wesson made quite a few revolvers chambered for .32-20, and Colt offered that chamber in its Single Action Army and Bisley revolvers. I'm not sure whether Colt offered a double action revolver in that caliber.

The same was true for the .38-40 and the .44-40 (although Smith & Wesson revolvers in these calibers are quite rare).

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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cordite
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Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 341
Loc: NW Montana
Re: An Ode to the Lever Action Rifle [Re: CptCurl]
      #330159 - 16/07/19 05:09 AM

"Daryl mentioned some BP ballistics, but can you provide some info on your smokeless loads? I am not aware of what a .50/110 does with what projectiles and velocities, so am interested."

The 50 Alaskan is a medium capacity case that holds 134 gr of water compared to 108 gr in the 50-70 or 183 gr in the 500 nitro 3 inch.

You can reach 2000 fps with a 500 grain bullet but in a light lever action rifle that is pretty brutal in the recoil department. About 61 grains of imr4198 will do the trick. I prefer running 42 to 47 grains of 4198 with velocities in the 1600 to 1700 fps range. That is really the best place to be running a flat nosed cast bullet. The caribou in the picture was shot in the left flank going away and the bullet exited the chest and lodged about half its depth in the eye socket.

Edited by cordite (16/07/19 05:15 AM)


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