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Rell
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Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do?
      #280461 - 07/04/16 08:05 AM

Gentlemen,

I have a Weatherby Mark 5 Ultralightweight SMOA in 270 Winchester. It shoots like el crapo. I have had a few Weatherby rifles and some where rock stars and others lounge lizards. This one is a lizard.

Weatherby says it meets it's 1 inch garuanty but only with 140gr Sierra match kings .... Everything else is 2.25 MOA. Not a great hunting bullet to say the least.

My question is ....what do I do with it?

I like the action, stock and general form but do I rebarrel in 270 Win, rebarrel in something else or just sell it down the road as scrap for someone else's project?

I already have a couple of 06 derivatives.
-35 Whelen Ruger #1
-270 Win GMA takedown
-400 Whelen same GMA takedown
-338-06 Weatherby ULW sort on loan to my dad


Any genius would be appreciated.

THX

Rell

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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LesLeeSpeed
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Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Rell]
      #280462 - 07/04/16 10:43 AM

Hi,
Why not rebarrel it in 25-06 or 280AI, or 7x64 as you already have a 270 in another rifle.
that way you have the action that you like, and you haven't sold a pig in a poke to someone else, although, as a hunting rifle for deer or hogs, 2" is more than good enough out to about 250 yds.
Just my thoughts
LesLeeSpeed


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4896
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
      #280465 - 07/04/16 11:42 AM

Or you can play their game and place signs about how badly Weatherby's shoot outside gun stores in your area, take photos and send them to Weatherby. Also post on their social network pages including how poorly they are at looking after customers. Certainly their barrel manufacturer wont like this.

Or sell it and move on.


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DarylS
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Rule303]
      #280471 - 07/04/16 02:06 PM

WTBY Mark 5's are q usually quite valuable. I would think a re-barrel in anything but a normal calibre might not help with the value, but to re-barrel it in a normal Mark 5 calibre could be a good idea.
I don't see a .257 WTBY in the list.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #280481 - 07/04/16 05:02 PM

+1 on the .257 idea. It's similar in role to hte .270 and won't be a beast if you build it into an ultra light again

--------------------
.


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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Ash]
      #280486 - 07/04/16 08:00 PM

OP said it is a 270 WIN, not a 270 WEATHERBY, 257 Weatherby might be more work than would be worthwhile...

DC


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Postman
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Loc: Canada
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #280489 - 07/04/16 09:02 PM

In my humble experience, the Weatherby ultralight weights really suck!!!! I've had many Weatherbys over the years but generally find accuracy less than I would like to see in a premium off the shelf rifle.

The most aggregiuos case was a Weatherby varmintmaster in 7mm-08 with the factory Krieger Criterion barrel.
What I did to turn it in to an absolutely incredible tack driver was to free float the barrel. I carefully and meticulously used my Dremel tool to remove the two raised lumps inside the tip of the forend that Weatherby uses to add forend pressure to the barrel. Next, I rebedded the action by using epoxy at the action to stock contact point to raise the height of the front of the action to add a slight tilt to the barrel to ensure clearance from the stock forend. It is somewhat sacrilegious to rebed a rifle already equipped with an aluminum bedding block, but it is every bit as sacrilegious forvWeatherby to ruin an otherwise wonderful rifle by building rifles with forend pressure on the barrel and screwing up what could otherwise be a great AND accurate rifle. After my surgical procedure was complete, this rifle was a fantastic shooter and I kept it until I wore out the barrel after several thousand rounds shooting 1000 yard F class matches.

Funny enough, about two years after I did this, Weatherby announced their free floated Accumark lineup. Lo and behold, they free float those barrels, contrary to their traditional practice of using forend pressure.

Now, after that long winded rendition of my Weatherby tinkering, I shall get to the point of this post: I have had two Ultralights, both in .257 Weatherby, and tried the free float magic on both with disasterous results. Both rifles went from a ~1+ MOA rifle to one barely capable of throwing loose shotgun patterns. So, fortunately, before using epoxy, I would use a shim under the front action lug, just to be sure of the results I'd achieve, so it was relatively simple to turn them both back into a forend pressure rifle. Interestingly enough, what I've also discovered, was that both rifles were very respectable shooters when shooting from a cold barrel. One shot on the target, then wait a half hour, then shoot again one shot, and the rifles were sub MOA. Heaven help me if for the second shot there was any barrel heat, as the warmer the barrel got from the time the first shot was taken, groups opened up. I suspect that whippy noodle thin barrel is the cause of my consternation.

I now have pared down my Weatherby stash to 3: A .340 Accumark, a .458 Lott DG, and a .257 Ultramark. The Accumark is very accurate, easily sub MOA, with the DG and Ultramark around the 1" level of accuracy. I didn't try the free float on either the DG or the Ultramark. The accuracy level is sufficient for hunting, so I've left 'em both unmolested.

Edited by Postman (07/04/16 09:08 PM)


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Ripp
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Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Postman]
      #280490 - 07/04/16 09:27 PM

Poatman

I tried 5 new out of the box Weatherby rifles in .257 caliber years ago,,NONE would shoot to the level I was looking for..I finally built one myself using a Remington titanium action and Hart barrel..liked it so much I built a second one for backup..both tack drivers..

While I agree with you in that if you wait a long time the group gets better,I think it must be even more than the thin barrel. The reason I say this is I have other "customs" that I can shoot 3 fairly fast and still get a very nice group..have never had a Weaterby do that..in none of my lightweight attempts..I also tried 2 in .280 Remington caliber..they both sucked as well..while I know others have had great luck with them it has not been the case with me

BTW--I was able to try out the new rifles as I have a very good friend who is a dealer for them..

If it were me I would re-barrel or dump it...agree with Daryl..257 Weaterby is an incredible caliber..and anything you can kill with a .270 can be killed with a .257..including cape buffalo per Roy himself..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Postman
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Posts: 846
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Ripp]
      #280493 - 07/04/16 09:49 PM

Quote:

Poatman

I tried 5 new out of the box Weatherby rifles in .257 caliber years ago,,NONE would shoot to the level I was looking for..I finally built one myself using a Remington titanium action and Hart barrel..liked it so much I built a second one for backup..both tack drivers..

While I agree with you in that if you wait a long time the group gets better,I think it must be even more than the thin barrel. The reason I say this is I have other "customs" that I can shoot 3 fairly fast and still get a very nice group..have never had a Weaterby do that..in none of my lightweight attempts..I also tried 2 in .280 Remington caliber..they both sucked as well..while I know others have had great luck with them it has not been the case with me

BTW--I was able to try out the new rifles as I have a very good friend who is a dealer for them..

If it were me I would re-barrel or dump it...agree with Daryl..257 Weaterby is an incredible caliber..and anything you can kill with a .270 can be killed with a .257..including cape buffalo per Roy himself..

Ripp




Yes! Therein lies my absolute consternation with those infernal Weatherby rifles!!! The stock shape fits me well, but the sloppy accuracy is is unforgivable in such an expensive rifle. The skinny creepy triggers are an utter abomination as well. I would lean toward dumping it. The Sako Finnlights also suffer from less than stellar accuracy, but are a damn sight better than the Weatherbys. Seems the only way to get a super light rifle that shoots really well is to go custom, or possibly a Blaser K95 if one could see their way to an extremely expensive single shot.


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DarylS
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Ripp]
      #280521 - 08/04/16 04:17 AM

Quote:

Poatman

I tried 5 new out of the box Weatherby rifles in .257 caliber years ago,,NONE would shoot to the level I was looking for..I finally built one myself using a Remington titanium action and Hart barrel..liked it so much I built a second one for backup..both tack drivers..

While I agree with you in that if you wait a long time the group gets better,I think it must be even more than the thin barrel. The reason I say this is I have other "customs" that I can shoot 3 fairly fast and still get a very nice group..have never had a Weaterby do that..in none of my lightweight attempts..I also tried 2 in .280 Remington caliber..they both sucked as well..while I know others have had great luck with them it has not been the case with me

BTW--I was able to try out the new rifles as I have a very good friend who is a dealer for them..

If it were me I would re-barrel or dump it...agree with Daryl..257 Weaterby is an incredible caliber..and anything you can kill with a .270 can be killed with a .257..including cape buffalo per Roy himself..

Ripp




That's right - Cape Buffalo!!!!! - BUT - like Weatherby himself, you have to shoot it in the hip so the HYDROSTATIC SHOCK can do it's work, killing the buffalo.

However, when you have the picture taken with the PH & his rifle leaning up against the leg, please cover up the 2 .470 Nitro holes in the beast's shoulder - Roy should have, but didn't think of it, I guess. Yeah - I saw that addvert with the .257's gouge in the hide of the buff's left hip with Roy pointing at it, and the 2 holes the PH put in the shoulder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #280522 - 08/04/16 04:29 AM

What kind of showboating door knob would shoot a Cape buffalo with a BB gun? Yup, the master showman, Roy W. himself!!!! I love the .257 bee, but I reserve it for skinny runt whitetails and caribou where it is much better suited. My one and only cape buff was perforated with 7, count 'em 7!!! .570 grain .500NE flat point solids before he quit. I'm not surprised to hear about the .470 perforations in the esteemed Mr Weatherby's famous .257 buff..... That makes sense.

BTW: no disrespect intended for Roy. He was a master salesman and a gifted businessman. I just don't buy into the high velocity hydrostatic shock theories he loved to espouse. Like in hot rod muscle cars, the only thing that beats cubic inches, is more cubic inches!!


Edited by Postman (08/04/16 04:34 AM)


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Rell
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Reged: 03/12/04
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Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Postman]
      #280543 - 08/04/16 08:58 AM

It is the little Mark 5 in 270 Winchester, I don't think it can be opened up for a 257 Weatherby.

I'm pretty upset, it's the new SUB MOA supposedly from the Custom shop. Very disapoonting.

Maybe a 240 Weatherby?

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1274
Loc: Queensland
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Rell]
      #280554 - 08/04/16 12:25 PM

Contact Weatherby again and tell them you are still not happy with it, and Ask them what can they do for you ??? worth a try ,if they are any good, they might at least work with you ,to rebarrel it or something ? Second ,rebarrel it with a heavier high quality barrel 270 .You could rebarrel it to a 257 ,but then you have to get a gunsmith to open the bolt face etc etc ,more $$$$ and providing he does it properly .or sell it, or trade it on something better .

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Postman
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Posts: 846
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #280559 - 08/04/16 01:29 PM

I've looked long and hard at the Weatherby rifle in a standard cartridge but never took the plunge. I did have one once in .240 Weatherby though. I absolutely loved that little gem of a cartridge, and I was enamoured with the action as well. The rifle shot ok from what I can recall. I'd think that financially you might be best off sending this one down the road, but if you like the concept, maybe go for a custom barrel, 'cause I'm having a really hard time believing you'll ever find accuracy happiness in an Ultralight with a stock Weatherby noodle barrel. To tell the truth I'd never considered rebarreling any of my Weatherby rifles, given the limited availability of both quality barrels and talented smiths (long wait times and cost) in Canada, but maybe a good Lilja, Kreiger, or Hart barrel in .240 Weatherby might be a really interesting proposition! I believe that the ultralight concept is a good one, but it must be able to shoot accurately when all is said and done. Going for a non fluted standard profile barrel will add weight though, so that would need to be considered. Also, free floating is your friend. In the ultralights, there isn't too much bulk or stiffness in the forend to permit a great deal of Dremel work...... Something to also weigh in to the discussion.

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Homer
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Posts: 3081
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #280614 - 09/04/16 09:32 AM

Quote:

Contact Weatherby again and tell them you are still not happy with it, and Ask them what can they do for you ??? worth a try ,if they are any good, they might at least work with you ,to rebarrel it or something ? Second ,rebarrel it with a heavier high quality barrel 270 .You could rebarrel it to a 257 ,but then you have to get a gunsmith to open the bolt face etc etc ,more $$$$ and providing he does it properly .or sell it, or trade it on something better .




G'Day Fella's,

+1

Then buy a new Mk V or Rem 700 SS CDL in .257 Weatherby Mag as well!

Hope that helps

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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DarylS
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Homer]
      #280618 - 09/04/16 10:43 AM

Oh yeah - forgot about the bolt and extractor - silly me - better yet, then, re-barrel it to .338/06 standard or IMP & end up with a MAJOR rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Postman]
      #280648 - 09/04/16 10:48 PM

Quote:

Yes! Therein lies my absolute consternation with those infernal Weatherby rifles!!! The stock shape fits me well, but the sloppy accuracy is is unforgivable in such an expensive rifle. The skinny creepy triggers are an utter abomination as well. I would lean toward dumping it. The Sako Finnlights also suffer from less than stellar accuracy, but are a damn sight better than the Weatherbys. Seems the only way to get a super light rifle that shoots really well is to go custom, or possibly a Blaser K95 if one could see their way to an extremely expensive single shot.




No idea about Weatherbys. My one play with an ultralight factory rifle was with a Winchester M70 Featherweight. They were being sold at a discount for later realised obvious reasons, to dump them and get rid of them before new improved stock came on the market.

Mine was a .30-06. Shot 6 inch groups with 3 shots. Free floated it, glass bedded it. New mounts. New scope. All sorts of loads tried. Never really improved. Piece of shit put on the market and sold at a huge discount to what I paid for it.

I think good factory ultralight rifles at an affordable price are mostly a fantasy or a lucky dip. More a custom proposition where lots of careful detail can be applied. There is a reason heavy barrels are used for target rifles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: NitroX]
      #280662 - 10/04/16 02:29 AM

Local chap bought one of the Remington Stainless 700's with a laminate stock and pencil weight barrel. It wouldn't shoot his old favourite load that worked so well in his 1600 Husky - best was 2 1/2" at 100 meters.

I pulled the barrelled action, relieved the 60 or 70 pounds of forend tip pressure that was bending the barrel, then had to re-bed to get the action aligned and square in the barrel channel. I put in 1/2" of bedding under the barrel shank, the rest floated. I think I only used JB Weld Epoxy for that job. East to use and synthetic axle grease for release agent.

With Federal 165gr. Fusion, it shot 1/2 to .6", and with Federal 165TSX factory ammo, it ran 3/8" to .45".
It still wouldn't shoot the 180's any better than before. LOL.

Shad shot, elk, moose, whitetail buck and a stone ram that fall, all with the 165gr. Barnes factory Federal load and all with one shot each. All but the elk were close, less than 150yards. The elk was 415yards, iirc.

So, I guess the point of all of this is, some light weight rifles will shoot.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #280680 - 10/04/16 08:23 AM

I had one of the Winchesters and had the same problem. Couldn't keep three shots of anything in an 8" paper plate at 50yds. I dumped it and have never bought another Winchester. By the way, when I called the manufacturer they said that I was knit picking it.

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lonewulf
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Rell]
      #280684 - 10/04/16 10:12 AM

Quote:

Gentlemen,

I have a Weatherby Mark 5 Ultralightweight SMOA in 270 Winchester. It shoots like el crapo. I have had a few Weatherby rifles and some where rock stars and others lounge lizards. This one is a lizard.

Weatherby says it meets it's 1 inch garuanty but only with 140gr Sierra match kings .... Everything else is 2.25 MOA. Not a great hunting bullet to say the least.

My question is ....what do I do with it?

I like the action, stock and general form but do I rebarrel in 270 Win, rebarrel in something else or just sell it down the road as scrap for someone else's project?

I already have a couple of 06 derivatives.
-35 Whelen Ruger #1
-270 Win GMA takedown
-400 Whelen same GMA takedown
-338-06 Weatherby ULW sort on loan to my dad


Any genius would be appreciated.

THX

Rell




I don't have any really modern rifles so maybe I'm not well placed to offer an informed opinion but in my experience, true sub-MOA rifles are far less common than some would have us believe. In fact, (and maybe this says something about my shooting) I don't think I've ever owned a rifle that could be relied on to shoot under an inch "all day long" (as they say) or for that matter, deliver consistent sub-MOA groups on any given day of the year.

You have a rifle that shoots 140 grainers (of one sort or another) under an inch. You are nevertheless of the opinion that you've been short changed because it won't deliver the same level of accuracy across the full spectrum of .270 bullets. Again, I don't think I've ever encountered a rifle that will shoot anything I care to run through the mag into sub-MOA clusters. I mean, I hear about these rifles on the internet but I have never owned one. Again, maybe that says something about me. And I have to say, at this point we haven't even got to the problems I experience when shooting from a bench trying to coordinate my breathing and heart beat to the extent necessary to produce those tiny little groups as a matter of course at 100+ meters distant.

You have a wispy little high-power rifle that delivers a mid-range bullet weight into groups of less than one MOA. With a bit of perseverance and experimentation (there are lots of different bullets and powders out there) you may find another combo that also shoots under an inch - if you're lucky. If it were me, I think I'd be inclined to stick with the rifle for a while longer before ditching the thing and venturing into the unknown.


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DarylS
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: lonewulf]
      #280689 - 10/04/16 12:43 PM

Or, you could buy a CZ .22 Hornet and do this at 100 meters - all day. Those 40gr. HP's, by Sierra and Barnes have never grouped over 3/8" using 14.0gr. to 14.4gr. Lil'Gun and pistol primers.



My new one is not as accurate, but I was also using what are normally less accurate bullets, 45gr. Semi round nose and 40gr. Sp. I got the 3 shot and 4 shot groups mixed. LOL

These groups were with the Lux, Euro model, 23.4" light weight barrel and 6.5-20X44 Simmons .44 mag scope.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #280690 - 10/04/16 02:28 PM

With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group. Daryl I think that Somewhere around I have a lyman tong tool and dies for a hornet.

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lonewulf
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280691 - 10/04/16 03:08 PM

Quote:

With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group. Daryl I think that Somewhere around I have a lyman tong tool and dies for a hornet.




You mean across the full spectrum of available projectile weights for the caliber??? Wow ... that's impressive. Didn't know that.

Hard to understand why people would even bother to keep photographic records anymore if it's that easy. I guess old habits die hard.


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Postman
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280692 - 10/04/16 03:19 PM

Quote:

With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group. Daryl I think that Somewhere around I have a lyman tong tool and dies for a hornet.




I am a firm believer in this as well. Modern metallurgy, proper machining and careful assembly of many of today's rifles produce really astounding results. Careful hand loads dialled in to the specific rifle brings things in even tighter.

I have had tremendously impressive results with all Sako rifles (models 75 and 85) if one excludes the Finnlights which for me have tended to hover around or a little larger than 1 to 1.5 MOA. The TRG and the Sako stainless varmint were small ragged hole rifles at 100 yards. My cousin had a Tikka .308 and when we put good hand loads through it, it was a solid 1/2 MOA.

I have seen an AR shoot teeny tiny ragged holes albeit with a custom Lilja heavy barrel. Every Blaser I've ever touched shot incredibly tight groups as well.

Remington 700s for me have always tended to shoot very well and will often go 1 MOA or better. Too bad they can't figure out how to drill the scope base holes in a straight line.

With the newer hardware, one will have expectations set very very high compared to the old days. On the flip side, everything is possible on the Internet and there is always far greater fantasy than reality, where expanding the truth is the norm, however I do know that if I have a modern bolt gun that doesn't live up to Internet fantasy, I am uninterested in owning it. I do not expect MOA out of most self loaders, lever guns, doubles, and pumps, but if a modern bolt gun can't measure up, to me it is only as useful as a tent peg and firewood.


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lonewulf
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Postman]
      #280694 - 10/04/16 03:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group. Daryl I think that Somewhere around I have a lyman tong tool and dies for a hornet.




I am a firm believer in this as well. Modern metallurgy, proper machining and careful assembly of many of today's rifles produce really astounding results. Careful hand loads dialled in to the specific rifle brings things in even tighter.

I have had tremendously impressive results with all Sako rifles (models 75 and 85) if one excludes the Finnlights which for me have tended to hover around or a little larger than 1 to 1.5 MOA. The TRG and the Sako stainless varmint were small ragged hole rifles at 100 yards. My cousin had a Tikka .308 and when we put good hand loads through it, it was a solid 1/2 MOA.

I have seen an AR shoot teeny tiny ragged holes albeit with a custom Lilja heavy barrel. Every Blaser I've ever touched shot incredibly tight groups as well.

Remington 700s for me have always tended to shoot very well and will often go 1 MOA or better. Too bad they can't figure out how to drill the scope base holes in a straight line.

With the newer hardware, one will have expectations set very very high compared to the old days. On the flip side, everything is possible on the Internet and there is always far greater fantasy than reality, where expanding the truth is the norm, however I do know that if I have a modern bolt gun that doesn't live up to Internet fantasy, I am uninterested in owning it. I do not expect MOA out of most self loaders, lever guns, doubles, and pumps, but if a modern bolt gun can't measure up, to me it is only as useful as a tent peg and firewood.




Okay, just so I understand; you're saying I can go out today and expect to buy an ultra-light hunting rifle in something other than a 17 or 22 caliber (or other than in one of the specialist low intensity BR rigs) - so lets say a bog-standard 7mm-o8, .270, .280, 7 mm Rem Mag, 30-06 .300 Win Mag and I can fully expect that rifle (despite the fixed twist rate and paper thin barrel walls and less than perfect chamber) to consistently shoot sub-MOA groups across the full spectrum of the available projectile weights for that caliber? And you're suggesting that's the norm - with the good manufacturers?

Cos if that's true I think the OP should absolutely take his rifle back to the dealer and insist that it's replaced pronto. Absolutely.!

Edited by lonewulf (10/04/16 03:59 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280699 - 10/04/16 06:11 PM

Quote:

With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group.




My thoughts as well.

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Brithunter
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: NitroX]
      #280706 - 10/04/16 07:35 PM

The problem lies with the manufacturers refusing to believe they turn out crap. Remington for example thier acceptance for hunting rifles is 2":-

Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (Danny) 06/05/2012 08:05 AM
Industry standard is 2 inches or less for hunting rifles. Proper ammunition and optics should make this very easy.

Note how they claim this is the industry standard! Sako however say 1 MOA is their aceptance level:-

Dear Mr Peckham,

Thank you for your email and for your interest towards SAKO products. Each and every rifle that leaves Sako factory is test shot for accuracy and the minimum requirement is 1MOA, using our own, high quality ammunition. At the moment we do not supply the rifles with test targets.

I wish you the best of luck in your search for a new rifle and hope you will end up choosing a Sako or a Tikka.

Best regards,

Johanna Häkkinen
Customer Service Manager
Export

Sako Ltd.
P.O.Box 149 FI-11101 Riihimäki - Finland
Tel. +358 10 8305359 Mob. +358 400 592008

Parker-Hale claimed that their rifles would produce groups of 1 1/2" or less using fresh Norma factory ammunition.

Yet they tell us how superior modern manufacturing processes are yet what they really mean is that it's superior for profits and nothing else. If anything quality has dropped not improved.

Weatherby well I have never been impressed with them and worked out long ago that Roy was a liar plain and simple a con man and a good one at that. This reminds me of Stans super dooper 30-378 MkV that you cold not hit a bar door with. Groups were a foot plus so it went back and Weatherby tweaked it and sent it back and it was no better so back it went again this went on for over a year and eventually after Weatherby had replaced so much that only the bolt and trigger were the originals Stans brother Steve took it to his gunsmith who stripped it and rebuilt it with some more new bits and blueprinted it and finally it was able to shoot properly. That was back in 2005 or thereabouts.

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Edited by Brithunter (10/04/16 07:36 PM)


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Postman
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: lonewulf]
      #280713 - 10/04/16 10:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group. Daryl I think that Somewhere around I have a lyman tong tool and dies for a hornet.




I am a firm believer in this as well. Modern metallurgy, proper machining and careful assembly of many of today's rifles produce really astounding results. Careful hand loads dialled in to the specific rifle brings things in even tighter.

I have had tremendously impressive results with all Sako rifles (models 75 and 85) if one excludes the Finnlights which for me have tended to hover around or a little larger than 1 to 1.5 MOA. The TRG and the Sako stainless varmint were small ragged hole rifles at 100 yards. My cousin had a Tikka .308 and when we put good hand loads through it, it was a solid 1/2 MOA.

I have seen an AR shoot teeny tiny ragged holes albeit with a custom Lilja heavy barrel. Every Blaser I've ever touched shot incredibly tight groups as well.

Remington 700s for me have always tended to shoot very well and will often go 1 MOA or better. Too bad they can't figure out how to drill the scope base holes in a straight line.

With the newer hardware, one will have expectations set very very high compared to the old days. On the flip side, everything is possible on the Internet and there is always far greater fantasy than reality, where expanding the truth is the norm, however I do know that if I have a modern bolt gun that doesn't live up to Internet fantasy, I am uninterested in owning it. I do not expect MOA out of most self loaders, lever guns, doubles, and pumps, but if a modern bolt gun can't measure up, to me it is only as useful as a tent peg and firewood.




Okay, just so I understand; you're saying I can go out today and expect to buy an ultra-light hunting rifle in something other than a 17 or 22 caliber (or other than in one of the specialist low intensity BR rigs) - so lets say a bog-standard 7mm-o8, .270, .280, 7 mm Rem Mag, 30-06 .300 Win Mag and I can fully expect that rifle (despite the fixed twist rate and paper thin barrel walls and less than perfect chamber) to consistently shoot sub-MOA groups across the full spectrum of the available projectile weights for that caliber? And you're suggesting that's the norm - with the good manufacturers?

Cos if that's true I think the OP should absolutely take his rifle back to the dealer and insist that it's replaced pronto. Absolutely.!




No. What I am saying is that a modern hunting rifle with a standard profile barrel should shoot 1 MOA or better. When one steps into the realm of whippy light weight noodle barrels, accuracy goes all to hell, and thus causes consternation given the high expectations set with the modern standard weight hunting rifles. To get tack driver accuracy in a light weight is very difficult and expensive. My Blaser K95 weighs less than a pile of fluffy feathers and absolutely WILL drive tacks. It also cost 3 times the price of a Sako or Weatherby ultralight.


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lonewulf
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Postman]
      #280716 - 11/04/16 12:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

With most of the better made guns today if you can't shoot under a 1" group there is something wrong. And it should shoot more than one group. Daryl I think that Somewhere around I have a lyman tong tool and dies for a hornet.




I am a firm believer in this as well. Modern metallurgy, proper machining and careful assembly of many of today's rifles produce really astounding results. Careful hand loads dialled in to the specific rifle brings things in even tighter.

I have had tremendously impressive results with all Sako rifles (models 75 and 85) if one excludes the Finnlights which for me have tended to hover around or a little larger than 1 to 1.5 MOA. The TRG and the Sako stainless varmint were small ragged hole rifles at 100 yards. My cousin had a Tikka .308 and when we put good hand loads through it, it was a solid 1/2 MOA.

I have seen an AR shoot teeny tiny ragged holes albeit with a custom Lilja heavy barrel. Every Blaser I've ever touched shot incredibly tight groups as well.

Remington 700s for me have always tended to shoot very well and will often go 1 MOA or better. Too bad they can't figure out how to drill the scope base holes in a straight line.

With the newer hardware, one will have expectations set very very high compared to the old days. On the flip side, everything is possible on the Internet and there is always far greater fantasy than reality, where expanding the truth is the norm, however I do know that if I have a modern bolt gun that doesn't live up to Internet fantasy, I am uninterested in owning it. I do not expect MOA out of most self loaders, lever guns, doubles, and pumps, but if a modern bolt gun can't measure up, to me it is only as useful as a tent peg and firewood.




Okay, just so I understand; you're saying I can go out today and expect to buy an ultra-light hunting rifle in something other than a 17 or 22 caliber (or other than in one of the specialist low intensity BR rigs) - so lets say a bog-standard 7mm-o8, .270, .280, 7 mm Rem Mag, 30-06 .300 Win Mag and I can fully expect that rifle (despite the fixed twist rate and paper thin barrel walls and less than perfect chamber) to consistently shoot sub-MOA groups across the full spectrum of the available projectile weights for that caliber? And you're suggesting that's the norm - with the good manufacturers?

Cos if that's true I think the OP should absolutely take his rifle back to the dealer and insist that it's replaced pronto. Absolutely.!




No. What I am saying is that a modern hunting rifle with a standard profile barrel should shoot 1 MOA or better. When one steps into the realm of whippy light weight noodle barrels, accuracy goes all to hell, and thus causes consternation given the high expectations set with the modern standard weight hunting rifles. To get tack driver accuracy in a light weight is very difficult and expensive. My Blaser K95 weighs less than a pile of fluffy feathers and absolutely WILL drive tacks. It also cost 3 times the price of a Sako or Weatherby ultralight.





Well, that's precisely what the OP has. He has an ultra-light rifle which in this case shoots 140 grain projectiles into an inch. In such circumstances I believe it is totally unreasonable to expect the manufacturer to refund the purchase price of the rifle on the basis that it's inaccurate. That's demonstrably quite untrue.

But there is a wider issue here. In essence the OP wants to know whether it's reasonable to expect a rifle to produce sub-MOA groupings right across the range of the available projectile weights. In the case of a .308 Win, for example, that might mean from 110 to 220 grains? Well, I don't believe it is. Realistically I think you'll find that some of those bullet weights will group well in a particular rifle and some won't. If in your case your full-bore Blazer can put any bullet weight into into an inch or less then I think you're very fortunate.

Edited by lonewulf (11/04/16 12:47 AM)


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Wayne59
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: lonewulf]
      #280718 - 11/04/16 01:08 AM

I am not sure weather that is a sarcastic comment or not. Re read the post. I am saying that if you spend several thousand dollars for a gun that your expectations should be high and all of the better manufactures will respond to any complaints that you have. Most of these manufactures have a sub minute of angle guaranty or less. The first thing I would do Rell is to ask Weatherby exactly witch ammo the test fired your gun with. Than try that ammo have a friend fire some groups with it. Your problem could also be in the mounts or scopes. Use the process of elimination so that the next time you contact Weatherby you can tell them that you tried there ammo you changed mounts and scope and that you eliminated all the variables that you can and the gun still shoots poorly.

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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280721 - 11/04/16 01:44 AM

Bought a .25/06 Savage AXIS. Horrid trigger, but extremely accurate. 3/8" to 7/8", 85gr. & 90gr. handloads, 115gr. Federal Factory Partitions as well as a handload using 117gr. Partitions. The 117's were the least accurate, but still were under an inch for 5 shots. Today, I think it's the bullets that are the accuracy deal - should not be the rifle.

My M46 Husky, even with the sized down .375's, shot under the inch mark, not much, but was consistent - a good barrel too, of course. 225gr. to 300gr. RN's - 14" twist. The rifle was made in 1929.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #280722 - 11/04/16 03:40 AM

If your gun shoots one bullet well than the chances that it will shoot another bullet of similar construction and weight well are very good. I always chronograph my loads so that if I have to switch components for any reason I can run back up to the same velocity and will usually get similar results.

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Postman
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280727 - 11/04/16 07:15 AM

True enough that bullet weight and bullet construction are two variables that will impact accuracy. There will be an upper limit to bullet weight and their propensity for good accuracy based on the twist rate in a given bore. The K95 previously referenced is in 270 Winchester and I've fed it weights from 110 grains to 140 grains with stellar results. Bullet construction is also important obviously. I've not tried all manner of bullet styles but so far, so good. I do try to avoid bullets such as the old now discontinued "Failsafes" that I have found to be poor accuracy performers for me in the past and I will in all likelihood be shooting a good quality premium bullet in any event. Bargain basement bullets, while they may be ok, would not be my go to bullet when seeking accuracy.

Not all loads can be magical. That is unrealistic, however I stand behind my conviction that a modern bolt gun should be able to shoot MOA out of the box. If it pleases the forum, I will further hedge the statement by suggesting a bolt rifle should be able to do so with a tuned load of it's liking. Where I get frustrated with the lightweights is when I struggle to get them to shoot at least one reasonable/representative load under an MOA. I define reasonable/representative as a load typical of the caliber, not a load that is at the far ends of the spectrum for a particular cartridge, i.e. 130 grain bullets in a .270 = reasonable/representative; 160+ grains not reasonable/ representative in a .270

Edited by Postman (11/04/16 07:49 AM)


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lonewulf
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280732 - 11/04/16 11:53 AM

Quote:

If your gun shoots one bullet well than the chances that it will shoot another bullet of similar construction and weight well are very good.




I agree.

Rell states that his rifle only shoots accurately with 140 grain Sierra Match Kings. I find that a little strange. IMO, if a rifle can print little groups with one brand of 140 grain projectiles chances are it is likely to do well with something similar in the same weight.

My advice to Rell (for what it's worth) would be to stick with it and do a little more mix and match before pitching the thing. That said, I still think it's unrealistic to expect such a light weight rifle to shoot well right across the spectrum.

Edited by lonewulf (11/04/16 11:54 AM)


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Brithunter
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: lonewulf]
      #280742 - 11/04/16 11:05 PM

The issue may be with the light weight rifle the shooter cannot cope wiht the sharper recoil felt. When I first acquired my BSA Majestic Featherweight deluxe in 270 Win I put the light alloy tubed Khales 4L2 scope on it. The Khales as a short eye relief and the first tiem I shot with ti it nearly caught me out. I then swapped the scope for a Lisenfeld 3-9x42 with more eye relief and had not more issues.

The Majestic Featherweight weighs 6 1/4lbs sans scope and 7lbs 12 oz ready to hunt. That is with the scope, mounts, leather sling and 4 rounds in the magazine.





Of course there are now lighter bolt actions being offered but this was light for 1959.

Shooting light rifles requires good follow through and hold something which many modern shooters especially in the UK where the reliance on Bipods is rife do not relaise or have.

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Wayne59
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: lonewulf]
      #280761 - 12/04/16 08:46 AM

No one insinuated that it should shoot every single bullet across the entire range of bullets in 270 cal. Reread the post. Now obviously if you try to run a 70gr bullet in your 270 Its not going to work Now I am not sure why Weatherby would use a match grade bullet to test fire a hunting rifle But I will not say that they didn't. That's why I suggested that he contact the manufacturer and ask what type of ammunition they tested the rifle with. Be sure before you ask the manufacturer to fix your rifle that it actually needs fixed. Eliminate all the variables. All the major American manufactures have a disclaimer concerning reloaded ammunition. So when you contact them the one thing you don't want to say is your new gun will not shoot your reloads.

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DarylS
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280765 - 12/04/16 09:44 AM

Wayne - the Vangard .243 (24") I purchased a while back, was guaranteed to shoot MOA with GOOD factory ammmo. I've never fired factory ammo in it, but it has shot moa or better with 55gr. Noslers at well over 4,000fps through 100gr. SPBT's from Hornady at pushing 3,100fps.

OH - did not like the 80gr. GMX at 1 1/2" but I only tried one load with them. I suspect juggling the seating depth might fix that. Without the bipod, but with the steel mounts and rings and 6-24X Elite M4200, it's 9 pounds 3 ounces.

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Wayne59
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #280775 - 12/04/16 11:42 AM

Most rifles fire properly tailored reloads better than factory fodder at least that has been my observations. I never use factory ammunition in any thing other than a 22 rimfire. If I was having problems with a new weatherby or any other brand of rifle the first thing that I would do is call the manufacturer, request the type of ammunition they used and test fire the rifle. If I still could not get it to shoot then I would check the bedding, check the crown, make sure the mounts are tight,change scope (even if I had to Borrow one) and finally have someone else to test fire the gun. If all this failed then I would contact the company that made the rifle, tell them what I had done. I am sure they will be happy to try and solve your problem. I just went through the same thing with a Savage 110 Tactical in 338 Lupua. You couldn't hit a bull in the ass at 100 yards.

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lonewulf
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Wayne59]
      #280865 - 14/04/16 10:00 AM

Quote:

Most rifles fire properly tailored reloads better than factory fodder at least that has been my observations. I never use factory ammunition in any thing other than a 22 rimfire. If I was having problems with a new weatherby or any other brand of rifle the first thing that I would do is call the manufacturer, request the type of ammunition they used and test fire the rifle. If I still could not get it to shoot then I would check the bedding, check the crown, make sure the mounts are tight,change scope (even if I had to Borrow one) and finally have someone else to test fire the gun. If all this failed then I would contact the company that made the rifle, tell them what I had done. I am sure they will be happy to try and solve your problem. I just went through the same thing with a Savage 110 Tactical in 338 Lupua. You couldn't hit a bull in the ass at 100 yards.





That would pretty much accord with my own experience. When I buy a rifle I'll do so with the intention of reloading for it because imo, reloading usually delivers the best results. For that reason I almost never buy factory ammo. Far too expensive for one such as me in any event. And although I can see the advantages of purchasing a rifle that "shoots anything you care to run through it" from day one, and "all day long", it doesn't seem as appealing to me as the sense of accomplishment that comes after you manage to nut-out a combination of components and seating depths that transforms something from the ordinary into the extraordinary.

I also think we have to cut the manufacturers a bit of slack. Hunting rifles (rifles that are intended to be carried in the field) are always going to be a compromise between tack driving accuracy (which we all want) and practicality. When I go deer stalking I need something I can carry for hours on end in the hills in circumstances where every additional pound saps your energy if not your will to live. In fact these days, I much prefer receiver sights on my rifles, in part because that's another pound of steel and glass I don't have to drag across the landscape and yes, that decision does require a trade-off between accuracy and portability. At some point, I'll want that rifle to deliver a projectile to point of aim from a clean cold barrel - more often than not, from a very cold barrel. If I muck things up, I may need another shot. On very rare occasions, one more. But that's it. If I needed something that would deliver tiny little clusters of projectiles from a rapidly over-heating barrel then I've equipped myself with entirely the wrong tool. In those circumstances I need something with a heavy weight barrel and an equally stiff (heavy) action at the very least. That isn't something I'll even enjoy looking at let along carrying around the hills - no matter how accurate it is. If my big bore hunting rifles can deliver one or two projectiles where I need them to go from a cold barrel, in a rifle that doesn't force me into the ground with every step, then that's accurate enough for me and my purposes.

Edited by lonewulf (14/04/16 10:54 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: lonewulf]
      #280997 - 16/04/16 06:56 AM

For anyone interested, in this months edition of EASTMANS HUNTING JOURNAL, they did a 12 lightweight gun review..all the most notables are in there along with a Weatherby lightweight in .257. they are claiming of getting 3/4 to 1/2 in 100 yard groups with theirs.

Best of the best was again, PROOF RESEARCH ..also one of the most expensive..but hear nothing but good things about them.

http://www.eastmans.com/

Ripp

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Brithunter
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Ripp]
      #281060 - 17/04/16 08:22 AM

Perhaps I am mistaken as I have never seen an Eastmans Hunting Journal but here in the UK the shooting press is really corrupt and they lie through their back teeth. We see rave reports on the most dire rubbish as they don't want to loose the advertising accounts. So I rarely buy any shootign publications now and believe none until I can verify things for myself............................ which is not often.

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Rule303
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Ripp]
      #281062 - 17/04/16 08:57 AM

A mate has had a couple of Weatherby featherweights and all have shot better than MOA, a couple of blokes I know with Rem mountain rifles shoot MOA. I would think that a thin barrel should shoot 3 into MOA with several loads. However I would expect them to place 5 shots into 1.5 to 2MOA.

Now to me a 3 shot group out of a thin barrel is quite acceptable after all you have that type of rifle to carry in steep country where you not likely to be bombarding a mob/herd of animals but 1 to 2 shots to put a single animal down. As this sort of country often presents long shots I believe the rifle needs to be a MOA or better, preferably better, performer. With todays technology and manufacturing techniques there is no reason a ultra light rifle can not do this IMHO.

I do not trust most equipment reports in most Shooting mags either.


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Rell
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Rule303]
      #281066 - 17/04/16 11:09 AM

I sort of think the rifle should shoot at least 1.5 inches with hand loads after serious development. I tried 12-15 different projectiles, 4-5 proplants, two brands of cases, 3 different primers. I shoot maybe 4000 thousand rounds a year from center fire rifles. I'm not a bench rest shooter but I have a half dozen rifles that will shoot MOA whith the rights loads and me at the trigger.

I appreciate the posts and advice. I think this is my last factory rifle.

Is it worth putting $800-900 into a new barrel? I'm leaning towards a 280 Rem Improved if I do.

I'll let every one know what I end up doing.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Rell]
      #281071 - 17/04/16 12:46 PM

Always wanted a .280 IMP my self.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Brithunter
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #281077 - 17/04/16 06:44 PM

The 280 AI is an interesting round and it is also a nice looking round:-



That is the first fireformed case from the new chamber.

However to answer your question:-

[Quote] Is it worth putting $800-900 into a new barrel?




Unless there is something about the stock and action you really like then no i do not feel it is worth it. Sell the Weatherby and buy a donor to build the 280 AI on. I am sure you can pick up a suitable donor rifle at a reasonable price one that is probably better made and fit a premium barrel of your choice in the profile and length of your choice.

My own 280 AI started with an old BSA 1st Pattern Monarch in 270 Win that I picked up several years bacl before I found a Nice example of the 1st Patter Monarc. I paid £25 for the poor condition one it now has a new BSA barrel that I altered to fit the Monarch action.





It was in 7x64 but in the alteration I reamed it out to 280 AI the only drawback is that the BSA barrel is from the CF2 line and they were only 22" long and I would have preferred at least 24" but this was the only way I could afford to do this as a new barrel here in the UK from other sources would ahve cost quite a bit more than your $800-$900 in fact one gunsmith quoted me over £800 just to rechamber and fit this CF2 barrel!

The stock will have to be replaced as a previous owner sanded it severly and the fore stock is very thin but an unsure if to get one of this shape (Majestic Feather weight) or a Monarch stock:-




So I say go for it!

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Ripp
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Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Brithunter]
      #281091 - 18/04/16 12:21 AM

Quote:

Perhaps I am mistaken as I have never seen an Eastmans Hunting Journal but here in the UK the shooting press is really corrupt and they lie through their back teeth. We see rave reports on the most dire rubbish as they don't want to loose the advertising accounts. So I rarely buy any shootign publications now and believe none until I can verify things for myself............................ which is not often.




agree with the above-have to take most mags with a grain of salt..but Eastmans is a little different that way..I personally have met them and talked with them for years..they are a very solid mag and usually call bs to something that is not worth purchasing..in the article they give the pros and cons of each gun..

I have a gunsmith out of Helena MT that used to do warranty work for weatherby, they commented to me years ago that weatherby's product had a lot to be desired and getting a little worse as time marches on..especially comments on their 9 locking lugs..and how in most guns usually 2 or 3 at most actually locked..the others simply did not for lack of quality control..

If it were me, I would try a new barrel maybe..think its is much easier to start with a simpler action and put a new barrel on it..IMHO

Good Luck

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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lonewulf
.300 member


Reged: 06/08/12
Posts: 227
Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Rell]
      #281140 - 18/04/16 11:33 PM

Quote:

I sort of think the rifle should shoot at least 1.5 inches with hand loads after serious development. I tried 12-15 different projectiles, 4-5 proplants, two brands of cases, 3 different primers. I shoot maybe 4000 thousand rounds a year from center fire rifles. I'm not a bench rest shooter but I have a half dozen rifles that will shoot MOA whith the rights loads and me at the trigger.

I appreciate the posts and advice. I think this is my last factory rifle.

Is it worth putting $800-900 into a new barrel? I'm leaning towards a 280 Rem Improved if I do.

I'll let every one know what I end up doing.






I guess if it's a project you want then it's worth whatever it is you're willing to pay. We tend to invest crazy sums in rifle projects at times and in reality, that expenditure is often totally unjustified - but we do it anyway. As interesting as the .280 AI may be, is it worth the cost of the conversion - well only you can judge that? Does the cartridge offer a significant advantage over standard loadings such as the .270 Win,.280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag and 30-06? I'd have said no. The .280 is a bit slower and the Rem Mag is a bit quicker. If you're using a barrel that's on the short side even those differences become somewhat fuzzy. So at the end of the day you have to decide if 100fps (give or take) over a standard .280 is really worth the additional cost and aggravation. Not to me it wouldn't be but that's just me.


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: lonewulf]
      #281141 - 19/04/16 02:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I sort of think the rifle should shoot at least 1.5 inches with hand loads after serious development. I tried 12-15 different projectiles, 4-5 proplants, two brands of cases, 3 different primers. I shoot maybe 4000 thousand rounds a year from center fire rifles. I'm not a bench rest shooter but I have a half dozen rifles that will shoot MOA whith the rights loads and me at the trigger.

I appreciate the posts and advice. I think this is my last factory rifle.

Is it worth putting $800-900 into a new barrel? I'm leaning towards a 280 Rem Improved if I do.

I'll let every one know what I end up doing.






I guess if it's a project you want then it's worth whatever it is you're willing to pay. We tend to invest crazy sums in rifle projects at times and in reality, that expenditure is often totally unjustified - but we do it anyway. As interesting as the .280 AI may be, is it worth the cost of the conversion - well only you can judge that? Does the cartridge offer a significant advantage over standard loadings such as the .270 Win,.280 Rem, 7mm Rem Mag and 30-06? I'd have said no. The .280 is a bit slower and the Rem Mag is a bit quicker. If you're using a barrel that's on the short side even those differences become somewhat fuzzy. So at the end of the day you have to decide if 100fps (give or take) over a standard .280 is really worth the additional cost and aggravation. Not to me it wouldn't be but that's just me.




I agree, the difference between all three is really nil..I just checked for grins on the NOSLER web site in the trophy class custom ammo..the MV for the 3 are as follows per their web site shooting a 140gr Nosler Accubond..
280REM---- 3000
280AI------3150
7mmREM-----3200

I realize you could squeeze more out of each if you wanted with handloads..but in all reality there is not much difference between any of them..the one thing I do like about the 280AI is if you need to you can still shoot 280REM.. if needed...that, and sitting around in camp it gives you something more to debate about..

Ironically, I am headed off soon on a hunt..took my 280AI--using the above mentioned factory loads..moved my scope so I went back out to re-sight in the rifle..after getting it in the area..I let it cool for about 10 minutes..and then fired these two factory ammo shots..rifle is 5 1/4lbs..with scope and mounts about 6 1/3 lbs..its a Lex Webernick on a Rem action..has always been a good shooter --not very fussy about most things I try in it..but again, these are factory Nosler loads..good enough for me..



--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26414
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: Ripp]
      #281144 - 19/04/16 03:11 AM

I've not found the AI's to be any problem whatsoever - quite the opposite, I am rather enamoured with them.

The steps for this one are quite simple.



This one is loaded with 300gr. bullets. The .375H&H on the left, in a factory Silver Tip load, I chronographed in a m602 BRNO at 2,474fps.

The one on the right is my .375/06IMP and it runs 2,472fps average using BLC2 or H4895 & does this with all of the 300's, RN's and BT's.

I've actually been using some of this brass since the mid 1980's - originally .375/06IMP, then necked and FF for my 9.3x62, then necked up again for the new .375/06IMP. The loads have not changed, however the action has and yes- my old brass needs a rest, however it is still working fine.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Poor shooting Weatherby, what to do? [Re: DarylS]
      #281152 - 19/04/16 06:06 AM

Those are impressive Daryl..thx for posting that...

I feel the same way, in the example of the 280AI, basically the same velocity as a 7mm REM, less recoil and a non-belted cartridge..whats not to like..

As to "Is it worth it" ??..Each to their own..but if one thinks about it, 3000 vs 3200fps difference between the 280 Rem and the 7mm REM mag..not quite a 7% increase for all that extra recoil and powder..based on that I can easily justify the AI..

Just trying to play devils advocate..but for me, as stated earlier, I like the different cartridges. They appeal to me more than the every day .270 or similar cartridges. As stated, thats just me..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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