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Ripp
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The best-30-06-based-cartridge..???
      #308725 - 07/12/17 12:59 AM

http://timeforoutdoor.com/blog/best-30-06-based-cartridge/


The Best .30-06 Based Cartridge? The Answer Will Surprise You!

Posted By Aleksandar on December 5, 2017

.30-06 Family Virtual Shootout

Wondering about the world’s most popular sporting cartridge? That would be the .30-06 Springfield. We are speaking about versatile, accurate, and plentiful cartridge every hunter or shooter would love. It is not surprising why every rifle maker offers at least one of their models chambered for this old warhorse.

As an improvement of the .30-03 which actually was designed as a replacement of the somewhat under-powered .30-40 Krag, in 1906, the military adopted the .30-06. His spurs, the .30-06 earned during the World War One. Most of the U.S veterans simply fell in love with this cartridge, so as their serving days finished, they wanted to hunt with it as civilians.



Post-War Baby (Cartridge) Boom
Also, they began to experiment with the then-new cartridge and noticed it reacted well to modifications. Soon after, all the cartridges were developed based on the .30-06’s 62mm-long case, since it has a higher powder capacity compared to rivals( for example the 57mm Mauser case).


How do the .30-06 ’s descendants compare to their parent, and to each other?
Here we analyzed six .30-06 based cartridges for trajectory, the effective range, and recoil with modern ballistic software (which actually is available free online from shooterscalculator.com). Calculations were adjusted to standard temperature (15C) and pressure (29.92 inHg) at sea level.

Trajectory
Trajectory widely is defined as Maximum Point Blank Range (MPBR) which is the distance over who a bullet rises 3” above sight line and then drops 3″ inches below to hit within a 6″ kill box ( an average vital zone for big game). Just imagine a bullet moving through a 6″ diameter pipe for a safe distance.


Effective Range

Here, the effective range is the minimum impact energy recommended for a humane kill on a medium and large game, as well as the minimum velocity which most of the hunting bullets require for a reliable expansion (1800 fps). In a case the minimum energy range exceeds the given minimum expansion range, then the minimum expansion range will become the maximum effective range due to the fact that unexpanded bullets are less effective despite the energy they possess.

Recoil

Recoil calculations we have are all based on a nine-pound rifle weight, since it is an average for most scoped and loaded sporter-type rifles.

Standardized Test Methodology

Unless otherwise noticed, all calculations here are based on the heaviest Nosler AccuBond™ bullet available in each caliber. The AccuBond™ is a good all-around hunting cartridge with high ballistic coefficients (BCs) and terminal achievement similar to the time-tested Nosler Partition™. Both of them are noted for each bullet tested. BC quantifies a bullet’s aerodynamic efficiency, while the SD predicts corresponding ability to enter into a game animal; the larger each number, the better.


Specific long range bullets used as they are unnecessary for most hunting circumstances, and the muzzle velocities are the nominal industry measure of the tested bullet weight in each caliber.

Scoring System

Points were awarded as follows:

One point was given for every 25 yards beyond 200 yards for maximum effective range on a medium or large game. Respectively, one point was deducted for every 25 yards less than 200 yards.
1 point for every 25 yards beyond 200 yards for minimum expansion velocity and 1 point deducted for every 25 yards which were less than 200.

For every ten yards MPBR beyond 200 yards, one point rewarded, and deducted for every ten yards less than 200.

1 point for each ft-lbsf recoil less than 15, and the same deducted for every ft-lbsf greater than 15.


So, here’s the ranking:

First Place: .280 Remington, 51.8 Points

Remington’s response to the .270 Winchester scored the highest place notwithstanding the fact a 140-grain ammo is the heaviest offered by the major ammunition makers. Hand loaders will find this is one cartridge which benefits from 150 -175-grain bullets which have greater BCs and will enhance effective range for larger game such as moose or elk.

Second Place: .270 Winchester, 49.2 points

The performance of this cartridge is almost equal to the usually ignored .280. It came second in this test because in a factory cartridge is 140 grains, which is the weight that settles between the 130s favored for medium game and the 150 – 160s appropriate to larger animals. A .270 that is well matched to the expected game is a terrific companion for any hunter.

Third Place: .25-06 Remington, 41.9 Points

Although third in this test, the .25-06 win a real-world trifecta. This one is the flattest shooting, lowest recoiling and the hardest hitting cartridge in existence. Anyway, for some inexplicable purpose, it has lost its market share over the past decade. Again, it is a cartridge which could have scored higher in a case the ammunition makers offered a heavier AccuBond™ bullet. It is best for deer sized game and predators, but this cartridge becomes a giant slayer with 115 – 120-grain bullets.

Fourth Place: .30-06 Springfield, 40.5 Points

While it scored a fourth place in this comparison, the .30-06 is still more versatile than its descendants. His ability to use bullets between 110 and 240 grains makes it the perfect choice for the one-gun hunter. It may shoot flatter and the bigger calibers may hit much harder, but only the “Ought Six” may drop everything from woodchucks to Kodiak bears. The reloading components and the fact factory ammo are available everywhere, which proves why it is so popular.

Fifth Place: .338-06 A-Square, 36.3 Points

Even being a wildcat cartridge until a few years ago, the .338-06 takes .30-06 cartridges to a new level for use against large and heavy critters. .338 caliber bullets have enormous partial densities—grain for grain, they drive deeper into animals than most others. This means even at the modest velocities generated by this cartridge, it is more than a match for large, thin skinned animals. Although it generated the highest recoil forces while this test, it is still much smoother to a shooter’s shoulder than any other .338 caliber magnum.

Sixth Place: .35 Whelen, 22.3 Points

Although executed a bit redundant with the .330-06’s debut, the .35 Whelen cartridge packed the heavy hitter role in the .30-06 family for many decades ago. .35 caliber bullets may not have so many sexy coefficients when compared to the .338’s, but they hit tough, big, animals hard.

Conclusion:

The .30-06 has generated the most versatile cartridge line up in the cartridge history. There’s little a hunter can’t do with any .30-06 based round, except maybe take Africa’s Big Five.

The .25-06 is definitely a mild-mannered deer hammer who can put moose or elk in the freezer. Also, it’s the best pick for a long range predator control; it makes small holes in precious pelts.

The .270 and .280 are cartridges loved by hunters from all over the world, especially those in the western U.S. The .338-06 and .35 Whelen have the same mission in this cartridge family. It is a shame most hunters observe them as short-range specialty rounds for use in heavy cover. The effective ranges they have in the 500-yard make them an ideal cartridge choice for all-round hunting, especially for a big game.

Check this as well: Top Five Long Range Cartridges – The Best of the Best

Although it looks average in this test, the venerable .30-06 is still possibly the best choice in the bunch of cartridges when considered all factors.
Both .30-06 guns and ammunition for it are available worldwide, and more importantly, it is affordable to shoot more, meaning you’ll have more practice. And we all know that practice makes for accuracy, and accuracy puts more meat on your table than any other single thing.

The .30-06 family definitely contains the best hunting cartridges in the history. However, few could argue otherwise.



--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (07/12/17 01:41 AM)


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cordite
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Ripp]
      #308730 - 07/12/17 02:48 AM

Best for what? The criteria listed: Trajectory, effective range and recoil are obviously biased towards long range shooting. OK, if that is what you want but not the criteria I would necessarily use.

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Ripp
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: cordite]
      #308731 - 07/12/17 03:00 AM

Quote:

Best for what? The criteria listed: Trajectory, effective range and recoil are obviously biased towards long range shooting. OK, if that is what you want but not the criteria I would necessarily use.




Geez...Keep your undergarments on..

Just an article and one man's opinion... however the criteria were mentioned..please review the article again if you missed it....its quite clear what they are...

Also pretty sure RECOIL and TRAJECTORY as criteria are not exclusive to long range shooting..I read on here weekly about how the new Magnums are difficult to shoot, barrel burners, etc...so ????

This and similar posts are not meant to piss you off because your favorite cartridge is not on there..more so, meant to create discussion, thoughts, etc...at least that is what it does for me and several others..if it makes you feel any better, my favorites are not on there either..however I do use the 280AI a lot for mountain goat/sheep hunting..great caliber..IMHO

Have a great day...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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tinker
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Ripp]
      #308735 - 07/12/17 03:38 AM

30-06 with the new Nosler Accubond LR 210gr bullet is pretty damn nice

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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cordite
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: tinker]
      #308750 - 07/12/17 07:50 AM

Actually I thought the article was fine. No heartburn here. My point simply was that I would personally use different criteria to determine my "best" cartridge.

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Rell
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: cordite]
      #308751 - 07/12/17 08:39 AM

Sorry no 400 Whelen on the list?

-2150fps with 400gr soft or solids
-fits in a standard M98 action
-5 down

Come on, how is this not a classic?

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Claydog
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Rell]
      #308752 - 07/12/17 09:27 AM

Great article I thought. Hunted with a guy who used a 338/06 exclusively for years and he believed it to be the perfect all rounder for Australia.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Claydog]
      #308770 - 07/12/17 04:27 PM

Quote:

Great article I thought. Hunted with a guy who used a 338/06 exclusively for years and he believed it to be the perfect all rounder for Australia.




As it is the old .318 WR in a new dress, and if his game choices include buffalo, he is probably pretty spot on. As the 250 gr .330 was considered a great cape buffalo round by a lot of the author old timers, it is probably a good minimum choice for water buffalo. Yes other rounds will do the job too.

And with the 160 to 200 gr bullet range, not too overgunned for medium game.

I would be tempted by a 8.5x63 barrel for my Mauser M03 if I didn't already have a 8x68S.



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John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: NitroX]
      #308772 - 07/12/17 04:54 PM

Quote:

The best-30-06-based-cartridge..???




My first thought the real parent is still the best, the 7x57mm.

And if it must be a longer case, the 7x64mm.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Homer
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: NitroX]
      #308797 - 08/12/17 08:02 AM

G'Day Fella's,

I have only ever owned two .25-06 (still) and a .338-06.
Personally, the .30-06 and it's sprouts, are all great cartridges.
They all have a place and many overlap each other, as you would expect.

If I had to pick one (for global hunting-non dangerous game), I would probably go with the .270 Win.
It's a great performer (and has been, for 90 years now) and you can buy ammo for it, almost any where.

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: NitroX]
      #308809 - 08/12/17 06:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

The best-30-06-based-cartridge..???




My first thought the real parent is still the best, the 7x57mm.

And if it must be a longer case, the 7x64mm.




You mean the 8x57. Correct me if I am wrong but did not the 7X57 come along after the 8?

My personal preference is the 35Whelen followed by the 270. Of them all the parent case is the least desirable for me. I have several 308's and a 300SAUM.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Rule303]
      #308810 - 08/12/17 06:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The best-30-06-based-cartridge..???




My first thought the real parent is still the best, the 7x57mm.

And if it must be a longer case, the 7x64mm.




You mean the 8x57. Correct me if I am wrong but did not the 7X57 come along after the 8?

My personal preference is the 35Whelen followed by the 270. Of them all the parent case is the least desirable for me. I have several 308's and a 300SAUM.




I thought the 7x57 was first but per Chuckhawks, the 8x57 was four years earlier. However per Chuckhawks the .30-06 was based on the 7x57. If they are correct that is.

Quote:

8x57mm Mauser

From the standpoint of the bolt action rifle user, the 8x57mm Mauser is the cartridge that, more than any other, is responsible for the success of the type. Designed in 1888 for the Mauser military rifle, the 8x57 quickly became the standard upon which later rimless cartridges were based, including the famous 7x57 in 1892.

The U.S. Army's .30-06 cartridge, covered elsewhere in this article, is actually an enlarged 7x57 and shares the 7x57's .473" rim diameter and basic design. Actually, the 7x57 appears to be the more modern cartridge due its sharper 20 degree 45 minute shoulder angle. (The .30-06 uses a 17 degree 30 minute shoulder.)




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Ripp
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Homer]
      #308828 - 09/12/17 01:18 AM

Quote:

G'Day Fella's,

I have only ever owned two .25-06 (still) and a .338-06.
Personally, the .30-06 and it's sprouts, are all great cartridges.
They all have a place and many overlap each other, as you would expect.

If I had to pick one (for global hunting-non dangerous game), I would probably go with the .270 Win.
It's a great performer (and has been, for 90 years now) and you can buy ammo for it, almost any where.

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer




Laughed when I found and read this article shortly after reading your post Homer..so here you go.. and yes, this duplicates my feelings of the .270 as well...

Ripp

WHY I HATE THE .270W...

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2017/12/6/opinion-why-i-hate-the-270/

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Ripp]
      #308843 - 09/12/17 09:39 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Wow Ripp, thats quite an article.
I'm a bit lost for words, as I have little personal experience with the .270, so it is difficult to come back with an honest answer.

Maybe................... the .280 would have been a better response? LOL!

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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tinker
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: NitroX]
      #308846 - 09/12/17 03:26 PM

Quote:


I thought the 7x57 was first but per Chuckhawks, the 8x57 was four years earlier. However per Chuckhawks the .30-06 was based on the 7x57. If they are correct that is...






Funny

I use 30-06 cases as parent for 8x60 Mag!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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lancaster
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: NitroX]
      #308850 - 09/12/17 05:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The best-30-06-based-cartridge..???




My first thought the real parent is still the best, the 7x57mm.

And if it must be a longer case, the 7x64mm.




You mean the 8x57. Correct me if I am wrong but did not the 7X57 come along after the 8?

My personal preference is the 35Whelen followed by the 270. Of them all the parent case is the least desirable for me. I have several 308's and a 300SAUM.




I thought the 7x57 was first but per Chuckhawks, the 8x57 was four years earlier. However per Chuckhawks the .30-06 was based on the 7x57. If they are correct that is.

Quote:

8x57mm Mauser

From the standpoint of the bolt action rifle user, the 8x57mm Mauser is the cartridge that, more than any other, is responsible for the success of the type. Designed in 1888 for the Mauser military rifle, the 8x57 quickly became the standard upon which later rimless cartridges were based, including the famous 7x57 in 1892.

The U.S. Army's .30-06 cartridge, covered elsewhere in this article, is actually an enlarged 7x57 and shares the 7x57's .473" rim diameter and basic design. Actually, the 7x57 appears to be the more modern cartridge due its sharper 20 degree 45 minute shoulder angle. (The .30-06 uses a 17 degree 30 minute shoulder.)







30 06 is a 8x57 copy and 6 mm longer because american made powder dont reach the quality of german powder so they need a longer case to get 8x57 ballistic.

7x57 is not a 8x57 necked down but have a bigger base diameter and the shoulder have another position.
CIP maximum for the 7x57 case is 12,10 base diam.
the 7x64 is a 8x57 based case with a CIP maximum of 11,99mm

--------------------
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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450_Ackley
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: lancaster]
      #308852 - 09/12/17 06:52 PM

I've got a few '06 based cartridges, a 30-06, a 338-06, a 35 Whelen, 2 x 375-06 Ackley's and a 400 Whelen.
My favourite of the lot is the 375-06 Ackley.
I can use from 200 to 300 grain jacketed bullets and cast bullets in all many of weights. It will never be a 375 H&H, but it's not too far off, and is certainly more efficient per grain of powder burnt.
Mind you, the 400 Whelen is a huge surprise too, 400 grain bullets at 2150 fps with about 4-5 different powders, some of which you think wouldn't work. Basically a bolt action version of the 450/400 NE.

DC


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Rule303
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: lancaster]
      #308854 - 09/12/17 07:05 PM

Lancaster, thanks for that information, I did not know the 8 and 7X57 had different cases.

Ripp, whats that damned authors contact I'll send him some hate mail

I love the 270 and the only failure I have had was due to the bullet not performing. Went for it as all the mated wanted 280, so I had to be different didn't I I know a guide here recons more deer are wounded and lost to the 270 than other calibres. My only conclusion are-Wrong Bullet or bad shooting.

I have a strong dislike for the 243 for similar reasons to those published. Never had one but have found or seen a lot of game wounded by and lost to it. Most of this was when I first go into hunting and I think can be put down to, Shit shot and or bad bullet selection. I know this but still have a dislike for it..........go figure.

Similar, not keen on the 223 but love my 6.8SPC. I can't be too crazy I do like my 308's


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Rule303]
      #308857 - 09/12/17 08:14 PM

Quote:

Lancaster, thanks for that information, I did not know the 8 and 7X57 had different cases.




News to me as well. Different to everything I have ever read on the subject. Saw a comment saying the case head was different though this week.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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lancaster
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: NitroX]
      #308858 - 09/12/17 08:32 PM

8x57 is the Mod. 88- 8mm



6,5x57 is Mod. 88- 6,6mm
and 9x57 is Mod. 88- 9mm



10,75x57 is Mod. 88- 11mm (better Mod. 88 10,75 mm)




the 7x57 Mauser is NOT the "Mod. 88- 7 mm"




but the (spanish Mauser) Mod. 93 7mm




name show it clearly its not a M 88 necked down

--------------------
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.
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Maxim
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: lancaster]
      #308861 - 10/12/17 01:48 AM

I had a Ruger 77 .35 Whelen loaned to me to develop loads for it for about a year. For the lack of enough .35 Whelen brass and having a mountain of 30.06 it was very easy to form Whelen just with the Whelen dies. I did not notice any difference in performance between the 30.06 formed cases or the actual Whelen cases. Not real extensive testing but the recoil did give you the sense there was certainly a bit more energy there. I did take a whitetail with it. Did not have it long enough to take it out a it farther to 200 or 300 yards. I believe with the vast choices in powder out there one could certainly come up with some very effective loads with some time spent testing.
Around here there are 243,270's galore. The 6.5 Creedmore is going to cause some of the old favorites to gather dust.


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Well_Well_Well
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Maxim]
      #308864 - 10/12/17 08:05 AM

Quote:

I had a Ruger 77 .35 Whelen loaned to me to develop loads for it for about a year. For the lack of enough .35 Whelen brass and having a mountain of 30.06 it was very easy to form Whelen just with the Whelen dies. I did not notice any difference in performance between the 30.06 formed cases or the actual Whelen cases. Not real extensive testing but the recoil did give you the sense there was certainly a bit more energy there. I did take a whitetail with it. Did not have it long enough to take it out a it farther to 200 or 300 yards. I believe with the vast choices in powder out there one could certainly come up with some very effective loads with some time spent testing.
Around here there are 243,270's galore. The 6.5 Creedmore is going to cause some of the old favorites to gather dust.





Perhaps we need a thread on the best 300 savage based cartridge.....


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Homer
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Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #308866 - 10/12/17 08:56 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Just a bit of info, regarding "Which Came First".

According to my Vihtavuori reloading manual, 4th Edition;
The 8x57I, was first introduced in 1888 (with a bullet diameter of 8.08mm - 0.318").
In 1905 the 8x57 bullet diameter was increased to 8.2mm - 0.323" and renamed 8x57IS.
The 7x57, was introduced in 1892.

Further to the 8x57, it goes on to explain the following;
"To maximise the confusion the letter "J" is commonly instead of the CIP-approved "I" in many German speaking countries, an abbreviation of the German word "Infanteriegescoss" (infantry ammunition).
The 8x57IS is also know as 7.92mm Mauser or 8mm Mauser."

Hope that helps.

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #308885 - 10/12/17 06:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:




Perhaps we need a thread on the best 300 savage based cartridge.....




I'll vote for the 308.


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PatagonHunter
.300 member


Reged: 20/01/06
Posts: 249
Loc: Bariloche, Patagonia Argentina
Re: The best-30-06-based-cartridge..??? [Re: Rule303]
      #308889 - 10/12/17 09:59 PM

Hi,

To me, the .30-06 itself is the best of the .30-06 family!!!

Some comments have to be made about the origins of the "Mauser" cartridges and their decendents.

-The 8x57 was NOT a Mauser designed cartridge. It was designed by the Commission 88.

-The FIRST Mauser smokeless designed cartridge was the great 7,65x53 (or 7,65x53,5 or 7,65x54)for the Belgian 1889 Mauser. By the way, in my opinion the 7,65 Mauser Belgian (Turkish and Argentine)is one of the best Military Mauser cartridge of that era, as modern then as now!

-The 7x57 Mauser was the SECOND of the Mauser designed cartridges.

-This two real Mauser cartridges do not have the same head and rim dimensions as the 8x57, and for the original ones and their reloading, it needs another shell holder. In the RCBS, the correct one is the Nr. 11, not the Nr. 3 for the 8x57/30-06

-The .30-06 shares the head and rim dimensions with the 8x57. No matter what was the motivation for the change of the rifle/cartridge from the Krag/30-40 to the Springfield 30-03/30-06.

Merry Christmas to all!

PH


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