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Ripp
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Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
The Creedmoor Explodes..
      #318172 - 17/07/18 12:18 PM

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/the-creedmoor-explodes/

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Posts: 4896
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Ripp]
      #318180 - 17/07/18 07:52 PM

Nasty. I hope the manufacture of the barrel was reamed a new one................pun intended.

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Wayne59
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Rule303]
      #318182 - 17/07/18 09:19 PM

I noticed that there was no mention of who made the rifle. I also did not see a list of qualifications that show the author is capable of making these kind of accusations. I am not saying he is wrong but do think these people should weight till all the facts are in before running there mouths.

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DoubleD
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #318184 - 17/07/18 11:28 PM

Hum, a wild supposition. If the chamber is oval, then the fired brass would be oval also. Easily seen by looking/feeling, confirmed with a micrometer. Knowledgeable person would know that and wrote that in the article as proof.

More likely this a either an oversized chamber or undersized brass or accumulation of both. But I have not examined rifle or brass so my supposition is speculative and not knowledgeable either.

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DD, Ret.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DoubleD]
      #318185 - 17/07/18 11:47 PM

On the opposite end of the spectrum...

https://rifleshooter.com/2018/07/starlin...cases-15-times/

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Ripp]
      #318186 - 18/07/18 12:05 AM

A friend sent this to me yesterday..
Factory stock Ruger Precision Rifle.. .223 Caliber..
Group is .116

He has another in 6.5 Creedmoor as well...also incredibly accurate..BUT, that one has a Proof Research Barrel on it...


IMG954974 by A Hoffart, on Flickr

IMG954973 by A Hoffart, on Flickr

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (18/07/18 12:17 AM)


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Ripp]
      #318189 - 18/07/18 02:44 AM

That was obviously a problem with THAT particular case.

Over pressure and/or chamber problem had nothing to do with that failure. THAT is also obvious as no other such problems existed.

RIPP - that .223 shoots almost as well as my CZ Hornet Lux with 40gr. at 3,340fps (14.4gr. LG in RP brass - safe only in MODERN Hornets).

Not a fair comparison though, as the CZ is a bolt gun.

Nice group.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DarylS]
      #318192 - 18/07/18 03:05 AM

When I first bough my Creedmoor I tried to use federal brass. The brass was so inconsistent that I switched to Nosler and than Lupua as soon as it became available. Federal has got to many irons in the fire and it is starting to show in there products. Daryl that Creedmoor rifle pictured above is a bolt gun.

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DarylS
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #318193 - 18/07/18 04:12 AM

Ahh - OK bolt gun - my error. So - no contest, then. It's OK thou, for a 'black gun' I guess. LOL

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DarylS]
      #318195 - 18/07/18 06:14 AM

Would have been scary to see that happen when you ejected the case!
Had Winchester 7mm Rem Mag brass necks split every case upon firing once, took them back to the gun shop for a refund - which they did.


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Ripp
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DarylS]
      #318196 - 18/07/18 06:58 AM

Quote:

That was obviously a problem with THAT particular case.

Over pressure and/or chamber problem had nothing to do with that failure. THAT is also obvious as no other such problems existed.

RIPP - that .223 shoots almost as well as my CZ Hornet Lux with 40gr. at 3,340fps (14.4gr. LG in RP brass - safe only in MODERN Hornets).

Not a fair comparison though, as the CZ is a bolt gun.

Nice group.




My thought is WOW, guns in general have come a long way in terms of accuracy in the past 30-40 years..mainly it seems in the past 10-15..you did not normally see groups like that in a factory rifle as frequently as we do today..

Talked to another buddy yesterday that is shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor in a Ruger American..cheap rifle..like $300..shooting half inch groups with Federal Factory ammo.. crazy...

We are in a golden era IMHO, in terms of accuracy, components, and powders available....

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Dogfish858
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Reged: 08/08/15
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Loc: Western Canada
Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Ripp]
      #318199 - 18/07/18 10:00 AM

I have heard it expressed that a rifle manufacturer who boasts of accuracy on a modern-make rifle with (in particular) a modern age barrel is akin to a car manufacturer bragging about having four wheels on a car. For what that's worth. Not trying to start a fight, just making an observation.

Shooting flies is fun.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?


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DarylS
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Dogfish858]
      #318202 - 18/07/18 11:24 AM

I bought one of the Savage Axis rifles a few years back, when they first came in. It was VERY inexpensive - under $400.00 iirc and in .25/06. With every load I put through it, it shot 1/2" to 5/8" from 75gr. Hp's to 115gr. Noslers P's. including a box of factory 117gr. Nosler P's. (might have had the weights backwards) This happened, even with the horrific trigger, right from the get-go with old /06 brass necked down.
You are spot-on, Ripp - these modern made guns are amazingly accurate.

I well remember the days where a 1 1/2" group with factory ammo was good accuracy.

My Browning A-bolt makes cloverleafs with factory 180gr.Bonded WW and RP Corelokt 180's. one of these days I might bed it, or not.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DarylS]
      #318210 - 18/07/18 06:04 PM

The reason I am thinking chamber-not necessarily out of round but maybe an inverse protrusion-grove- in the chamber as the main cause, along with weak brass, is the constancy of the split. Not likely all 3 cases would be so alike if it was just a brass fault. The top of the splits even curve the same way. Just my view without further knowledge.

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Wayne59
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Rule303]
      #318212 - 18/07/18 10:18 PM

I have had brass do this and it was because it was to hard. Not properly annealed. Was using Magteck Shotgun brass reforming to 577 snider and every case split exactly the same way.

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DarylS
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #318220 - 18/07/18 11:45 PM

The fired cases do show a fairly large expansion ring, but not out of the ordinary for American made guns.

Wayne, you might be right - my first impression of the brass being too soft does not pan out now that I think about it some. Too hard and not expanding properly might be the cause.
"This" jury is deliberating and might not come up with a positive answer - depends on circumstances.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DarylS]
      #318242 - 19/07/18 02:40 AM

If you notice the guy dosn't mention the manufacturer. I also don't buy the statement that guy down the firing line just so happens to be firing the same ammo from the (SAME LOT). Now what are the chances of that. With out having the actual cases to measure and test the hardness (you would need proper equipment to test the hardness of the brass)we will never know. They could just go out and buy a box of hornady or some other brand and see if the cases develop the same split.

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Rule303
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #318252 - 19/07/18 07:26 AM

Quote:

If you notice the guy dosn't mention the manufacturer. I also don't buy the statement that guy down the firing line just so happens to be firing the same ammo from the (SAME LOT). Now what are the chances of that. With out having the actual cases to measure and test the hardness (you would need proper equipment to test the hardness of the brass)we will never know. They could just go out and buy a box of hornady or some other brand and see if the cases develop the same split.




Wayne give yourself an upper cut. No room for logical thinking here.

Yes that is one of the first things I would have done + checking any non ruptured cases for uniformity and any other marks. When home I would also have cut one in two to check the consistency of brass thickness.

Edited by Rule303 (19/07/18 07:28 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Rule303]
      #318254 - 19/07/18 07:47 AM

In retrospect, seeing the sooty cases, there had to be post-shot smoke coming from the action somewhere, before the case was ejected.

Interesting that nothing of this was mentioned. The case with the identical split as the others, but facing the camera is Hornady - no question there.

The title of this is stupid - there was no explosion - not even close.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DarylS]
      #318257 - 19/07/18 12:08 PM

Sorry brain melt down meant Nosler not Hornady.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DarylS]
      #318271 - 19/07/18 09:25 PM

Quote:

In retrospect, seeing the sooty cases, there had to be post-shot smoke coming from the action somewhere, before the case was ejected.

Interesting that nothing of this was mentioned. The case with the identical split as the others, but facing the camera is Hornady - no question there.

The title of this is stupid - there was no explosion - not even close.




Agreed--the title is misleading as best... when I first saw the article was looking for parts scattered...but found it interesting ..so posted it..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2386
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Ripp]
      #318279 - 19/07/18 11:37 PM

Ponder this.

Go back and look at the picture.

Look at the carbon on the head of the case by the rupture. It is half moon shaped

All the splits are linear. All seem to originate just ahead if the extractor groove in the same point on the half moon shaped carbon stain. the cracks them selves go three different ways.

How does carbon stain the outside of brass? By flowing between case and chamber wall. How can leaking gas create such a shaped stain.

What kind of gun was this ammo fired in anyway?

I think we all are assuming AR here.

Read this.

" As you might imagine, quite a bit of safety tolerance or “fudge factor” is built into the systems, everything from extra strong steel and gas blocks in the bolt raceways to gas shrouds on the ends of the bolt body and escape vents (those holes in the front receiver rings.) "

And,

"This was a well built, highly respected factory rifle and factory ammunition."

Sounds more like a bolt gun, to me.

Wonder if some one cut a feed ramp on the barrel. That's the rookie stuff we did at school when we didn't know how to adjust feed rails and magazine followers. This was usually followed by Instruction from the "Colonel" as we knew the professor to set the barrel back and do it right.

Just pondering and speculating like the rest of you.

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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Wayne59
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DoubleD]
      #318297 - 20/07/18 12:34 PM

Actually I never considered an AR.

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dracb
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Reged: 28/02/13
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Loc: British Columbia
Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #318298 - 20/07/18 01:03 PM

Quote:

If you notice the guy dosn't mention the manufacturer. I also don't buy the statement that guy down the firing line just so happens to be firing the same ammo from the (SAME LOT). Now what are the chances of that. With out having the actual cases to measure and test the hardness (you would need proper equipment to test the hardness of the brass)we will never know. They could just go out and buy a box of hornady or some other brand and see if the cases develop the same split.




I would think the chances could be pretty good that two people were shooting the same lot of ammunition. There are a million people living in the valley where I live but very few places to buy ammunition and not many places to shot it. Most of the people shooting on the local range in say Abbotsford probably bought their ammo at either Cabelas of the local sporting store. Most of the ammunition of a particular caliber and brand sold at the local cabelas this month will likely be from the same lot and the the local sports shop will likely be selling the same lot of ammo for months.
There are many places where shooters purchasing new ammunition for a particular caliber are likely to only be offered the same lot of ammo for a considerable periods of time.

--------------------
"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."


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DarylS
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: dracb]
      #318300 - 20/07/18 01:43 PM

DD - you may have something there - that hemispherical foot print is quite profound & could very easily be produced by a ramp on the end of the chamber. Winchester did exactly this with the .45 Colt M94 Trapper.
I had one of those and had to use the bulging case measurements when developing my loads, to keep them safe.

Old original balloon - head factory Dominion RNWMP issue .45 Colt ammo almost blew there themselves.
I'm down to a 1/2 dozen or 8 of those.LOL - should not have fired the 2 I did try for measurements only.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: DoubleD]
      #318302 - 20/07/18 05:32 PM

DD I am pondering what you said. I think you might well be onto something there.

Not sure why there is signs of carbon at the top of the splits.


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Wayne59
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Rule303]
      #318303 - 20/07/18 07:50 PM

The hole point of this is that the man wrote an article and supported it with no facts.

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Homer
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Re: The Creedmoor Explodes.. [Re: Wayne59]
      #318342 - 22/07/18 08:25 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Ripp, I also received this Face Book mail, from Ron Spomer.
As soon as I seen the images, I assumed there was a firearm issue (chamber, etc).
Regardless of cartidge, thats not the sort of thing you want happening, a few inches from your face!

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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