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Ripp
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Do you really need a magnum???
      #287628 - 10/09/16 08:19 AM

https://www.americanhunter.org/articles/...m_campaign=0916

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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287631 - 10/09/16 08:41 AM

Uh oh Ripp!!! The last time you posted something like this, I opened my yap and helped fuel a very lively debate!!!!

But I'm smarter now and I'm not biting!!!! Of course you NEED one!!!! But you also "NEED" a non magnum!!!! Hell, you "NEED" all manner of cool firearms...... Why, you might ask????? Well, because you do!!!!!!! Just because!!!!!

Best,

Postman


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DarylS
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287634 - 10/09/16 10:01 AM

Good article. As noted, much depends on the ranges one actually shoots game.

Just yesterday my Bro was asking me what the drop figures were for his 9.3x57 using 286gr. Dual Core Norma on moose or elk - out to 300yards. His rifle is sighted 2" high at 109 meters. Centre hold to 150yds., 1/2 way to spine for 200 to 225yards and top of the back for 250 to 300 yards his self imposed limit. That was all he needed to know as he uses a range finder and is able to interpret intermediate ranges.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rell
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #287657 - 11/09/16 03:58 AM

Need, hells yes.

If you don't have a 338-378 Weatherby how can you shoot whitetail a past 300m?

Seriously though it's nice to be able to reach out to 500m on a once in a life time hunt if you have practiced and are confident in the shot.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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fuhrmann
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287659 - 11/09/16 06:14 AM

An old Jeff Cooper quote comes to mind:
What is a magnum cartridge good for? It enables you to miss faster!


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: fuhrmann]
      #287668 - 11/09/16 06:53 AM

The best longer range shooting on a hunt I have done was with my .30-06 pushing 150 gr Noslers out at a quite sedate velocity, maybe 2900 fps.

I was shooting feral goats in the Flinders Ranges and the herd of feral goats were fleeing along a lefge path on a cliff. Using my daypack as a rest, BANG, one down off the ledge, BANG, two down, BANG three down, perhaps at about 400 metres (from memory), BANG, fourth down ... but he was not dead ... BANG BANG BANG BANG, could I hit him lying at the foot of the cliff??? The rest escaped before I managed to finish him off.

400 metres for me is a long long way away. Estimate only as before range finders were available to normal people. But the .30-06 was able to do it until ...

BTW if that had not been lousy feral goats being culled, but say a stag or even a big trophy feral billy, I probably would not risk such a long shot.

But I do think, a 'magnum' with a longer point blank aiming range does make it easier if a longer shot does present itself. Normal hunting 95% of the time, not actually needed.

As for really long ranges, say 500 metres or more ... Not part of my repetoire.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: NitroX]
      #287669 - 11/09/16 06:59 AM

BTW Phillip Massaro writes a more sensible article on the topic than many, and uses good logic.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: NitroX]
      #287686 - 11/09/16 09:20 AM

Does one need to shoot into a land far far away? Not if one can help it. However sometimes there is no other way. I applaud the reach out and touch 'em cartridges and the rifles that are made well enough to do them justice. I also have great admiration for the rifleman that can make the most of both. But, and it's a big but: can one get closer? Top notch Bush craft and hunting skill suggests one can get up close, save for those situations where some rare and funky billy goat is waaaaay out there across a canyon that must be spanned by a miracle shot. This is where flat shooting magnums play and are highly appropriate.

For most situations, I would gravitate to a compromise that will not turn a scrawny little antelope into bloodshot mush up close, but will "reasonably" reach out there to maybe 300 yards. I won't shoot further. Or rather, I have not shot further. But I have not hunted mountain ranges where I've had no other choice either.

On the flip side, magnums can be tamed by downloading, but non magnums can't be safely hot rodded if one ascribes to the notion that one shouldn't try to make a cartridge into something that it isn't.

Edited by Postman (11/09/16 09:29 AM)


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500Boswell
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287687 - 11/09/16 09:26 AM

Yes we need guns and we need magnums !

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Well_Well_Well
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #287688 - 11/09/16 09:35 AM

Of course you do, you can't call yourself a gun whore without at least a few!

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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #287690 - 11/09/16 09:56 AM

Quote:

Of course you do, you can't call yourself a gun whore without at least a few!




I love it when you talk dirty to me!!!!


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gryphon
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287705 - 11/09/16 02:57 PM

Magnums,dont they makes you taller too?

--------------------
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Ripp
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: gryphon]
      #287715 - 12/09/16 02:12 AM

Quote:

Magnums,dont they makes you taller too?



only if you are 5'6 or smaller..

Reading the posts is great to hear everyone's take. I agree with most of what is said..NO, I don't think you NEED one..but one doesn't really need a Porsche or Harley in the garage, but they sure can be fun..

IMHO, a flat shooting rifle like a .257 Weatherby for an example on antelope..one can sight that in to be 3" high at 100yds and still hold hair on hair out to 400..if you shoot enough and the situation finds it necessary it is really not that difficult to pull of a 500 yd shot..no dial turning or using multi cross hairs..

As to blowing up a bunch of meat, my experience is that this is more a product of the bullet you are using vs the caliber..I have shot little tiny antelope in Africa with my .416 using 400 gr bullets..little hole in and out..but was a very tough bullet..I use a Barnes XXX in the .257 Weatherby..pushing them close to 3700fps...no meat spoilage at all.

Agree in 95% of the hunting cases you don't need one..but also as described it you are on a hunt in the middle of nowhere and suddenly on the last day a game animal is trotting up the opposite side of a canyon at 360 yards, its nice to have a flatter shooting caliber that you have used and ARE intimately familiar with ..NO harvesting something isn't the end all, but it doesn't suck to be successful either..contrary to what Obama has been telling everyone for the past 7 1/2 years..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: gryphon]
      #287716 - 12/09/16 03:05 AM

Quote:

Magnums,don't they makes you taller too?




Absolutely - I used to be 5'8" & 165pounds - the minimum to join the RCMPolice Force back before they slacked off the standards so Women could join(ANOTHER BONE OF CONTENTION!). Since joining the force, buying and shooting many different magnums over the last 44 years, starting off with my first .44 magnum, I'm now 6'1" and 235 pounds.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gryphon
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #287725 - 12/09/16 10:16 AM

Thats Magnum brand BEER that did it D

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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: gryphon]
      #287728 - 12/09/16 10:40 AM

As much as I like my doubles in classic double cartridges, I also like the challenge of long distance target shooting. I won't do it on animals, but for me, paper and in particular reactive targets like steel gongs are a lot of fun when the distances are long..... For example, the TRG in .308 is a lovely long distance toy for the range and even more so in .338 Lapua when one really wants to go far.

For hunting, I do have a .257 Weatherby that I load with 115 grain TSX bullets. They're hard and don't self destruct at close ranges in a cartridge that reaches out easily to 400 yards with very flat hold on hair trajectory. I once was presented with a 30 yard broadside caribou shot with the .257 in hand. I was expecting to see them cross the distant ice between the eskers at a good 350 yards, but lo and behold, Mr Bou showed up right on top of me. The shot literally spray painted the evergreen bush behind it a lovely red colour and I had my Bou. The damage and tissue destruction was unbelievable but I did have the hind quarters and most of the back straps to salvage. It was a pity that I held on the shoulder instead of just behind them...... The bullet was a pass through and was not recovered.

I really like that .257. It does catch me by surprise every time I shoot it with the muzzle blast of the high intensity overbore cartridge. A .25-06 is a lovely cartridge and would undoubtedly be almost as effective but would not shoot as far nor as flat.

All this to say that I don't mind magnums but I'm not totally fixated on them as the be all and end all. Maybe if I was fixated on them, I'd have been kinder to my dearly departed .378 Weatherby and would be shooting it as a primary rifle. They have their place. So does a boat anchor heavy slow .45-70...... One doesn't use a sledge to drive tacks, nor does one use a tack hammer to drive railroad spikes...... There's a place for everything but some tools are more optimal for a given situation.

Edited by Postman (12/09/16 10:55 AM)


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Rockdoc
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287730 - 12/09/16 12:22 PM

Well owning double rifle in 500/450 3 1/4" magnum and 375 Flanged Magnum and magazine rifles in 375H&H belted magnum I would say yes.

The original magnum cartridges were large and bottle shaped but not necessarily the high pressure hotshots some modern magnums are. Except the old 375H&H I guess


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DarylS
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: gryphon]
      #287733 - 12/09/16 01:29 PM

Quote:

Thats Magnum brand BEER that did it D




That's what my wife said!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gryphon
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #287736 - 12/09/16 02:47 PM

I`ll be betting that wifey is right too D

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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rockdoc]
      #287739 - 12/09/16 08:34 PM

Quote:

Well owning double rifle in 500/450 3 1/4" magnum and 375 Flanged Magnum and magazine rifles in 375H&H belted magnum I would say yes.

The original magnum cartridges were large and bottle shaped but not necessarily the high pressure hotshots some modern magnums are. Except the old 375H&H I guess





Reading this is a bit of a reminder to me that the magnum label can mean a lot of different things to different people...... I love both the 375 H&H as well as the flanged version. Funny though, when I think about them, I don't think "magnum", I think medium bore. When I think magnum, I think .375 and .378 Weatherby, etc........ It is very easy to lose sight of the notion that there was a shorter less powerful .375 2 & 1/2" before the H&H et al.......

Edited by Postman (12/09/16 09:38 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287742 - 12/09/16 11:22 PM

Quote:

As much as I like my doubles in classic double cartridges, I also like the challenge of long distance target shooting. I won't do it on animals, but for me, paper and in particular reactive targets like steel gongs are a lot of fun when the distances are long..... For example, the TRG in .308 is a lovely long distance toy for the range and even more so in .338 Lapua when one really wants to go far.

For hunting, I do have a .257 Weatherby that I load with 115 grain TSX bullets. They're hard and don't self destruct at close ranges in a cartridge that reaches out easily to 400 yards with very flat hold on hair trajectory. I once was presented with a 30 yard broadside caribou shot with the .257 in hand. I was expecting to see them cross the distant ice between the eskers at a good 350 yards, but lo and behold, Mr Bou showed up right on top of me. The shot literally spray painted the evergreen bush behind it a lovely red colour and I had my Bou. The damage and tissue destruction was unbelievable but I did have the hind quarters and most of the back straps to salvage. It was a pity that I held on the shoulder instead of just behind them...... The bullet was a pass through and was not recovered.

I really like that .257. It does catch me by surprise every time I shoot it with the muzzle blast of the high intensity overbore cartridge. A .25-06 is a lovely cartridge and would undoubtedly be almost as effective but would not shoot as far nor as flat.

All this to say that I don't mind magnums but I'm not totally fixated on them as the be all and end all. Maybe if I was fixated on them, I'd have been kinder to my dearly departed .378 Weatherby and would be shooting it as a primary rifle. They have their place. So does a boat anchor heavy slow .45-70...... One doesn't use a sledge to drive tacks, nor does one use a tack hammer to drive railroad spikes...... There's a place for everything but some tools are more optimal for a given situation.




Agree with the .257 Weatherby comments--

I had one built on a Rem. titanium action..has it reworked and installed a Hart Barrel..shoots incredible well..and is just a tad over 7lbs with scope..first time at the range a buddy was along, as I was getting ready to shoot he bend over to pick something up off the ground on the next bench over..the blast blew his hat off his head..we still laugh about that ...

As to the Triple Shocks..several years ago I shot a mule deer buck..unbeknownst to me there was a doe behind him --hit her as the bullet passed through him..found the bullet in her head when it was all over..perfect pedals and about 95% of its original weight...think for a caliber that fast the Barnes Triple shocks are a perfect bullet..also think for deer and antelope there a few calibers that are as flat shooting and perform as well as the .257...its as you stated, a 25-06 on steroids..Even my 26 Nosler isn't as fast as this but do plan to the 26 this season a bit, curious on how it will perform on deer and elk if I get the chance..

Ripp

R

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287754 - 13/09/16 02:02 AM

Was out at the range yesterday again checking sights on my new Browning .300 Win Mag as well as my .375/06IMP.
Both rifles had similar recoil - maybe the .375 a bit more push, but when it landed 2,800fpsd 225gr. SP's, 2,650fps 270gr. TSX and 2,470fps 300gr,. Norma RN's onto essentially a 2 1/2" vertical group, my mind was made up on what I'm packing for moose and elk in October. Damn - I like that round and it's not a magnum.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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SharpsNitro
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #287783 - 13/09/16 11:50 AM

Magnums? Absolutely! For reaching out and hitting a target at distance faster is better. I would even make the case that th .243 is a magnum.

For me it's shooting LR and ELR at steel targets. More velocity means less drop (obviously) but less wind correction (most importantly). At the last class I took it was very educational when my instructor put me on the spotting scope to call shots for him. He was shooting older .308 military match loads (168gr SMK) and compared to my 6.5SAUM it was night and day. Wind calls were about 2X more for him but the killer was range, it was amazing watching the bullets lose stability around 900yds. It's one thing to read about the stability issues of that bullet at 1000yds but it's another thing to see it in action.

Anyway, I'm a committed ranger and dailer and only use holds to correct. Corrections are almost exclusively for wind as I've verified my ballistics out to Range so I guess I'm on the scientific end of things.


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #287793 - 13/09/16 02:10 PM

I've used a .308 and a 7mm-08 on the 800 metre range. They are both amazing at that distance, both for what they can and can't do. Both rifles equipped with 26" barrels were still supersonic at that range. With the rigs sighted in at 100 yards, as I recall it was 97 clicks up on the elevation turret in order to be at the correct elevation for 800 metres. That's near 25 MOA ABOVE a 100 metre sight in aiming point. At 800 metres, that is effectively shooting a rainbow, which arcs above the line of sight by a good 25 feet at the mid point!!!!!!!!!! Think about that: the bullet is actually travelling 25 FEET ABOVE the line of sight!!!!!!

Windage was another story all together. With the ever watchful eye on the wind flags gracing the shooting range at points every 100 metres, if one were to pick shots carefully when the air was relatively still, one could stay on target eerily effectively. A tiny gust of wind equaled a clean miss on the entire life size military "enemy soldier" targets in use on that range unless one doped the wind skillfully and with a good dose of luck.

The .338 Lapua using very high BC 300 grain bullets driven at very high velocity are much more effective at bucking the wind, and do not exhibit such a rainbow like trajectory, but don't kid yourself, it's still a healthy rainbow.

I don't shoot at animals that far. It extends far outside my personal code of ethics and it indeed make me feel somewhat nauseous to watch the super long range bullshit "hunting" shows on the weekend tv, designed by all appearances at least to to me to be about selling tacti-cool rifles, and twiddle knob ultra magnification scopes, and less about good ethical hunting.

Anyhow, I believe in magnums for their properties of flattening trajectory such that when hunting, I can hold on hair even at extended ranges, for me being 400 yards or less, and preferably much less. if my rifle won't shoot flat enough to hold on hair, then I feel I am not close enough to the intended target for the particular hunting rifle/cartridge I'm carrying. There are obviously other factors at play such as bullet weight, caliber, construction, impact velocity that also need to be factored when determining suitability for the intended prey, but one still needs to hit 'em well and in a vital area in order to kill humanely, and reducing trajectory as a key consideration is important for me. I love to hunt, but I do respect the game animals, and I want to feel comfortable that when I decide to shoot at something, that I can score a fatal hit with that first shot.

My boundaries and my particular code of hunting ethics are designed by me and for me and I am comfortable with them. However, I would never expect anybody else to have to adhere to them. To each their own, and we each need to answer to ourselves at the end of the day, but I do have my own opinion about what is probably too far to ethically shoot at animals. I share it here not to lecture, but to provoke thought.

Edited by Postman (13/09/16 02:25 PM)


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xausa
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287811 - 13/09/16 09:32 PM

I have quite a few Magnums in my gun room, but I have never hunted with one, except in Africa. Even there, a good percentage of my plains game was taken with my .30-'06 and 7X57.

I have never hunted elk or moose, but if I had, I would consider using one of my smaller caliber magnums, like the one I used on the larger antelopes, and the same goes for the larger bear species, which I have also never hunted.

As far as long range shooting is concerned, I competed for years with rifles such as the .30-'06, .308, 7mm-08, .260 Remington, and yes, .223 at ranges up to and including 600 and even 1000 yards, but I would not consider taking a shot beyond 300 yards on game. Shooting at a stationary target at a known distance is one thing. Shooting at a live animal, capable of moving at any instant, including the interval between the bullet leaving the barrel and arriving on target, increases the chances of a shot which merely wounds in direct proportion to the range.

Although not labeled "Magnum", I consider some of my cartridges to be "Magnum" in performance, such as my 7X75R SE vom Hofe, my 7X65R and 7X64, my 9.3X74, 9.3X62 and my 8X68S. I have used the former on deer at longer ranges and plan on using the latter on wild hogs, if I get the opportunity.


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lonewulf
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: xausa]
      #287812 - 13/09/16 10:04 PM


I don't own any magnums. For starters I'm recoil sensitive and in any event, for the type of hunting I'm involved in (Reds/chamois/Tahr) a 7x57 or .308 does just fine.

I also find the current craze for long range 'sniping' at animals totally unethical and I'll have no part in it.


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: xausa]
      #287813 - 13/09/16 10:14 PM

Quote:



As far as long range shooting is concerned, I competed for years with rifles such as the .30-'06, .308, 7mm-08, .260 Remington, and yes, .223 at ranges up to and including 600 and even 1000 yards, but I would not consider taking a shot beyond 300 yards on game. Shooting at a stationary target at a known distance is one thing. Shooting at a live animal, capable of moving at any instant, including the interval between the bullet leaving the barrel and arriving on target, increases the chances of a shot which merely wounds in direct proportion to .




Yessir. I couldn't agree more.

To call me a competitor is a very long stretch. There was a fine gentleman at a local gun club that arranged the rental of a military range a few years ago and got 15 guys together to collectively pay for the rental. We got the range dedicated to us for five full day sessions over 5 Saturdays over the course of the summer. It was a wonderful experience that we repeated for four summers.

We had a varied selection of mostly hunting rifles and calibers were predominantly but not limited to .308 between the bunch of us, but the real interesting part for me was to watch how well people did. There were a few guys that were really proficient right out of the gate, but several really struggled to even get on paper, even at the shorter ranges as we worked up to going looooong over the course of each day. These were guys that had a true interest in firearms and in shooting far. When people are interested in something, they tend to do better than those that aren't so interested or motivated. There were a couple of F class type shooters in the crowd with gear to match, but mostly it was hunting rifles and some passionate gun guys.

The eye opener for me was just how hard most guys found it to consistently hit those distant targets. To think that there might be a tiny number of hunters wandering around in the woods that think they can actually make a fatal shot at serious distance makes one cringe. It takes a fair bit of practice, good gear, known distances, and controlled conditions to consistently hit far far away. Thankfully, most hunters are highly responsible and respectful nature loving conservationists that stay within reasonable operating limits. TV shows that glorify long range hunting, shooting Elk and the like at 1100, 1200 yards and other great distances do us all a disservice as responsible hunters in my very humble opinion. What ever happened to "get as close as you can, then get 10 paces closer"??

And, yes, I do love magnums....... Never met a gun I didn't like. To quote a wise old sage: "the worst most awful piece of ass I ever had, was GREAT!!!!"

Edited by Postman (13/09/16 10:32 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287817 - 13/09/16 11:38 PM

Quote:


My boundaries and my particular code of hunting ethics are designed by me and for me and I am comfortable with them. However, I would never expect anybody else to have to adhere to them. To each their own, and we each need to answer to ourselves at the end of the day, but I do have my own opinion about what is probably too far to ethically shoot at animals. I share it here not to lecture, but to provoke thought.




Think the above is key..your "own" ethics..many have skills above what others have in different areas of life..what might be near impossible for some is easy for others... if you question what you are doing its usually a good indicator you probably shouldn't be doing it..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287820 - 14/09/16 01:07 AM

Agreed. One must be guided by ones own abilities and/or shortcomings.

As an aside, wrt to those LD Saturday morning "sniping for animals" tv shows, I can't help but wonder how many shots were actually taken off camera in order to capture the "one shot kill" at over 1000 yards and the like that is actually shown to the viewing public? How in the hell do they effectively follow up on the elk with a leg haplessly blown off? How long does it take to cross a heavily wooded valley in order to get to the distant spot where the animal stood? What about the follow up anyway? Does anyone even bother to walk over to validate whether the shot was a hit or miss when the walk is both far and difficult and the animal showed absolutely no sign of a hit? It's TV for heaven's sake. The Internet doesn't have the market corned on deceptive misleading presentment..... Not levelling accusations at any particular crew, but the tinfoil hat skeptic in me can't help but wonder what really is going on when the camera isn't rolling or what gets left on the proverbial editing room floor.


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Ripp
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #287822 - 14/09/16 02:49 AM

Quote:

Agreed. One must be guided by ones own abilities and/or shortcomings.

As an aside, wrt to those LD Saturday morning "sniping for animals" tv shows, I can't help but wonder how many shots were actually taken off camera in order to capture the "one shot kill" at over 1000 yards and the like that is actually shown to the viewing public? How in the hell do they effectively follow up on the elk with a leg haplessly blown off? How long does it take to cross a heavily wooded valley in order to get to the distant spot where the animal stood? What about the follow up anyway? Does anyone even bother to walk over to validate whether the shot was a hit or miss when the walk is both far and difficult and the animal showed absolutely no sign of a hit? It's TV for heaven's sake. The Internet doesn't have the market corned on deceptive misleading presentment..... Not levelling accusations at any particular crew, but the tinfoil hat skeptic in me can't help but wonder what really is going on when the camera isn't rolling or what gets left on the proverbial editing room floor.





I have wondered the same thing...and pretty sure sadly you are correct. Not even the most seasoned military sniper will make 100% hits..too many variables most of which is probably wind..and while it might be 10mph were you are..it might be 25mph where the bullet is headed..or in the middle of the canyon that bullet has to cross...farily certain we would be appalled if seen the total story of that hunt..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rule303
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #287828 - 14/09/16 08:08 AM

A good article, thanks for posting Ripp.

Lets not forget the original Magnums were meant for very close up work with dangerous game. With this in mind the answer to the question is Yes.

In my younger days, when I shot a hell of a lot more than I do now, using a 308 and the 35Whelen I would shoot to 500mts, targets only. However if a 400mt shot presented itself I was confident and willing to take it. Sadly, not any more as I do not practice to those distances. 300mts is now my self imposed limit. Do I need a magnum for this. If a magnum is in my hands at the time then yes I do need the magnum for the shot, even if it is a rabbit.


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gryphon
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #287830 - 14/09/16 10:33 AM

Talking MPH crosswinds as ripp mentioned I was watching a good stag (big stag) standing over a bedded hind with her calf lower down the hill face.
He was on a steep angle and I was viewing him across a saddle with a 20- 30-40 knot wind blowing through.
I didn't have a RF with me at the time and wasn't sure enough as to the actual distance for drop and drift.I knew he was well past 300 yards though.

He stood side on for fucking ages safe because I wasn't going to gut shoot him etc.

The next day I went back and ranged from where he stood back to my vantage log..410 yards it was!

30-40 knots....unknown speed but it was howling and the range would have meant a big drift.
No matter what magnum I had in my claw at the time it wasnt enough to persuade me to let fly.

I never saw him again either.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Huvius
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: gryphon]
      #287834 - 14/09/16 01:12 PM

I do need a 577/500 Magnum...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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szihn
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Huvius]
      #287863 - 15/09/16 01:32 AM

In the last 45 years I have owned a lot of different magnums, but today I have only 2. I sold off all the rest.
I still have a 300 H&H and a 375H&H.

I have no need for any others and indeed, I don't even want any others.

Well.......rifle magnums that is.
I still have and love my 44 and 357 magnum handguns.


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Wanabebwana
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: xausa]
      #287878 - 15/09/16 12:17 PM

Is the .50BMG a magnum?

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Rule303
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #287887 - 15/09/16 07:53 PM

Quote:

Is the .50BMG a magnum?




No, it is small bore, 20mm is medium bore, 30mm is large bore and 40mm is Magnum.................well that's how they rate for Anti Aircraft use


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #287897 - 16/09/16 02:41 AM

50 BMG? Yup need one of those for sure!!!! The cool factor alone is worth the price of admission. Guy I knew a few years ago had a 20 mm bolt action eastern block "rifle"? It was legal but it was taller than a man and it was heavy!!!

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Wanabebwana
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288017 - 19/09/16 08:48 AM

Lonewulf I feel you when you say sniping at long range is unethical. I too like to look the little bas**rds in the eye when I pull the trigger at point blank range but I use only magnums.

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lonewulf
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #288022 - 19/09/16 11:27 AM



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: lonewulf]
      #288134 - 21/09/16 06:16 AM

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




Just make sure that your handy rock has CRF lest you fail to stave the poor creature's brains in on the first go round.


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Ripp
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288182 - 22/09/16 01:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




Just make sure that your handy rock has CRF lest you fail to stave the poor creature's brains in on the first go round.






Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: lonewulf]
      #288183 - 22/09/16 01:41 AM

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




I am surprised and disappointed you've heard of this technique way over in Aussieland.
This stalk and kill method originated with moose hunting in B.C. Yes indeed - it was invented & developed by a sporty Prince George Citizen back in the 1950's when ammo was in short supply and gained popularity in this area then spread throughout the Province. I am surprised you heard of this lonewulf - & I'd like to get my hands on the RRRRAt-bastard who let out 'OUR' hands-on method of killing moose.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #288195 - 22/09/16 11:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




I am surprised and disappointed you've heard of this technique way over in Aussieland.
This stalk and kill method originated with moose hunting in B.C. Yes indeed - it was invented & developed by a sporty Prince George Citizen back in the 1950's when ammo was in short supply and gained popularity in this area then spread throughout the Province. I am surprised you heard of this lonewulf - & I'd like to get my hands on the RRRRAt-bastard who let out 'OUR' hands-on method of killing moose.




Daryl, that is the Kiwi method, here in Aussie land we are somewhat more sophisticated and sporting. We sneak in close and throw a bent stick. We then get the animals attention so they are looking at us and don't see the bent stick returning. Whomp on the back of the head takes them out cleanly. Just have to now the trajectory of your bent stick.


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sharps4590
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #288207 - 22/09/16 09:21 PM

My take, for what it's worth, no, a magnum is not NEEDED. However, WANTS always override needs. I have owned several different magnum cartridges over the years, took some game with some of them and enjoyed every one of them but, I don't own one at the moment. Also shot a great deal of long range, out to 1000 yds., with a 300 Win. Mag. and what fun and an education that was. I believe a great part depends on what you want to do....and how your head works, especially if it's twisted like mine. I believe it was close to 25 years ago I pretty much got completely away from modern cartridges for hunting. The old, largely unknown cartridges without much data available became a lot more interesting than the "newest, latest, greatest" offerings from manufacturers. And yes, I know the 375 H&H came out in 1912 and the 300 H&H in....the 1920's I think? Maybe the early 1930's? Both are pretty well known cartridges with a lot of data out there....and a lot of history. I prefer my hunting up close and personal, besides, where 99% of my hunting takes place 75 yards is about all the farther one can see game to shoot it. Because of that and my interest in the old stuff even the old BP cartridges are more than effective. More modern, smokeless powder cartridges from before WWI and "sedate to us" velocities utilizing cast bullets also do everything I need or want done.

However....magnum cartridges are a lot of fun and can be interesting so if a fella doesn't own one or hasn't owned one he should....so maybe they are needed....

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6


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DarylS
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Rule303]
      #288220 - 23/09/16 02:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:



Yup, I feel you as well bro. What I like to do is sneak in, 'injun-style' and, just as I get underneath the snout of the unsuspecting beast, I leap up and smack it hard with the butt of my rifle. I then clonk the disoriented creature on the swede with a handy rock or stout bit of windfall continuing the assault until the animal goes all limp and floppy.

This approach may sound a little unusual to a Canadian but it has some real advantages. 1) It really saves on the ammo, I can't stress this enough and 2) it causes little or no damage to the skin and 3).....I get to watch the life drain from the eyes of the hapless prey animal.

Yeah...........




I am surprised and disappointed you've heard of this technique way over in Aussieland.
This stalk and kill method originated with moose hunting in B.C. Yes indeed - it was invented & developed by a sporty Prince George Citizen back in the 1950's when ammo was in short supply and gained popularity in this area then spread throughout the Province. I am surprised you heard of this lonewulf - & I'd like to get my hands on the RRRRAt-bastard who let out 'OUR' hands-on method of killing moose.




Daryl, that is the Kiwi method, here in Aussie land we are somewhat more sophisticated and sporting. We sneak in close and throw a bent stick. We then get the animals attention so they are looking at us and don't see the bent stick returning. Whomp on the back of the head takes them out cleanly. Just have to now the trajectory of your bent stick.






--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Postman
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: DarylS]
      #288223 - 23/09/16 03:27 AM

So here's a thought: the entire term "magnum" is horrendously flawed. I'd put forth the notion that we have more and less powerful cartridges of all shapes and sizes. Pick the bore size and power level suitable for the job at hand coupled with bullets of a performance envelope appropriate for the given application. Have at 'er.......

It rankles me every time I hear utterly stupid expressions in the MSM such as "it was a high caliber weapon". WTF pray tell is a high caliber???????? Maybe I have too much idle thought time on my hands at this particular moment, but I can't help but wonder if the term magnum is yet another term tending toward the "devoid of meaning" end of the spectrum.

I believe there's an appropriate application for all sporting cartridges whether the may have more or less power respectively, and there's nothing wrong with that!!!!!

Edited by Postman (23/09/16 03:38 AM)


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lonewulf
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288235 - 23/09/16 08:30 AM


Postman, when you use my method it isn't so much the rock that has to be CRF as your hand. You have to train your hand to take on a sort of claw/craw-like shape which ensures good rock control throughout the 'suppression phase' of the operation. Takes years.

Daryl you can relax. I attempted to pass the technique on to a couple of passing Ockers with pretty predictable results. Mostly they just stood there looking confused. One made a sort of half-arsed attempt to give it a go but couldn't 'craw' his hand for love nor money. Eventually he became frustrated of course, (as they tend to do) and ran headlong into a tree. I lost sight of him after he staggered backwards over a bank. Sad case.


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Ripp
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Postman]
      #288264 - 23/09/16 11:15 PM

Quote:

So here's a thought: the entire term "magnum" is horrendously flawed. I'd put forth the notion that we have more and less powerful cartridges of all shapes and sizes. Pick the bore size and power level suitable for the job at hand coupled with bullets of a performance envelope appropriate for the given application. Have at 'er.......

It rankles me every time I hear utterly stupid expressions in the MSM such as "it was a high caliber weapon". WTF pray tell is a high caliber???????? Maybe I have too much idle thought time on my hands at this particular moment, but I can't help but wonder if the term magnum is yet another term tending toward the "devoid of meaning" end of the spectrum.

I believe there's an appropriate application for all sporting cartridges whether the may have more or less power respectively, and there's nothing wrong with that!!!!!




Agree with this..and agree..WTF is high caliber??? More media sensationalism ..Liberals trying to make something they don't agree with look more dangerous or serious than it really is..all about their agenda an narrative..

As to magnum vs non-magnum...think this is also a discussion that is what it is...no reason to disparage a particular caliber over another, IMHO...if you don't like it don't use it..simple as that..There is certainly a time and place for either...Doesn't really matter if I shoot a 338W Mag or a 270, I can get really close carrying either caliber mo matter what I am carrying..BUT, maybe I am sneaking around in Alaska or Africa..I'd much rather have a mag in my hands vs a 243 should I run into the larger more dangerous game animal..crazy thought I know, but that's just me...

Finally as to getting eye to eye with them...I usually just jump down on their backs from a tree I am perched in. At that point I can ride them around for a while..once they tire they are much easier to choke out and put to sleep..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
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Re: Do you really need a magnum??? [Re: Ripp]
      #288273 - 24/09/16 03:12 AM

LOL - choke 'em out - used to be a line of mine when I was a kid in uniform, after they woke up and vomited - "now BEHAVE, or you will go to sleep again!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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