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Ripp
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THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington
      #299866 - 01/05/17 05:53 AM

http://sportsafield.com/the-6-5-comes-alive/

THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE
– by Craig Boddington

The 6.5mm is red hot—and for good reason!
At the 2017 SHOT Show I was surprised and bemused to find that, in the sporting rifle world, the 6.5mm Creedmoor cartridge was the talk of the show. Suddenly everybody is chambering for it—more rifles and more loads, apparently feeding a growing demand. This was surprising because the Creedmoor isn’t new; it’s a ten-year-old cartridge, developed by Hornady’s Dave Emary and his engineers as a long-range competition cartridge, designed for accuracy. Long-range shooting is more popular than ever, but this market still isn’t big enough to fuel such a furor, so it seems obvious that American hunters are discovering the Creedmoor.

Bemusing because it is, after all, a 6.5mm, caliber .264—a popular European diameter that has never done well over here. Exactly why is hard to explain, but some bullet diameters have remained primarily “American,” others “European,” and a smaller number are truly universal. The .25-caliber, diameter .257-inch, is primarily American, hearkening back to our .25-35 in 1895. The .270, diameter .277-inch, is primarily American, going back to the .270 Winchester introduced in 1925. The 7mm, diameter .284-inch is one of the universal favorites, as is our own .30-caliber. Numbers are boring, but they don’t lie, so let’s take a quick look at numbers. The difference in bullet diameter between the .257 and the 6.5mm is .007-inch, not much. The difference between the 6.5mm and the .270 is .013-inch, still not much. The leap from .270 to 7mm is another tiny .007 inch. So the whole difference from our .25s to the 7mms is .027-inch. In comparison, the leap from 7mm to our .30-caliber (.308-inch) is .024-inch. I think I can argue that the .30-caliber takes a noticeable upward leap in bullet weight, frontal area, and performance on game (along with attendant increase in recoil)…but the upward steps from .25 to 6.5mm to .270 to 7mm are more subtle.

The 26 Nosler was still experimental when I used it to take an ibex in Turkey in 2013. I was all set up for a long shot, but wound up flattening this big-bodied goat with a single 130-grain AccuBond at less than 150 yards.

This is a crowded field, and since 1925 Americans haven’t made much room for the 6.5mm. Prior to the .270 early 6.5s made inroads in this country, but only the 6.5×55 Swedish Mauser hangs on. Despite several attempts the track record for domestic 6.5mms hasn’t been good. I can come up with about eight domestic 6.5mm sporting cartridges from major manufacturers in the last hundred years—provided we include the 6.5-284 Norma, American-designed but standardized by Norma, and ignore the 6.5mm Grendel, more of a tactical number for the AR15 platform. Of these, half have attempted to avoid the curse of the 6.5mm by using English designations: .256 Newton, 1913; .264 Winchester Magnum, 1958; .260 Remington, 1997; and 26 Nosler, 2014. Success of this ploy is obviously mixed. The .256 Newton is long gone and the .264 is just hanging on. Reception to the .308-based .260 Remington has been slow, although seems to be picking up now as part of the new 6.5mm craze. When introduced the 26 Nosler was the fastest factory 6.5mm ever and garnered a lot of headlines, but the jury is still out.

Cartridges designated “6.5mm” have also enjoyed mixed results. The 6.5mm Remington Magnum (1966) is pretty much a dead duck. Using the fat, rebated rim .284 Winchester case, Norma’s 6.5-284 (1999) was, like the Creedmoor, designed for long-range competition. It has done well in 1000-yard competition and, like the Creedmoor, has spilled over into the hunting market. As with the 26 Nosler, it’s too early to speculate on the 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum, formally introduced just a year ago. The Weatherby number is faster, pretty much the last word in fast 6.5mm cartridges. As drawbacks, it is based on a long belted case, clearly no longer the style. But it is fast and has earned its headlines. Now time will tell.

The 6.5mm has much going for it. From the 1890s 6.5mm bullets have traditionally been long for caliber, which means they hold velocity well. Much heavier bullets are available than for our .25s; though the diameter leap is small, there’s a big difference between the most common 140-grain 6.5mm and the heavy 120-grain .25-caliber bullet. Against the .270 bullet weights are similar and performance on game is similar—but today we have 6.5mm cartridges designed for utmost accuracy, while the .270s have been developed as sporting cartridges.

In long-range shooting (as opposed to long-range hunting) retained energy means nothing. All bullet drops are measured in yards, so trajectory becomes just a series of numbers to calculate. Likewise wind deflection. Three things do matter. First is accuracy; second that the bullet remain supersonic to 1000 yards so as to avoid the accuracy-robbing turbulence of crossing the sound barrier a second time (the first crossing happens in the barrel); third is that it gets this done with as little recoil as possible. It turns out that with aerodynamic shape, the high Ballistic Coefficient (BC) of the long-for-caliber 6.5mm bullet enables it to remain supersonic to 1000 yards without a whole lot of velocity. It depends on the bullet shape, but a good 140-grain 6.5mm spitzer at a modest 2700 fps or so will get the job done. So, in good barrels with match-grade bullets and good ammo, and in skilled hands, the .260 Remington, 6.5mm Creedmoor, and 6.5-284 Norma have all been placing in a lot of matches. Thousand-yard competition means little to the larger hunting market. But it’s nice to have accuracy and efficiency without getting beaten up.


There is another number long associated with the 6.5mm: high Sectional Density (SD). Essentially an index of weight to diameter, if bullet construction and velocity are similar then a higher SD translates to deeper penetration on game. Hunters discovered this about the 6.5mm in the 1890s, using early military 6.5mms with heavy full-metal-jacket bullets to take game all the way up to elephants. A long time has passed since anybody thought a 6.5mm was adequate for pachyderms, and in most American jurisdictions “FMJs” are illegal for hunting. But the principle remains. Because of bullet weight the 6.5mm is better for larger game than the .25s, and about equal to the .270s. With the 7mms we have to compare apples to apples. There isn’t much to choose between a 140-grain 6.5mm and a 140-grain 7mm if velocity and bullet construction are similar…but there’s a difference if you step up to a 175-grain 7mm bullet!

Bottom line: Our milder 6.5mms are awesome for deer-sized game at moderate ranges. This includes not just our modern cartridges—the .260 Remington, 6.5mm Creedmoor, and 6.5-284 Norma—but also oldies but goodies like the 6.5×55. With more careful bullet selection all can certainly be used for game up to elk, but for hunting, as opposed to target shooting, higher velocity translates to more downrange energy projected; flatter trajectory that simplifies shooting solutions; and reduced flight time, which decreases wind deflection. Steve Hornady, ever loyal to his own cartridges, has done a fair amount of mountain hunting with his 6.5mm Creedmoor. I would prefer not to. To me this is where the fast 6.5mms come in. None of them, whether the .264, 26 Nosler, or 6.5-300 Weatherby, are likely to develop reputations for winning matches. But they project more energy farther, are better for larger game such as elk and the general run of African plains game…and better for mountain game. Considering the power level, recoil remains surprisingly mild.

It seems to me more American hunters and shooters are rediscovering the 6.5mm. It’s really amazing to walk a mild 6.5mm out to 1000 yards. It’s equally amazing to see how well they perform on deer-sized game, just as they did in the 1890s. But there are really two paths, efficiency and low recoil; and high velocity performance. I’m still a fan of the .264, but now with two faster choices I doubt it will make a comeback. Both the 26 Nosler and the 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum are a lot faster. I’ve used both, and it’s amazing how fast the bullet gets there!

The fast 6.5s aren’t for everybody; the big surge right now seems to be toward the Creedmoor. The point, however, is that suddenly we have more 6.5mm choices than ever before. The Europeans have long recognized it as an exceptionally useful bullet diameter. It seems to me we backward Americans are finally catching on!

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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93x64mm
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Ripp]
      #299869 - 01/05/17 07:20 AM

My pick - 6.5x55mm

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: 93x64mm]
      #299882 - 01/05/17 04:38 PM

So many real 6.5mm's missed from the article. But probably not chambered in the current newly fashionable rifles being released this year, so no benefit in mentioning them if trying to tout new rifle sales in an article.

Such excellent examples as the .256 Mannlicher.Schoenauer/6.5x54mm M-S, 6.5x53R, 6.5x57 and R version, 6.5x68 and R, 6.5x65, and probably an R version as well. No doubt others. All European so missed off the Boddington radar.

I have a 6.5x53R Steyr in a military rifle for a future (who knows when?) custom project. A 6.5x55 M96, superbly accurate, mil rifle with a synthetic stock. A loaner for visitors. A 6.5x54 M-S in a cut back mil stutzen type stock. It will do until I get a nice civilian model. And a barrel in 6.5x65 RWS for my Mauser M03.

As I have mentioned many times, I really wanted the 6.5x68 in the M03 barrel but not available. Now even the 6.5mm is off the Mauser books.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Waidmannsheil
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: NitroX]
      #299887 - 01/05/17 06:58 PM

One of the big differences that I have noticed between Craig Boddington and Terry Wieland is that Boddington talks mainly about American guns and ammunition whereas Wieland talks about both American and older English or European rounds. I find him a lot more balanced. If the same article was written by Wieland than all the European 6.5's would have been included as well. I have read both their Safari books and IMO Wieland's book is much more interesting.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Hoot
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #299898 - 01/05/17 10:40 PM

Boddington should learn to keep quiet. That Americans don't like 6.5's means there's more for folks like me. Now that the 'secret' is out, prices will climb out of my reach. Thanks Craig.

Tongue in cheek of course. In residence here: .256 Newton, 6.5x55 Ruger M77 and (cough) 5-6.5x53R's. Still not sure how they multiply...


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Ripp
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #299900 - 01/05/17 10:55 PM

Quote:

One of the big differences that I have noticed between Craig Boddington and Terry Wieland is that Boddington talks mainly about American guns and ammunition whereas Wieland talks about both American and older English or European rounds. I find him a lot more balanced. If the same article was written by Wieland than all the European 6.5's would have been included as well. I have read both their Safari books and IMO Wieland's book is much more interesting.

Waidmannsheil.




Agree--I really enjoy reading both, but Wieland's books on double rifles were a lot of fun to read. Boddington certainly has more experience in the fields of Africa..but.....

++
Quote:

Boddington should learn to keep quiet. That Americans don't like 6.5's means there's more for folks like me. Now that the 'secret' is out, prices will climb out of my reach. Thanks Craig.

Tongue in cheek of course. In residence here: .256 Newton, 6.5x55 Ruger M77 and (cough) 5-6.5x53R's. Still not sure how they multiply...




not sure how things are over there but in this part of the world the 6.5's have really taken off at the gun ranges..again with the Creedmore seeming to taking front and center..but many others as well ....6.5x55 along with the .264 W Mag are being seen more and more as well..maybe I am just noticing them more..??

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (01/05/17 10:58 PM)


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Ripp]
      #299904 - 01/05/17 11:12 PM

Ripp, quite agree. I enjoy reading his articles in Handloader magazine and I have some of his other books, "Spanish Best" and "Vintage British Shotguns" which are both very good. I always feel that the way that he writes makes you feel as if you are sitting around a campfire together having a chat.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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xausa
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Ripp]
      #299905 - 01/05/17 11:26 PM

Americans got in the 6.5mm business in 1913, with the development of Charles Newton's .256 Newton, a factory loaded cartridge for many years, up until the mid 1930's. Based on a slightly shortened .30-'06 case, the Newton would have been called a 6.5X62 in Europe.

Factory loads included a 123 grain bullet at 3103 fps. and a 140 grain bullet at 3000. The more modern 6.5X54 Brenneke and 6.5X65 RWS would not outperform it significantly with modern powders. Why Newton decided to use the British nomenclature, which reflects the bore, rather than groove diameter, remains a mystery. He did the same with other cartridges he developed, such as the .250-3000 Savage and the .22 Savage High Power (groove diameters .247" and .228", respectively).

Had Winchester not decided to use a "bastard" .277" (6.7mm) caliber (shared only with an obscure Chinese Mauser cartridge), and had offered the Newton cartridge in their Models 54 and 70 rifles, the .256 would still be going strong. It is a potent cartridge, as attested by the two deer I took with my Model 1916 Newton rifle last December.


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Huvius
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: xausa]
      #299911 - 02/05/17 05:41 AM

So, honestly, if one were to have a 6.5X54 with a twist for lighter bullets, would there be any advantage to the Creedmoor?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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gryphon
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Huvius]
      #299914 - 02/05/17 06:24 AM

One of the Aussie members here runs a 6.5x47 Lapua,he say they are the ducks nuts and apparently they are the tack drivers of tack drivers yet havent been mentioned as yet unless I missed it.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Iowa_303s
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Huvius]
      #299925 - 02/05/17 11:42 AM

Quote:

So, honestly, if one were to have a 6.5X54 with a twist for lighter bullets, would there be any advantage to the Creedmoor?



Huvius,
What advantage would you gain by going to a slower rate of twist for a lighter bullet.
140 grain spitzers are the same length as 160 round nose bullets and 129's are only a bit shorter.
My 1903 MS carbine seems to handle bullets from 129 through 160 grain about equally.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Rule303
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: NitroX]
      #299927 - 02/05/17 11:57 AM

John I would think a 6.5X68 would fair scoot along. Probably the fastest 6.5 until the 260 Nosler came out.

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Ripp
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Huvius]
      #299928 - 02/05/17 12:28 PM

Quote:

So, honestly, if one were to have a 6.5X54 with a twist for lighter bullets, would there be any advantage to the Creedmoor?




I had posted this some time ago--found it interesting...

http://rifleshooter.com/2016/10/why-not-...or-6-creedmoor/

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: gryphon]
      #299929 - 02/05/17 12:31 PM

Quote:

One of the Aussie members here runs a 6.5x47 Lapua,he say they are the ducks nuts and apparently they are the tack drivers of tack drivers yet havent been mentioned as yet unless I missed it.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html




check out the info on the post above on my reply to Huvius....gives a good explanation on some of the 6.5's currently being used..

thx
Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Huvius
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #299930 - 02/05/17 12:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So, honestly, if one were to have a 6.5X54 with a twist for lighter bullets, would there be any advantage to the Creedmoor?



Huvius,
What advantage would you gain by going to a slower rate of twist for a lighter bullet.
140 grain spitzers are the same length as 160 round nose bullets and 129's are only a bit shorter.
My 1903 MS carbine seems to handle bullets from 129 through 160 grain about equally.




I see, didn't see that it was loaded with 140-147s.
So, I guess my question should be, with modern powders, is the Creedmoor somehow inherently better at anything than the 6.5MS or the 6.5 Carcano?
Other than the shoulder angle, not much between them. 20 thou in base and less body taper to the shoulder on the Creedmoor but the MS and Carcano are a little longer. Is case capacity that different?









--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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xausa
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Huvius]
      #299931 - 02/05/17 01:10 PM

Don't forget this one. It's been around since the early 1900's, and the case capacity and dimensions are virtually the same as the .260 Remington and the Creedmore:



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Huvius
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: xausa]
      #299933 - 02/05/17 01:49 PM

So true.
And I didn't even think of the 6.5 Kurz Mauser!

--------------------
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Ripp
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Huvius]
      #299953 - 03/05/17 12:44 AM

Quote:

So true.
And I didn't even think of the 6.5 Kurz Mauser!




Really enjoy these types of threads..learn something all the time.. I had/have very little knowledge of the 6.5 Kurz---interesting to read..thx to all for posting

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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szihn
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Ripp]
      #299968 - 03/05/17 09:51 AM

My 2 favorite 6.5MM cartridges are the 6.5 Swede (which I don't have) and the 6.5X54 Mann/Scho (which I do have.

I hope to kill some deer, antelope and maybe an elk with my Mannlicher this year. I use 160 grain Hornady Round Nose bullets. Muzzle Velocity is 2250 FPS. The rifle has irons only, blades for 100,200 and 300 yards. This rifles just doesn't like to feed the spitzers and jams the tips into the barrel below the chamber with them, so I'll stick what the bullet it was loaded with "way back when"

If I am blessed with good hunting I'll hopefully post some pictures. I don't usually take a camera, but my friends that I will hunt with this year do.


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DarylS
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: szihn]
      #299977 - 03/05/17 12:14 PM

Now that you mention it, Steve - I-too have a 6.5, but mine is a Swede, mil-spec sights, but I probably will put a black stock on it.

It has a new-like barrel - so I guess I should load up some 160's as I have both Hornady and Sierra- for testing. It might be fun to pack that one this fall and leave the scopes at home.

I am still thinking in terms of my .45/70 Marlin with 450gr. FN's or the .50/95 Winchester with the 350fr, FN's. I was able to get to the 1,000 meter AR500 buffalo with the .50/95's ladder sight, but ran out of ammo before ringing his chimes.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: DarylS]
      #299979 - 03/05/17 12:19 PM

Hornady makes their 160 now and then,(limited production) but Sierra discontinued theirs.

I want to get enough 160s to last me for a long time when I can find them and afford them at the same time.
I don't want to be without. I think Woodleigh makes them too, but they sure can cost a lot in the USA.


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Iowa_303s
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: szihn]
      #299980 - 03/05/17 12:30 PM

My 6.5x55 does not like the 160 grain Hornady round nose as well as it likes their 129 & 140 spitzers.
Not a bad dislike but it definitely likes the lighter bullets better.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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SharpsNitro
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #300334 - 11/05/17 01:54 PM

Is Boddington auditioning to replace Captain Obvious on the TV commercials? Not sure what he has to add at this point other than to keep his name out there and try and stay relevant.

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cordite
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #300442 - 18/05/17 07:34 AM

I'm perfectly content with the 6.5x54 and it's rimmed counterpart the 6.5x53r, both with 160 round noses. Nothing newer will out perform them at the ranges I hunt. I have no interest in sniping animals at long distances.

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dons
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Re: THE 6.5 COMES ALIVE---by Craig Boddington [Re: Huvius]
      #300443 - 18/05/17 07:52 AM

The Mauser 6.5x57 was Walter Roll's favorite all around hunting round.

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