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Ripp
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Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex
      #303520 - 03/08/17 12:47 AM

Read this article--curious if anyone else has any thoughts on what they felt is the "perfect" caliber for a lighter mountain rifle used for sheep/goats/ibex??


http://www.rifleshootermag.com/rifles/featured_rifles_sheep_061305/

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Igorrock
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303540 - 03/08/17 05:02 AM

I would vote 6,5x68. It´s very popular with bespoke hunting in Middle Europe alps. As you know, 6,5 mm bullets have very good sectional density and they almost "over-stabilizing" in long range distances.

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Rule303
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Igorrock]
      #303552 - 03/08/17 08:51 AM

Yes, the 6.5X68 would be very good as would the 6.5SAUM. I would not discount the 7mm SAUM or WSM. Others I would consider include 7X64, 280Rem or the Ackley version. The 8x68s with a 170 to 200 grain bullet in a Titan 6 would be good.

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Rule303]
      #303593 - 04/08/17 12:59 AM

Quote:

Yes, the 6.5X68 would be very good as would the 6.5SAUM. I would not discount the 7mm SAUM or WSM. Others I would consider include 7X64, 280Rem or the Ackley version. The 8x68s with a 170 to 200 grain bullet in a Titan 6 would be good.





I was thinking something along the lines of a 6.5 as well..already have a 6.5 Creedmore as well as a 6.5/284 --the ballistics of the 6.5 bullets are amazing, IMHO...think they would do great pretty much anywhere in the world..all with modest recoil..

Ripp

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szihn
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303595 - 04/08/17 02:02 AM

There are so many it would take too long to write them all down. And that's just normal factory available rounds. Add the wildcats and that list will fill a small book. Most of them are so good they can be called "perfect" by the owners who like them. From 6MM to 375.

And in all of it, the important point is usually missed!

It's the hunter, not the cartridge.

Remember, the Chadwick Ram was killed with a 404 Jeffery. Far from a 6.5MM Stupendous-ultra-Uber Wizz-Bang Mag, but that ram is dead, and it was done with a "pumpkin thrower", shot by a man who knew how to hunt.

Edited by szihn (04/08/17 02:04 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303614 - 04/08/17 08:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes, the 6.5X68 would be very good as would the 6.5SAUM. I would not discount the 7mm SAUM or WSM. Others I would consider include 7X64, 280Rem or the Ackley version. The 8x68s with a 170 to 200 grain bullet in a Titan 6 would be good.





I was thinking something along the lines of a 6.5 as well..already have a 6.5 Creedmore as well as a 6.5/284 --the ballistics of the 6.5 bullets are amazing, IMHO...think they would do great pretty much anywhere in the world..all with modest recoil..

Ripp




Ripp, you are getting soft in your old age

Very good point though.

Szihn, don't be a spoil sport What you say is true, it is the shooter that is the most important part and the most fallible. With a bit of practice I would not hesitate to use the 416 Rigby out to 400mts, with a lot of practice to 500. Yes I get satisfaction from pulling off a long shot but get more from getting up close.

Edited by Rule303 (04/08/17 08:56 AM)


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ducmarc
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: szihn]
      #303615 - 04/08/17 08:54 AM

Why does everyone hate the 270? Not you guys but someone must u can buy remmington core locks for 20$ a box.my friend kills everything with a 300 ultra mag.

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ducmarc
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: ducmarc]
      #303616 - 04/08/17 08:57 AM

He's wheelchair bound so shots start at around 200yrds.its a real cannon.

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Rule303
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: ducmarc]
      #303617 - 04/08/17 09:03 AM

Quote:

Why does everyone hate the 270? Not you guys but someone must u can buy remmington core locks for 20$ a box.my friend kills everything with a 300 ultra mag.




I have one and run 140grain bullets, I find these to be better than the 130grain bullets. My theory is they hate the 270 because of unrealistic expectations and poor shooting/bullet choice. That is hunters using light bullets or light constructed 130grain bullets up close that don't hold together hence wounding. Poor bullet placement, shooting large animals-Elk size deer or tough animals-pigs - at extreme range and wounding, then the Chinese whispers and blame that spread from this. Like I said I find those extra 10 grains of bullet weight make a noticeable difference in terminal effect.


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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: ducmarc]
      #303618 - 04/08/17 09:06 AM

I don't hate the .270 - just would NEVER consider buying one - LOL - EVER. Too many ctg.s that do all of the same things only better, kinda like my new-to-me "made in September, 1936 Model 70, .30GOVT06" - oh yeah! Just received the proper Lyman aperture rear sight for it as well, courtesy of NE member xausa - Oh yeah! - 24" bl - oh yeah!, - "Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex". Just pick your poison - rather your favourite bullet and load and go for it.

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Rule303]
      #303622 - 04/08/17 09:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Yes, the 6.5X68 would be very good as would the 6.5SAUM. I would not discount the 7mm SAUM or WSM. Others I would consider include 7X64, 280Rem or the Ackley version. The 8x68s with a 170 to 200 grain bullet in a Titan 6 would be good.





I was thinking something along the lines of a 6.5 as well..already have a 6.5 Creedmore as well as a 6.5/284 --the ballistics of the 6.5 bullets are amazing, IMHO...think they would do great pretty much anywhere in the world..all with modest recoil..

Ripp




Ripp, you are getting soft in your old age

Very good point though.

Szihn, don't be a spoil sport What you say is true, it is the shooter that is the most important part and the most fallible. With a bit of practice I would not hesitate to use the 416 Rigby out to 400mts, with a lot of practice to 500. Yes I get satisfaction from pulling off a long shot but get more from getting up close.




NOT quite yet, but, have all the larger calibers, 3,300,338 and 375RUM's...along with 375 H&H, 416,s, 458's and 470's..not to mention the 300 Win mag's...and one custome 7-300 Weatherby..my first gun I took to Alaska to hunt caribou..hammered 2 and a wolf the first 3 days thee..oh, I do have a 270 also ..but have not shot it in probably 15 years or so..good caliber but as Daryl states, many others that do the same thing better, IMHO..also have a 26 and 28 Nosler..personally the 28 is also a great flat shooting cartridge..I was told they might only last 6-800 rounds..don't care..once sighted in ..I am not going to hunt varmints with it..even at 500 rounds, would probably be more than I will shoot that one rifle in my lifetime..AND a barrel is what, $400 to $600?? Not a bad deal in my mind for what you get..

I have been shooting my 300RUM around the world since 2001..finally put a new barrel on it because I wanted a fluted one..the gunsmith told me the barrel was still in really good shape..and I KNOW I have exceed 500-to 600 in that easily..

Anyway..really like the 6.5/284..found this article while perusing the net over lunch..interesting comparing it to the 300Win..

https://journalofmountainhunting.com/2015/06/head-to-head-the-6-5-284-norma-vs-the-300-win-mag/

thx

Ripp

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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303624 - 04/08/17 11:13 AM

Interesting article, of course. It really shows off the 6.5's "stuff".

Don't know what the pressures were, but the little 57mm IMP chamber I played with some time ago, my daughter's .260 CLC (Carol's Little Ctg.)was a 6mm rem, or 7x57 necked to hold a 6.5 bullet, with the front end shape of a .260Rem. - short neck with the standard 20 degree shoulder.

The case held 60gr. of water, same as the 6.5x284, seems to me.

I was loading 52.0gr. RE#19 (not positive on that load) with a 120gr. Barnes XLC and getting 3,308fps, using 30gr. LESS powder than my M70A .264Win Mag and of course, a mere 50fps short of the magnum.

That is likely a good load for long range goat/sheep-like critters, too.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #303629 - 04/08/17 07:00 PM

I have done much mountain hunting, and only shot one sheep, a NZ wild or feral ram, on a deer hunt.

I would choose between my Mauser Mo3 in 8x68S or 6.5x65mm, or my Mauser 98 in .30-06.

I don't have any particular light or featherweight rifles.

I don't see a huge difference between the 8mm Magnums and the ,30 calibre magnums, big enough to say the 8mm are too pooiwerful while the .30 Magnums are fine ... Aglo-American cultural bias against the continently 8mm IMO onlyu.

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Rell
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: NitroX]
      #303652 - 04/08/17 11:25 PM

My one sheep is maybe the smallest full curl ram to ever come out of the Yukon, so I am not sure that my opinion has much merit.

I hunted with e resident friend, his tags, we took caribou, mountain goat and sheep. No grizzly but we saw females and young males almost every day. We used his 300 weatherby with 165gr nosler portions and a 3-9 Leupold. We also carried a Rem 870 marine with 000 buck, slugs and 6s.

The Mark V was really quite heavy and although I adore the caliber I would probably take my Hill Country Rifle Sako 85 in 7mm Rem mag loaded with 160gr Nolser partitions or Nosler Accubonds. It weights 7.25lbs with a 4.5-14x40 Leupold VX3. I have taken bushbuck wih it out to 530 meters and as close as 7 meters. It has accounted for a moose, 4 caribou, a couple dozen bushbucks, 3 kudu, 1 eland and maybe another couple dozen smaller plains game.

I love the mountains and did a lot of mountaineering and climbing when I lived in Alberta, but alas Africa has taken hold of me and it seems like I don't get into the high country enough anymore.

Intersting conversation and fun to think about and dream ....

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #303653 - 04/08/17 11:59 PM

Quote:

Interesting article, of course. It really shows off the 6.5's "stuff".

Don't know what the pressures were, but the little 57mm IMP chamber I played with some time ago, my daughter's .260 CLC (Carol's Little Ctg.)was a 6mm rem, or 7x57 necked to hold a 6.5 bullet, with the front end shape of a .260Rem. - short neck with the standard 20 degree shoulder.

The case held 60gr. of water, same as the 6.5x284, seems to me.

I was loading 52.0gr. RE#19 (not positive on that load) with a 120gr. Barnes XLC and getting 3,308fps, using 30gr. LESS powder than my M70A .264Win Mag and of course, a mere 50fps short of the magnum.

That is likely a good load for long range goat/sheep-like critters, too.




Agree, the 6.5/284 article certainly had its bias..BUT, those I have visited with who have much more experience than myself with this cartridge certainly sing its praises...talked to one of the marketing reps for HS Precision some time ago along with one of the instructors at GUNWERKS shooting facility..both could not say enough good about it.. As I stated, I have a Cooper in 6.5/284..have had for a few years now but have not used it much for hunting..

For all around I may already have all I ever need frankly..got a Lex Webernick, RIFLES INC lightweight model about 10 years ago..chambered in 280AI..very light..gun is around 5lbs..all in just a bit over 6 with scope and mounts..used it for the last 3 hunts out of the country on mtn game.(Ibex and Tur)...killed game like the hammer of Thor..shooting 140gr Nosler Accubonds..shots ranged from around 350 to 530 yards..all 3 were 1 shot kills..don't see where I can do any better ..used this same rifle on my Rocky Mountain Big Horn back in 2010..same effect..1 shot, done.

For elk sized game, especially if they are hyped up a bit, I prefer a .30 caliber rifle --whether its a 308W, 300 Winchester or 300RUM...the 30 cal bullet just smacks them hard...in my experience of seeing dozens of elk on the ground...again IMHO, similar to using a .375H&H vs .416 on cape buffalo.. noticeable difference on the initial shock of the hit..

Always find this a fun and interesting topic of discussion..and curious as to the thoughts of others..many many good ideas and calibers out there..

Ripp

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cordite
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303655 - 05/08/17 12:16 AM

I also find these types of discussions enjoyable. But the logical side of me knows that there are many cartridges that would work equally well. We all want to obsess over an inch of trajectory at 400 yards, an half inch of action length or a pound of rifle weight.

But for purposes of this discussion I will check in with a little Remington 600 that I had rebarreled a few years ago to 284 winchester.


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szihn
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303656 - 05/08/17 12:21 AM

"Szihn, don't be a spoil sport"

OK OK.......I'll be good.

Just as a side not, I have about 60 chamber reamers. The ones that have been re-sharpened enougn to be worn out and need to be replace are only 22-250 (1 time) 308 Winchester (1 time) and 270 Winchester (3 times)
So I don't think many people hate the 270. As a custom gunsmith I can tell you that there is far more love then hate for that cartridge. In my many years of making guns the 270 has been the #1 cartridge requested for custom rifles.
Even is the non-custom market it's reveling to see the 270 being the #4 seller for reloading dies, (#1 223, #2 308 Win, #3 30-06) so I don't think "everyone" hates the 270.


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Homer
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: szihn]
      #303688 - 05/08/17 08:54 AM

Quote:

"Szihn, don't be a spoil sport"

OK OK.......I'll be good.

Just as a side not, I have about 60 chamber reamers. The ones that have been re-sharpened enough to be worn out and need to be replace are only 22-250 (1 time) 308 Winchester (1 time) and 270 Winchester (3 times)
So I don't think many people hate the 270. As a custom gunsmith I can tell you that there is far more love then hate for that cartridge. In my many years of making guns the 270 has been the #1 cartridge requested for custom rifles.
Even is the non-custom market it's reveling to see the 270 being the #4 seller for reloading dies, (#1 223, #2 308 Win, #3 30-06) so I don't think "everyone" hates the 270.




G'Day Fella's,

Thanks for posting this link Ripp.

Szihn I believe, sums it up pretty well, LOL!

The .270 is still a very capable cartridge, especially with today's great choice of hunting bullets.
It's biggest "problem" is that it has been around for 90ish years (and decking game very capably, for all this time), so it's not a newfangled magnum, AI'ed, whizz banger.
By the way, I have only ever owned one .270, and I rebarreled it to .338 Win Mag.

The way I look at it is, in general the cartridge is a more personal choice than the rifle itself.
So you go with the chambering you believe is appropriate for the one, or several hunting tasks you plan to use it for, then find a factory rifle chambered for it.

Personally, we have so many quality factory options in rifles today, and so many of these are made by Kimber.

Then we have the other option of a non-standard or Wildcat cartridge, and a custom assembled rifle. The options for this, are endless these days.

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Homer]
      #303705 - 05/08/17 03:04 PM

OK-U2

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Daryl


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Homer
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #303706 - 05/08/17 04:21 PM

Thanks Daryl, will do.

Regards
Homer

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Homer]
      #303712 - 05/08/17 05:26 PM

When I left school I bought a .30-06 and also joined a deer hunting club.

At the deer hunting clubs annual target shoot, I was interested to note, only one other participant had a .30 calibre rifle. There were a lot of .270's, .243's some other less than .30 calibre rifles. Nothing over .30.

Most of the hunting was fallow deer, and of course goats and pigs. Many hunters did make trips to Victoria to hunt sambar deer. The .270 is legal and adequate for this.

Nowadays my guess there would be few if any .270's. Lots of .30's and a number of greater than .30 rifles represented. Probably few if any .243's.

Have these lesser calibre cartridges stopped being able to kill beasts? No. What has changed? Fashion and hype. Hype to sell new stuff. Fashion to use newer and "better" rounds.

My original choice of the .30-06 was because I wanted one cartridge able to be used for any and all medium game hunting anywhere in the world.

Same reason I went to the slightly more powerful 8x68S. This was partialy due to my shots with the .30-06 failing with some beasts in Africa. With hindsight it was probably more due to the particular projectile failing to perform and more likely the batch of the projectiles was defective. But it is good to have some extra oomph when trophy hunting and not just meat hunting.

BTW same reason I went to the .375 H&H Magnum, a cartridge which can handle any beast anywhere oin the world.

Both the .30-06 and .375 H&H Mag are also common. Not a defect, but a positive if ammo ever needs to be sourced.


So a but off topic. But a .270, which could kill well in the 1980's can still kill today.

Same as a .30-06, which also has only a slightly lesser trajectory.

But not fashionable or trendy!

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SharpsNitro
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: NitroX]
      #303746 - 06/08/17 12:51 PM

Hard to beat the ballistics of the 6.5 SAUM. That thing is an absolute hammer out to ranges well beyond what you would take game at. A well specd .243 should do well too.

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: NitroX]
      #303763 - 06/08/17 10:55 PM

Quote:

When I left school I bought a .30-06 and also joined a deer hunting club.

At the deer hunting clubs annual target shoot, I was interested to note, only one other participant had a .30 calibre rifle. There were a lot of .270's, .243's some other less than .30 calibre rifles. Nothing over .30.

Most of the hunting was fallow deer, and of course goats and pigs. Many hunters did make trips to Victoria to hunt sambar deer. The .270 is legal and adequate for this.

Nowadays my guess there would be few if any .270's. Lots of .30's and a number of greater than .30 rifles represented. Probably few if any .243's.

Have these lesser calibre cartridges stopped being able to kill beasts? No. What has changed? Fashion and hype. Hype to sell new stuff. Fashion to use newer and "better" rounds.

My original choice of the .30-06 was because I wanted one cartridge able to be used for any and all medium game hunting anywhere in the world.

Same reason I went to the slightly more powerful 8x68S. This was partialy due to my shots with the .30-06 failing with some beasts in Africa. With hindsight it was probably more due to the particular projectile failing to perform and more likely the batch of the projectiles was defective. But it is good to have some extra oomph when trophy hunting and not just meat hunting.

BTW same reason I went to the .375 H&H Magnum, a cartridge which can handle any beast anywhere oin the world.

Both the .30-06 and .375 H&H Mag are also common. Not a defect, but a positive if ammo ever needs to be sourced.


So a but off topic. But a .270, which could kill well in the 1980's can still kill today.

Same as a .30-06, which also has only a slightly lesser trajectory.

But not fashionable or trendy!



++++


Agree with most, it is perhaps not fashionable or trendy. And yes, I am certain, the 270 or '06 would kill today as well as they did back 40 years ago. However I feel there are other reason as well. Perhaps it is also shooters, hunters, reloaders, competitors are also more informed today?? All the info we can read is at our fingertips on the "net".. whether accurate or not, is another question.

I for one have read, used, shot many more calibers than what was my uncles favorites were back in the day. It is of great interest to me. Ballistics of this caliber or that, along with the advancements in design of bullets by different manufacturers, more info on how ballistics are establishment, new methods in achieving those results, all make a difference. Some of it is hype sure, but also some of it is fact..otherwise the boys competing would not be buying them.

Agree with many suggestions on here of the 6.5 as a great place to start and perhaps end. For the game I would generally hunt in the mtns of the world, can't really think of any that could do as good or better for that matter. The 6.5's are proven to be ballistically superior to those in many other calibers including the 270 and '06. I am not bashing those calibers, just saying for extended ranges, especially those in long distance target shooting, the 6.5 in the last 20 years has proven itself to be a leader and winner.

Those who compete on a regular basis in Long Range Precision Rifle know volumes more than me and yet when you look at the results of the top 100 or 200 shooter for that matter, the 6.5 or 6mm are ruling the roost. Don't think that is just my happenstance. If the 270 or '06 would have been such great marvels in terms of those applications, one would have seen them used a ton in competition as those guys do anything to win, yet, mum is the word. In today's world, if the .270 caliber would be such a great marvel, someone would have necked it up, down or somewhere to make it a competitive long distance round. Yet, nothing. Sure they did come out with the 270WSM, which is a great deer, elk round and an improvement over the old standard .270. However as good as it is, it simply does not stack up to the ballistics of the 6.5 rounds. At least not when you make a fair and accurate comparison. Recently I was reviewing the NEW target bullets by Nosler, again, there is the .22 cal which is for the AR's used in competition, then it goes to the 6, 6.5 and 30's ..NO 270...pretty sure that isn't by accident.

https://www.nosler.com/rdf-bullet


Europeans have been enjoying the benefits of the 6.5 for many many years. Finally, in the last 20 years or so, the shooting community in my part of the planet has figured out there is more to this caliber than talk.

As I have stated many times before, I welcome new advancements, new technology, new calibers. IF someone wants to shoot with a musket, have at it. Have no problem with it. If you want to shoot your .270, go for it. It will do just fine and still kill a deer . However, if someone wants to shoot the latest, greatest, or something different than you like, then offer those who do the same response. Will it be better? Maybe..or not.. As long as you can shoot what you like, why does/would it matter?? Yet so many get their panties all bunched up if someone does..Life is too short, let it go Luke..


Ripp

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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303779 - 07/08/17 01:44 AM

Long range target shooting is an entirely different game, as I see it, from shooting animals.

One must decide for themselves, if the seemingly little pip-squeak calibres of the 'best' mid to long range target rifles is 'better' at killing the animals of chase, over the older, larger bored, heavier bullet firing guns many of us prefer.

There are no definitive answers in this sort of discussion, imho.

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"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #303802 - 07/08/17 11:30 AM

Quote:

Long range target shooting is an entirely different game, as I see it, from shooting animals.

One must decide for themselves, if the seemingly little pip-squeak calibres of the 'best' mid to long range target rifles is 'better' at killing the animals of chase, over the older, larger bored, heavier bullet firing guns many of us prefer.

There are no definitive answers in this sort of discussion, imho.




Agree--much different shooting targets vs animals..entirely different..one will use different calibers and bullets depending on what you are shooting ..target or game.. My point is times and things change..bullet construction is one of them..while the old reliable Partition will still do the same job it did 50 years ago, there are other contenders now that will do just as good or better..perfect example is the Barnes Triple X..one can normally go down in bullet weight if you wish given the bullet construction of that bullet allowing for a possible flatter trajectory..metals have changed, with a general acknowledgment it is considerably better now than it was 50-80 years ago, thus barrels are better and last longer..powders are better..and IMHO, for both target or hunting, some calibers now are better as well.

As to "pip-squeak" caliber..if you are referring to a 6.5..pretty sure there are are thousands of moose shot in Europe in the past 100 years that disagree..

My own experience is I have used a 264W Mag shooting 130 gr Nosler Accubonds (which is suppose to be an improved, modern version of the partition) --shot my first bull elk with it about 10 minutes into the season at a little over 400 yards..one shot, dead..have killed 2 more since then with the same rifle, same results..given my experience, and having been on numerous sheep, goat type hunts, the flatter shooting, lower recoiling 6.5 calibers would be a very nice fit..they are not big animals and seem to tip over quite easily if hit properly..

Agree, there are no definitive answers, we will each make our own decisions on what we feel is the correct choice which will more than likely be different from the next guy asked..my initial post was "perfect long range caliber for mtn game, sheep/ibex...would a '06 or 270 work?? absolutely..but for me that are not in the "perfect category"...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (07/08/17 11:45 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303807 - 07/08/17 12:05 PM

Modern bullets & powders do help with trajectory & killing power, for certain.

In the '06 for instance, a 165gr. starting out at 2,900fps (4 different loads in Horn. manual) with a BC of .447, will do quite well enough over normal hunting ranges.

Friend of mine used a brand new pencil weight stainless laminated M700 with factory Federal 165gr. TSX, for his muley, whitetail, sheep and elk. The elk was the only long shot - 415 laser checked yards. The rest were all under 110yards. None needed more than the first shot. The elk went the furthest thou - a whole shaking 4 steps only and tipped over - dead. He'd been double lunged and the bullet exited, leaving a 1/2" exit hole. The other animals dropped in their tracks, DRT.

The fellow, Shad, had depressed with his new rifle's accuracy of 2 1/2" at 100 meters, with groups stringing as the barrel warmed up. He's a hard working busy contractor with no time for handloading - so he had to shoot factory ammo. I happened to be at the range on his first rifle test- he was not a happy shooter.

I re-bed his rifle for him as Remington had put in about 60pounds forend tip pressure (no wood under the front ring of the action). I had also suggested some ammo he could try as he wanted away from the 180's (Win.. PP's) he'd shot in his old Husky - desiring flatter shooting bullets. After the re-bed, he initially tested Fed 165gr. Fusions and they shot around 3/4" for him at 100 meters so he called me and we met up at the range the next day for further testing. He also picked up another box of Fusion 165's for practice and my suggested Federal 165gr.TSX for hunting. Both loads shot into the same poi at 100 meters.

The factory Feds with the 165TSX, listed just over 2,900fps, seems to me, went 3/8" for a pair of 3 shot groups for me, and he put 5 into 1 1/2" at 200 meters which is 218yards.

Just maybe, the old '06 isn't quite out of date ----- yet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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500Boswell
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303811 - 07/08/17 01:15 PM

A 270 Weatherby mag or a 7mm Weatherby mag

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Postman
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: 500Boswell]
      #303825 - 07/08/17 10:36 PM

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!



Edited by Postman (07/08/17 10:44 PM)


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ducmarc
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Postman]
      #304028 - 14/08/17 11:18 AM

if u want a real fire storm on long range go over to long range hunter forum .used to hang out there when i was all about black bear.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Postman]
      #304050 - 14/08/17 10:17 PM

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!






Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..

As to caliber, also agree for the most part..unless you are shooting over 600 yards or more, dont think it makes that much of a difference..

Makes for an interesting conversation and always fun to hear others perspective..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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ducmarc
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304101 - 16/08/17 11:12 AM

yes Ripp fun talk and we have to talk about something...

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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Rule303
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304132 - 17/08/17 07:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!






Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..

As to caliber, also agree for the most part..unless you are shooting over 600 yards or more, dont think it makes that much of a difference..

Makes for an interesting conversation and always fun to hear others perspective..

Ripp




12 to 14,000 ft and walking is crazy talk That's twice as high as anything found down here. Would not have mind doing that once.

Serious question Ripp. At those altitudes did you have to re sight the rifle for elevation?


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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304144 - 17/08/17 03:06 PM

Quote:



Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..
Ripp




This climbing thing is not something I will EVER have to do- again. A 10 pound rifle is just about right for where I hunt - mind you, it will never be for Stone nor Dall sheep - Tahr or Ibex for that matter.

My 12 1/2 pound Sharps, is a bit heavy nowadays, but shoots fine at the range.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Rule303]
      #304148 - 17/08/17 09:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!






Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..

As to caliber, also agree for the most part..unless you are shooting over 600 yards or more, dont think it makes that much of a difference..

Makes for an interesting conversation and always fun to hear others perspective..

Ripp




12 to 14,000 ft and walking is crazy talk That's twice as high as anything found down here. Would not have mind doing that once.

Serious question Ripp. At those altitudes did you have to re sight the rifle for elevation?




YES, the higher elevation offers thinner air..so the bullet will typically hit a bit higher..it really doesn't matter as I always shoot my rifle to check its zero when I get to camp to make sure it hasn't been knocked off during the flight/travel to the location..I recalibrate the scope and have the software on my phone to tell me where it should be hitting at 100 and 200 --also I alway check the approx. elevation of where I will be hunting and set it for that elevation before I leave..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304186 - 18/08/17 01:30 PM

Ripp,

Thanks for the information.

Greg


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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Postman]
      #325978 - 18/03/19 04:15 AM

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!






Found this old post from days gone by.. peaked my interest in that I have done a couple more higher elevation hunts since.. thus far, my caliber of choice has been the 280AI .. using 140gr Nosler Accubonds.. its hell on wheels for the sheep/goat species... Has been very effective for long ranges as well as close.. really like that caliber for this type of hunting..

Built another lightweight last year..was too late to get a load worked up for it and to really use it..but,IF, I were to go for Marco Polo--will take it.. its in 28 Nosler.. loaded with 175gr bullets its still sending them at 3150fps .. very high bc bullets..

Good advice above...which is why I "quoted" it..

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #325981 - 18/03/19 04:52 AM

3,150 with 175's is smoking!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #325997 - 18/03/19 01:43 PM

Quote:

3,150 with 175's is smoking!




Agree--surprised myself--and really no signs of pressure..that was chronographed using Swift Scirocco's I loaded for elk..will load something with a higher BC for long range use on sheep/goat species..

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Homer
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #326055 - 19/03/19 01:07 PM

Quote:

3,150 with 175's is smoking!



+1 Daryl & Ripp.

Whilst I have some experience (probably 5 weeks in total, hunting Alpine Game in NZ (Tahr & Chammy/Chamois), I came to a few conclusions.
The chambering and barrel length required, is dependant on animal size/weight (obviously), and the shooting distances, you might expect.
The other conclusion I worked out a long time ago, was there is no such thing as over kill!

Hope that helps

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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rigbymauser
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Homer]
      #326068 - 19/03/19 11:23 PM

I must say the .270wea is THE caliber for me. 180 grain bullets @ +3000 ft/sec or 150grain @ 3280 ft/sec. I haven`t shot ibex but if the .270wea works on kudu, gemsbok etc it works on ibex.

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maral
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: rigbymauser]
      #326396 - 25/03/19 07:09 PM

"The mountain rifle" for me, would be a Kipplauf from Herbert Scheiring in 7x75R SE Von Hofe. Light, accurate, takedown, but unfortunally has a "bespoke price".

Å more realistic choice would be a Blaser K95 in 270WBY or 6,5x65R RWS


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rigbymauser
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: maral]
      #326403 - 25/03/19 11:47 PM

Quote:

"The mountain rifle" for me, would be a Kipplauf from Herbert Scheiring in 7x75R SE Von Hofe. Light, accurate, takedown, but unfortunally has a "bespoke price".

Å more realistic choice would be a Blaser K95 in 270WBY or 6,5x65R RWS




Blaser K77 in 6,5x68R or 7x75R Vom Hofe


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008
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: rigbymauser]
      #326408 - 26/03/19 12:51 AM

My mountain gun is also a Rifles inc in 300 win mag, probably a bit much for sheep but is a great all around er imo. Easy to carry, very accurate, vastly forgiving.

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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: 008]
      #326414 - 26/03/19 03:57 AM

I'm past climbing, but I hunt in the mountains - I guess this
area has mountains. Valleys of moose at any rate. Never
hunted any sheep or goats, but a lighter rifle in one of the
accurate fast twist 6.5's would be my choice with longer,
heavier 140gr. high BC bullets, A-max, ELD or whatever.
The Nosler 6.5 version comes to mind.
With tougher bullets it would also work well on moose and elk.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #326448 - 26/03/19 06:11 PM

Quote:

I'm past climbing, but I hunt in the mountains - I guess this
area has mountains. Valleys of moose at any rate. Never
hunted any sheep or goats, but a lighter rifle in one of the
accurate fast twist 6.5's would be my choice with longer,
heavier 140gr. high BC bullets, A-max, ELD or whatever.
The Nosler 6.5 version comes to mind.
With tougher bullets it would also work well on moose and elk.




Agree-- a nice 6.5 for most would be perfect...good selection of bullets, great BC ..plenty of horsepower...

As stated earlier, for most shots out to 4-500 yards, not sure it makes much difference.. they are all very close.. really like my little 280AI.. surprising how it drops game..even out there to 600yds...with the little 140gr Accubonds..


Quote:

My mountain gun is also a Rifles inc in 300 win mag, probably a bit much for sheep but is a great all around er imo. Easy to carry, very accurate, vastly forgiving.




Rifles Inc are great guns... very light and very accurate... that 300 Win is a great caliber..IMHO, perfect for pretty much anything non-dangerous game related... with plenty of energy way, way out there...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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