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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Assault weapons [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91339 - 12/12/07 03:38 PM

Ditto--
Its a real bunch of sickies in Government when a homeowner attacked in his own home cannot legally defend himself.What do the idiotic cretins want you to do about an armed intruder anyway?
Call you politico's up and clearly tell them to stuff it and if they refuse, change countries.

Scream long and clear--Citizens reap what they sow--be heard!!

In the states the criminals are more scared of civilians cause they kill twice as many perps as the police.

On a different note the sickie involved in the UTAH mall shootings used a shotgun and a 38 pistol. The police apparently responded after an off duty cop occupied the scumbag's attention till help arrived.The police ended that rampage.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17124042/

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Assault weapons [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91346 - 12/12/07 04:43 PM

Quote:

If I lived in a country where it is "illegal to grab your firearm and use it against" an intruder that was threatening my family, quite honestly I'd find another country.




Actually this is not "illegal" in Australia at all. Australia is made up of states with different legislation sames as the USA. In some of the states a person may "use reasonable force, that they personally consider reasonable, to defend themselves, other people and property against threatening intruders".

So in South Aust for example, how does this work?

If a burglar enters your house and you think you are in danger you can defend yourself with a firearm.

Obviously if you shoot a fleeing burglar in the back you will have legal problems.

You can not own a firearm for this purpose though, it must have a sporting or business reason for ownership.

(PS I am not giving legal advice above.)

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Assault weapons [Re: NitroX]
      #91354 - 12/12/07 08:39 PM

Correction--

Sorry-Regarding the most recent shooting days ago, not months ago,the weapon WAS apparently an SKS--

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/05/mall.shooting/index.html

my mistake,

Moral of this--be armed, cause it may be the mall your visiting tomorrow!!Really sad someone wasn't armed to deal with this POS when it happened--

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (12/12/07 08:44 PM)


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Assault weapons [Re: hoppdoc]
      #91396 - 13/12/07 10:27 AM

Technically, ALL the carry laws in the states are a violation of the 2nd amendment---It is a basic right!

Governments 24,000 firearm laws are in direct violation of the 2nd too-

The Supremes will never overturn all carry laws because of their "greater good" socialistic undercurrent for supporting bad legislation.

Interesting that states have differing approaches to gun ownership-In most you can obtain a handgun for "defensive" purposes at the age of 21 but use a rifle at 16!! Differing legal standards are used in different states. Guess the handgun is considered a worse threat than a rifle--yet the rifle is a more effective firearm for its purpose of aimed fire.

What % of the population actually carries?? ?Maybe about 3% most of the time and triple that at night, maybe more around my part of the country.

What % have assault weapons?? Supposedly I have read as high as 30% of all gunowners have an assualt type rifle!! Fascinating!!

Are more people carrying firearms in your country??
Are those folks hunting and carrying firearms getting larger or smaller? In the states the numbers of hunters are decreasing rapidly.

Sadly as we have smaller numbers our influence and effectiveness decrease dramatically.We must remain a small and vocal group to be effective or our guns and gun rights will disappear!!

Sorry for rambling so much---

Edited by hoppdoc (13/12/07 10:32 AM)


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Assault weapons [Re: NitroX]
      #91406 - 13/12/07 11:22 AM

Interesting statistical info on Reuters..please see below--not sure on the accuracy of all this...

In the 1990's there was a survey which found there is 3.4 firearms in every home in Montana...which is why our crime rate is as low as it is--thieves, rapists, burglers, etc..know being a bad guy can have very negative consequences to their health.. recently a guy come into a local bar here with a 12 gauge to rob the place during business hours---several of the locals got up.. took him down..beat him to the point of hospitalizing him..made him appologize to the waitress.. hog tied him with duct tape and called the cops to come and get him... pretty cool..

Ripp


SEE INFO BELOW FROM REUTERS:

U.S. most armed country with 90 guns per 100 people
Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:57pm EDT
By Laura MacInnis

GENEVA (Reuters) - The United States has 90 guns for every 100 citizens, making it the most heavily armed society in the world, a report released on Tuesday said.

U.S. citizens own 270 million of the world's 875 million known firearms, according to the Small Arms Survey 2007 by the Geneva-based Graduate Institute of International Studies.

About 4.5 million of the 8 million new guns manufactured worldwide each year are purchased in the United States, it said.

"There is roughly one firearm for every seven people worldwide. Without the United States, though, this drops to about one firearm per 10 people," it said.

India had the world's second-largest civilian gun arsenal, with an estimated 46 million firearms outside law enforcement and the military, though this represented just four guns per 100 people there. China, ranked third with 40 million privately held guns, had 3 firearms per 100 people.

Germany, France, Pakistan, Mexico, Brazil and Russia were next in the ranking of country's overall civilian gun arsenals.

On a per-capita basis, Yemen had the second most heavily armed citizenry behind the United States, with 61 guns per 100 people, followed by Finland with 56, Switzerland with 46, Iraq with 39 and Serbia with 38.

France, Canada, Sweden, Austria and Germany were next, each with about 30 guns per 100 people, while many poorer countries often associated with violence ranked much lower. Nigeria, for instance, had just one gun per 100 people.

"Firearms are very unevenly distributed around the world. The image we have of certain regions such as Africa or Latin America being awash with weapons -- these images are certainly misleading," Small Arms Survey director Keith Krause said.

"Weapons ownership may be correlated with rising levels of wealth, and that means we need to think about future demand in parts of the world where economic growth is giving people larger disposable income," he told a Geneva news conference.

The report, which relied on government data, surveys and media reports to estimate the size of world arsenals, estimated there were 650 million civilian firearms worldwide, and 225 million held by law enforcement and military forces.

Five years ago, the Small Arms Survey had estimated there were a total of just 640 million firearms globally.

"Civilian holdings of weapons worldwide are much larger than we previously believed," Krause said, attributing the increase largely to better research and more data on weapon distribution networks.

Only about 12 percent of civilian weapons are thought to be registered with authorities.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: Ripp]
      #91439 - 13/12/07 03:23 PM

Further reflection and fact finding reveals my local sheriffs data/info on the prevalence of "assault" weapons at 30% of the gunowners encountered is somewhat biased!!!

Probably by the nature of the scummy people he deals with.

Stats during the 10 years of the assault weapons ban reveal that over 5 million such weapons were purchased vs a total of 50 million total for those years--they were 10% of the weapons bought.

Moral-The bad guys DO seek out such firearms preferentially-- you had better be prepared to deal with such scum.

Edited by hoppdoc (13/12/07 03:28 PM)


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EricD
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: Ripp]
      #91466 - 13/12/07 09:40 PM

Quote:


In the 1990's there was a survey which found there is 3.4 firearms in every home in Montana...which is why our crime rate is as low as it is--thieves, rapists, burglers, etc..know being a bad guy can have very negative consequences to their health..




There was a study published in the «Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy» a while ago that showed there is no connection between a high number of guns and a high number of murders in society. In fact the study showed that a high number of guns actually decreases the likelihood of murders in a neighborhood.

So all the BS the anti-gunners spew out is pure propaganda without any scientific reality.

In countries such as Russia, the number of murders is about 4 times what is found in the US. Even though Russia has only 4000 guns per 100.000 citizens!

According to the study, 5,6 murders are committed per 100.000 citizens in the US (nationwide).

I Norway, 0,81 murders are committed per 100.000, despite have 36000 gun owners per 100.000 (36%).

In Denmark, there is 1.21 murders per 100.000, and 19% of the 100.000 are gun owners. In Sweden: 1.87 murders, and 24% gun owners.

Which is interesting, as Norway, Sweden and Denmark have basically the same culture, yet Norway has the least murders despite the highest number of guns per person.

In an extreme end, Luxembourg has 9.01 murders with virtually NO gun owners! And then there is Russia, with only 4% gun owners, yet 20.54 murders per 100.000!

The study showed that the 9 European countries with fewest guns have less then 5% gun owners, yet 3 times as many murder as the 9 countries that allow guns to be owned and where over 15% of the population are gun owners.

The study mentions that on average, gun owners in the US have a higher education, "better" jobs, and are more critical to violence than those who do not own guns!

The study also mentions that 90-95% of the violent criminals in the US have a long, serious crime records, and often a record of mental instability. Thus, they can't buy guns legally anyway and banning general gun ownership wouldn't have any impact on the crimes they commit.

I don't have a link to the study itself (just saved some of it on my hard drive), but I am sure it can easily be found by searching a bit on the internet.

Erik


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: EricD]
      #91467 - 13/12/07 10:23 PM

Which country has the most guns??

The US has 270 million or 90 guns per 100 people.
That is the highest in the world.

Australia has 15 guns per 100 people.

Only 1/2 of one percent of US guns are used in criminal acts and a firearm is found in 50% of US households!!

If a criminal burgles 3 houses the odds of him finding a firearm is theoretically 100%.

Gun Control is useless in the US--

In the US you need to be prepared to encounter bad guys who are armed cause most likely they will be!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: EricD]
      #91472 - 14/12/07 12:21 AM

Quote:

So all the BS the anti-gunners spew out is pure propaganda without any scientific reality. Erik




Very interesting.

Erik, have you ever seen a report or study estimating the number of guns owned by Europeans that "fell from the sky" or were recovered and hidden during or immediately after World War 2?

I have not, though anecdotal evidence in speaking to folks I know from various countries {specifically, Norway, France and Finland} seems to me to indicate that there must be a large number of guns possessed by European farmers and others, guns which are unrecorded in the various government registrations and guns that are not involved in crime.

As I understand it, some of these guns were indeed involved in various criminal acts after the war and they do pop up every now and then but once the political situation settled down they have in essence remained "underground" and while their existence is not reported, they would add to the number of guns owned by individuals, guns that are largely not used in crime, EXCEPT for the mere fact that owning them represents a crime.

And I am not speaking about singleshot shotguns, but rather STEN's, US Carbines, Enfields, MG42's, MG34's, Suomis, Beretta SMG's, MP38/40's, and in the "East" I suspect PPSh41's, Sudeyevs, Maxims, etc, in short, a smattering of the weapons issued in the war.

And that's not even talking about the Mills bombs and various other grenades, Panzerfäuste, land mines, etc...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: iqbal]
      #91536 - 14/12/07 02:23 PM

The usefulness of assault weapons has been studied.

Are such weapons effective?

What caliber is most effective?

They ONCE had studies in Nam which studied the 223 and said it was more lethal than a 7.62 caliber!!

Recent studies and experience suggest that the varmint caliber is not the "killer" wanted.The 6.8 is under evaluation as a superior round!! Hunters could have told them that by its ballistic features.

The M4 is being refined further by HK into a more reliable,maintenance free firearm!!

A good reference--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: hoppdoc]
      #91561 - 14/12/07 09:44 PM

Half the problem with so-called "assault" weapons is the name. You guys are talking about using them for the exact opposite purpose- "defense".

In Australia, firearms are very rarely needed for defence in the home. I can't quote the home-invasion statistics for either country, but they don't really matter. The point is that most American gun-owners believe they need a gun in the home to defend themselves against home-invading felons, most Australians do not.

Not being allowed to own a firearm for the specific purpose of self-defence in Australia might be seen by an American to be a loss of personal freedom, whereas an Australian might suggest that needing a firearm for self defence in the home is symptomatic of a far greater loss of freedom.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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hoppdoc
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: Marrakai]
      #91566 - 14/12/07 10:36 PM

Looking at Recorded crime in Australia--

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2006/01_recorded_crime.html

202,483 violent crimes were noted for a population of 20,434,776 giving a 0.9%violent crime rate.

The American violent crime rate is approximately 500% higher!!! Yes,the states ARE more dangerous!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Assault weapons [Re: 9.3x57]
      #91567 - 14/12/07 10:41 PM

Quote:



Erik, have you ever seen a report or study estimating the number of guns owned by Europeans that "fell from the sky" or were recovered and hidden during or immediately after World War 2?





I haven't seen such a study. However, I know for a fact that quite a few guns were floating around after WWII. But these were mainly M98's, and Luger pistols. I'm sure other weapons were also out there. Every now and then a newspaper article pops up with someone finding an old gun or grenade hidden (intentionally) inside some wall or something by some long deceased person. But at least here in Norway, I don't think the number of weapons from that period are high. And probably just a drop in the ocean compared to all the illegal weapons smuggled in by criminals.

Erik


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Assault weapons [Re: EricD]
      #91591 - 15/12/07 03:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Erik, have you ever seen a report or study estimating the number of guns owned by Europeans that "fell from the sky" or were recovered and hidden during or immediately after World War 2?





I haven't seen such a study. However, I know for a fact that quite a few guns were floating around after WWII. But these were mainly M98's, and Luger pistols. I'm sure other weapons were also out there. Every now and then a newspaper article pops up with someone finding an old gun or grenade hidden (intentionally) inside some wall or something by some long deceased person. But at least here in Norway, I don't think the number of weapons from that period are high. And probably just a drop in the ocean compared to all the illegal weapons smuggled in by criminals.

Erik




we do have quite a few of those guns around here, but it is mostly stenguns, k98, p08(luger) and the like. they seldom come up as gangster weapons, they want and get new ones.

peter


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peter
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: EricD]
      #91592 - 15/12/07 03:38 AM

Quote:



In Norway, 0,81 murders are committed per 100.000, despite have 36000 gun owners per 100.000 (36%).

In Denmark, there is 1.21 murders per 100.000, and 19% of the 100.000 are gun owners. In Sweden: 1.87 murders, and 24% gun owners.

Which is interesting, as Norway, Sweden and Denmark have basically the same culture, yet Norway has the least murders despite the highest number of guns per person.





the reason for that goes without saying, we got better and cheap boze you dont...

peter

Edited by peter (15/12/07 03:39 AM)


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Assault weapons [Re: hoppdoc]
      #91676 - 16/12/07 01:16 AM

Quote:

Looking at Recorded crime in Australia--

http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2006/01_recorded_crime.html

202,483 violent crimes were noted for a population of 20,434,776 giving a 0.9%violent crime rate.

The American violent crime rate is approximately 500% higher!!! Yes,the states ARE more dangerous!!






The violent crime rate you described above being 500% higher is very subject to location in the US.. In my state--violent crime is extremely low to nonexistant.. where as you get to a place like Washington DC, where at the moment, its next to immpossible to own a gun much less a handgun,and yes crime there is out of control.. the criminals know you can't protect yourself and therefore the women, elderly, etc. are much more prone to attack. Conversly, look at what happened to crime in some of Florida's counties within 2 years after they passed the "concealed carry law" were many had crime rates fall by half within that time frame.

In all the info I have researched, the highest crime areas have the most restictive gun laws..wow, who would have thunked it..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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GoneShootin
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Reged: 18/07/07
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: Ripp]
      #91741 - 16/12/07 02:45 PM

I think the most valid point with the whole issue on gun control is:

No matter what you do, the crims will ALWAYS have firearms.

IMO the classic example of this was that there was a period of greatly increased handgun theft (that is theft of legal handguns from private shooters, security guards AND police officers) in NSW around 2003-2005 (from memory) and the Police minister from parliament basically said that the reason was because the police were working too hard in reducing the number of illegal handguns. In other words, when they reduce the number of handguns the crims have, well they do what crims do best and go out and steal more, by any means necessary.

As naive as they are the Coalition for Gun Control (spit at the ground) resonse was to push for complete ban on handguns "so that criminals cant steal the lawful ones.


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Ripp
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: GoneShootin]
      #91797 - 17/12/07 10:58 AM

To further back that up--just read an article today by an author --John R Lott, JR. -book was called "FREEDOMNOMICS" --who did a 10 year study on guns and crimes with guns in the U.S... One of the big arguments anti-gunner Sarah Brady had stated was if the "Assault Weapons Ban" would not be renewed, crime along with murders would skyrocket... After it was non-renewed in 2004--the following year--2005--murders in the US decreased nationwide 3%.. wow..guess old Sarah had that one WRONG....

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: GoneShootin]
      #91814 - 17/12/07 02:36 PM

Another fact is obvious from comparing different areas for crime. Ripp lives in a low crime area, I do not!!

I live in one of the worst 15 cities in the states for violent crime and the large city close to me is WORSE!!

I carry virtually all the time cause of the risk present. I always have a rifle close at hand too-
Paranoid? I think not.

My friends in law enforcement and various professions feel we know why and what it would take to correct the problem but the solution is politically impossible.

I will say nothing further than to say our crime profile fits the expected FBI stats on breakdown of crime by ethnicity and proportionate frequency for large numbers of violent crimes.

My Sheriiff notes the criminal individuals who procure "assault weapons" usually don't own any other rifles but usually possess handguns as their primary armament.Larry feels their primary reason is to shoot "whomever they want" at the moment.

Again I have no problems with any moral individual possessing such firearms but such weapons in the hands of immoral individuals endangers ALL our rights.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: GoneShootin]
      #91867 - 18/12/07 03:02 AM

INTERESTING INTERVIEW:

Great Answer from Florida Sheriff!!!


As reported earlier this week, some dirtbag who got pulled over

in a routine traffic stop in Florida& ended up "executing" the

deputy who stopped him. The deputy was shot eight times,

including once behind his right ear at close range.


Another deputy was wounded and a police dog killed. A statewide

manhunt ensued. The low-life was found hiding in a

wooded area with his gun. SWAT team officers fired and hit the

guy 68 times.


Now here's the kicker:


Naturally, the media asked why they shot him 68 times. Polk County

Sheriff Grady Judd, told the Orlando Sentinel - "That's all the bullets we had." ;

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Assault weapons [Re: Marrakai]
      #91868 - 18/12/07 03:11 AM

Quote:


Not being allowed to own a firearm for the specific purpose of self-defence in Australia might be seen by an American to be a loss of personal freedom, whereas an Australian might suggest that needing a firearm for self defence in the home is symptomatic of a far greater loss of freedom.






As Hoppdoc pointed out this is not the case throughout the US.. I sleep most nights with my doors unlocked and auto outside unlocked as well..and I do agree, there are areas in the larger city's I would NOT travel without a gun.. the old philosophy of I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 seems to apply..

Having said that, you nor anyone else will never convince me the goverment should have the authority to say you can or can not have a firearm-or what type for that matter.-that is not a democracy..IMHO

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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EricD
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Assault weapons [Re: Ripp]
      #91877 - 18/12/07 05:04 AM

Quote:



Sheriff Grady Judd, told the Orlando Sentinel - "That's all the bullets we had." ;




Sounds like the kind of Sheriff that they need to make sure they keep.


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: EricD]
      #91931 - 18/12/07 02:43 PM

Who really needs assault weapons??

I say everyone!! Every armed man needs to be familiar with them for purposes of being ready for a local societal meltdown.Total BS?? Maybe your not concerned about anything like the LA riots of years ago---


My criteria- cheap gun,cheap ammo,accepatable accuracy in a rifle caliber to penetrate whatever the perp is wearing.A ruger 7.62 x 39 works just fine vs more expensive stuff and is not an AK type gun that screams perp.If a semi weren't allowed by a Nanny state a fast lever gun would be an alternative--


I practice regularly----And hope I will never have to use my "assault" rifle.That's how it should be.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (18/12/07 07:48 PM)


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Assault weapons [Re: EricD]
      #91969 - 18/12/07 11:13 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Sheriff Grady Judd, told the Orlando Sentinel - "That's all the bullets we had." ;




Sounds like the kind of Sheriff that they need to make sure they keep.





You are exactely correct--if we had more of that type of mentality we all would be much better off..someone takes those described actions against anyone as that criminal did--they need to die.. plain and simple.

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
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Re: Assault weapons [Re: Ripp]
      #91995 - 19/12/07 08:35 AM

My favorite Sheriff is Joe Arpaio from Maricopa County Arizona--

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio

He treats prisoners like prisoners--,no weights,no porn magazines, no a/c or creature comforts,TV only having the Disney and weather channels,just hard labor and chain gangs, etc

Bet his rate of repeated crime is lower than surrounding counties!!
Do you think he has a tough rep or what??

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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