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lonewulf
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Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: xausa]
      #287812 - 13/09/16 10:04 PM


I don't own any magnums. For starters I'm recoil sensitive and in any event, for the type of hunting I'm involved in (Reds/chamois/Tahr) a 7x57 or .308 does just fine.

I also find the current craze for long range 'sniping' at animals totally unethical and I'll have no part in it.


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: xausa]
      #287813 - 13/09/16 10:14 PM

Quote:



As far as long range shooting is concerned, I competed for years with rifles such as the .30-'06, .308, 7mm-08, .260 Remington, and yes, .223 at ranges up to and including 600 and even 1000 yards, but I would not consider taking a shot beyond 300 yards on game. Shooting at a stationary target at a known distance is one thing. Shooting at a live animal, capable of moving at any instant, including the interval between the bullet leaving the barrel and arriving on target, increases the chances of a shot which merely wounds in direct proportion to .




Yessir. I couldn't agree more.

To call me a competitor is a very long stretch. There was a fine gentleman at a local gun club that arranged the rental of a military range a few years ago and got 15 guys together to collectively pay for the rental. We got the range dedicated to us for five full day sessions over 5 Saturdays over the course of the summer. It was a wonderful experience that we repeated for four summers.

We had a varied selection of mostly hunting rifles and calibers were predominantly but not limited to .308 between the bunch of us, but the real interesting part for me was to watch how well people did. There were a few guys that were really proficient right out of the gate, but several really struggled to even get on paper, even at the shorter ranges as we worked up to going looooong over the course of each day. These were guys that had a true interest in firearms and in shooting far. When people are interested in something, they tend to do better than those that aren't so interested or motivated. There were a couple of F class type shooters in the crowd with gear to match, but mostly it was hunting rifles and some passionate gun guys.

The eye opener for me was just how hard most guys found it to consistently hit those distant targets. To think that there might be a tiny number of hunters wandering around in the woods that think they can actually make a fatal shot at serious distance makes one cringe. It takes a fair bit of practice, good gear, known distances, and controlled conditions to consistently hit far far away. Thankfully, most hunters are highly responsible and respectful nature loving conservationists that stay within reasonable operating limits. TV shows that glorify long range hunting, shooting Elk and the like at 1100, 1200 yards and other great distances do us all a disservice as responsible hunters in my very humble opinion. What ever happened to "get as close as you can, then get 10 paces closer"??

And, yes, I do love magnums....... Never met a gun I didn't like. To quote a wise old sage: "the worst most awful piece of ass I ever had, was GREAT!!!!"

Edited by Postman (13/09/16 10:32 PM)


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287817 - 13/09/16 11:38 PM

Quote:


My boundaries and my particular code of hunting ethics are designed by me and for me and I am comfortable with them. However, I would never expect anybody else to have to adhere to them. To each their own, and we each need to answer to ourselves at the end of the day, but I do have my own opinion about what is probably too far to ethically shoot at animals. I share it here not to lecture, but to provoke thought.




Think the above is key..your "own" ethics..many have skills above what others have in different areas of life..what might be near impossible for some is easy for others... if you question what you are doing its usually a good indicator you probably shouldn't be doing it..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287820 - 14/09/16 01:07 AM

Agreed. One must be guided by ones own abilities and/or shortcomings.

As an aside, wrt to those LD Saturday morning "sniping for animals" tv shows, I can't help but wonder how many shots were actually taken off camera in order to capture the "one shot kill" at over 1000 yards and the like that is actually shown to the viewing public? How in the hell do they effectively follow up on the elk with a leg haplessly blown off? How long does it take to cross a heavily wooded valley in order to get to the distant spot where the animal stood? What about the follow up anyway? Does anyone even bother to walk over to validate whether the shot was a hit or miss when the walk is both far and difficult and the animal showed absolutely no sign of a hit? It's TV for heaven's sake. The Internet doesn't have the market corned on deceptive misleading presentment..... Not levelling accusations at any particular crew, but the tinfoil hat skeptic in me can't help but wonder what really is going on when the camera isn't rolling or what gets left on the proverbial editing room floor.


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Ripp
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287822 - 14/09/16 02:49 AM

Quote:

Agreed. One must be guided by ones own abilities and/or shortcomings.

As an aside, wrt to those LD Saturday morning "sniping for animals" tv shows, I can't help but wonder how many shots were actually taken off camera in order to capture the "one shot kill" at over 1000 yards and the like that is actually shown to the viewing public? How in the hell do they effectively follow up on the elk with a leg haplessly blown off? How long does it take to cross a heavily wooded valley in order to get to the distant spot where the animal stood? What about the follow up anyway? Does anyone even bother to walk over to validate whether the shot was a hit or miss when the walk is both far and difficult and the animal showed absolutely no sign of a hit? It's TV for heaven's sake. The Internet doesn't have the market corned on deceptive misleading presentment..... Not levelling accusations at any particular crew, but the tinfoil hat skeptic in me can't help but wonder what really is going on when the camera isn't rolling or what gets left on the proverbial editing room floor.





I have wondered the same thing...and pretty sure sadly you are correct. Not even the most seasoned military sniper will make 100% hits..too many variables most of which is probably wind..and while it might be 10mph were you are..it might be 25mph where the bullet is headed..or in the middle of the canyon that bullet has to cross...farily certain we would be appalled if seen the total story of that hunt..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287828 - 14/09/16 08:08 AM

A good article, thanks for posting Ripp.

Lets not forget the original Magnums were meant for very close up work with dangerous game. With this in mind the answer to the question is Yes.

In my younger days, when I shot a hell of a lot more than I do now, using a 308 and the 35Whelen I would shoot to 500mts, targets only. However if a 400mt shot presented itself I was confident and willing to take it. Sadly, not any more as I do not practice to those distances. 300mts is now my self imposed limit. Do I need a magnum for this. If a magnum is in my hands at the time then yes I do need the magnum for the shot, even if it is a rabbit.


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gryphon
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #287830 - 14/09/16 10:33 AM

Talking MPH crosswinds as ripp mentioned I was watching a good stag (big stag) standing over a bedded hind with her calf lower down the hill face.
He was on a steep angle and I was viewing him across a saddle with a 20- 30-40 knot wind blowing through.
I didn't have a RF with me at the time and wasn't sure enough as to the actual distance for drop and drift.I knew he was well past 300 yards though.

He stood side on for fucking ages safe because I wasn't going to gut shoot him etc.

The next day I went back and ranged from where he stood back to my vantage log..410 yards it was!

30-40 knots....unknown speed but it was howling and the range would have meant a big drift.
No matter what magnum I had in my claw at the time it wasnt enough to persuade me to let fly.

I never saw him again either.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3518
Loc: Colorado
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: gryphon]
      #287834 - 14/09/16 01:12 PM

I do need a 577/500 Magnum...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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szihn
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Reged: 24/06/07
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Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Huvius]
      #287863 - 15/09/16 01:32 AM

In the last 45 years I have owned a lot of different magnums, but today I have only 2. I sold off all the rest.
I still have a 300 H&H and a 375H&H.

I have no need for any others and indeed, I don't even want any others.

Well.......rifle magnums that is.
I still have and love my 44 and 357 magnum handguns.


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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: xausa]
      #287878 - 15/09/16 12:17 PM

Is the .50BMG a magnum?

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #287887 - 15/09/16 07:53 PM

Quote:

Is the .50BMG a magnum?




No, it is small bore, 20mm is medium bore, 30mm is large bore and 40mm is Magnum.................well that's how they rate for Anti Aircraft use


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #287897 - 16/09/16 02:41 AM

50 BMG? Yup need one of those for sure!!!! The cool factor alone is worth the price of admission. Guy I knew a few years ago had a 20 mm bolt action eastern block "rifle"? It was legal but it was taller than a man and it was heavy!!!

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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288017 - 19/09/16 08:48 AM

Lonewulf I feel you when you say sniping at long range is unethical. I too like to look the little bas**rds in the eye when I pull the trigger at point blank range but I use only magnums.

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lonewulf
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Reged: 06/08/12
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #288022 - 19/09/16 11:27 AM



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: lonewulf]
      #288134 - 21/09/16 06:16 AM

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




Just make sure that your handy rock has CRF lest you fail to stave the poor creature's brains in on the first go round.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288182 - 22/09/16 01:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




Just make sure that your handy rock has CRF lest you fail to stave the poor creature's brains in on the first go round.






Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: lonewulf]
      #288183 - 22/09/16 01:41 AM

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




I am surprised and disappointed you've heard of this technique way over in Aussieland.
This stalk and kill method originated with moose hunting in B.C. Yes indeed - it was invented & developed by a sporty Prince George Citizen back in the 1950's when ammo was in short supply and gained popularity in this area then spread throughout the Province. I am surprised you heard of this lonewulf - & I'd like to get my hands on the RRRRAt-bastard who let out 'OUR' hands-on method of killing moose.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #288195 - 22/09/16 11:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




I am surprised and disappointed you've heard of this technique way over in Aussieland.
This stalk and kill method originated with moose hunting in B.C. Yes indeed - it was invented & developed by a sporty Prince George Citizen back in the 1950's when ammo was in short supply and gained popularity in this area then spread throughout the Province. I am surprised you heard of this lonewulf - & I'd like to get my hands on the RRRRAt-bastard who let out 'OUR' hands-on method of killing moose.




Daryl, that is the Kiwi method, here in Aussie land we are somewhat more sophisticated and sporting. We sneak in close and throw a bent stick. We then get the animals attention so they are looking at us and don't see the bent stick returning. Whomp on the back of the head takes them out cleanly. Just have to now the trajectory of your bent stick.


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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #288207 - 22/09/16 09:21 PM

My take, for what it's worth, no, a magnum is not NEEDED. However, WANTS always override needs. I have owned several different magnum cartridges over the years, took some game with some of them and enjoyed every one of them but, I don't own one at the moment. Also shot a great deal of long range, out to 1000 yds., with a 300 Win. Mag. and what fun and an education that was. I believe a great part depends on what you want to do....and how your head works, especially if it's twisted like mine. I believe it was close to 25 years ago I pretty much got completely away from modern cartridges for hunting. The old, largely unknown cartridges without much data available became a lot more interesting than the "newest, latest, greatest" offerings from manufacturers. And yes, I know the 375 H&H came out in 1912 and the 300 H&H in....the 1920's I think? Maybe the early 1930's? Both are pretty well known cartridges with a lot of data out there....and a lot of history. I prefer my hunting up close and personal, besides, where 99% of my hunting takes place 75 yards is about all the farther one can see game to shoot it. Because of that and my interest in the old stuff even the old BP cartridges are more than effective. More modern, smokeless powder cartridges from before WWI and "sedate to us" velocities utilizing cast bullets also do everything I need or want done.

However....magnum cartridges are a lot of fun and can be interesting so if a fella doesn't own one or hasn't owned one he should....so maybe they are needed....

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #288220 - 23/09/16 02:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




I am surprised and disappointed you've heard of this technique way over in Aussieland.
This stalk and kill method originated with moose hunting in B.C. Yes indeed - it was invented & developed by a sporty Prince George Citizen back in the 1950's when ammo was in short supply and gained popularity in this area then spread throughout the Province. I am surprised you heard of this lonewulf - & I'd like to get my hands on the RRRRAt-bastard who let out 'OUR' hands-on method of killing moose.




Daryl, that is the Kiwi method, here in Aussie land we are somewhat more sophisticated and sporting. We sneak in close and throw a bent stick. We then get the animals attention so they are looking at us and don't see the bent stick returning. Whomp on the back of the head takes them out cleanly. Just have to now the trajectory of your bent stick.






--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #288223 - 23/09/16 03:27 AM

So here's a thought: the entire term "magnum" is horrendously flawed. I'd put forth the notion that we have more and less powerful cartridges of all shapes and sizes. Pick the bore size and power level suitable for the job at hand coupled with bullets of a performance envelope appropriate for the given application. Have at 'er.......

It rankles me every time I hear utterly stupid expressions in the MSM such as "it was a high caliber weapon". WTF pray tell is a high caliber???????? Maybe I have too much idle thought time on my hands at this particular moment, but I can't help but wonder if the term magnum is yet another term tending toward the "devoid of meaning" end of the spectrum.

I believe there's an appropriate application for all sporting cartridges whether the may have more or less power respectively, and there's nothing wrong with that!!!!!

Edited by Postman (23/09/16 03:38 AM)


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lonewulf
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Reged: 06/08/12
Posts: 227
Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288235 - 23/09/16 08:30 AM


Postman, when you use my method it isn't so much the rock that has to be CRF as your hand. You have to train your hand to take on a sort of claw/craw-like shape which ensures good rock control throughout the 'suppression phase' of the operation. Takes years.

Daryl you can relax. I attempted to pass the technique on to a couple of passing Ockers with pretty predictable results. Mostly they just stood there looking confused. One made a sort of half-arsed attempt to give it a go but couldn't 'craw' his hand for love nor money. Eventually he became frustrated of course, (as they tend to do) and ran headlong into a tree. I lost sight of him after he staggered backwards over a bank. Sad case.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288264 - 23/09/16 11:15 PM

Quote:

So here's a thought: the entire term "magnum" is horrendously flawed. I'd put forth the notion that we have more and less powerful cartridges of all shapes and sizes. Pick the bore size and power level suitable for the job at hand coupled with bullets of a performance envelope appropriate for the given application. Have at 'er.......

It rankles me every time I hear utterly stupid expressions in the MSM such as "it was a high caliber weapon". WTF pray tell is a high caliber???????? Maybe I have too much idle thought time on my hands at this particular moment, but I can't help but wonder if the term magnum is yet another term tending toward the "devoid of meaning" end of the spectrum.

I believe there's an appropriate application for all sporting cartridges whether the may have more or less power respectively, and there's nothing wrong with that!!!!!




Agree with this..and agree..WTF is high caliber??? More media sensationalism ..Liberals trying to make something they don't agree with look more dangerous or serious than it really is..all about their agenda an narrative..

As to magnum vs non-magnum...think this is also a discussion that is what it is...no reason to disparage a particular caliber over another, IMHO...if you don't like it don't use it..simple as that..There is certainly a time and place for either...Doesn't really matter if I shoot a 338W Mag or a 270, I can get really close carrying either caliber mo matter what I am carrying..BUT, maybe I am sneaking around in Alaska or Africa..I'd much rather have a mag in my hands vs a 243 should I run into the larger more dangerous game animal..crazy thought I know, but that's just me...

Finally as to getting eye to eye with them...I usually just jump down on their backs from a tree I am perched in. At that point I can ride them around for a while..once they tire they are much easier to choke out and put to sleep..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #288273 - 24/09/16 03:12 AM

LOL - choke 'em out - used to be a line of mine when I was a kid in uniform, after they woke up and vomited - "now BEHAVE, or you will go to sleep again!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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