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gryphon
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Ripp]
      #277362 - 31/01/16 06:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:



Agree with the above--the .o6 will handle anything that walks in N America.


Ripp




Yes agreed and of course DEPENDING on whom actually is using it at the time,that is most important as many cant seem to get any calibre to work!

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sharps4590
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: gryphon]
      #280120 - 01/04/16 10:25 PM

Always an interesting topic and, as others have mentioned, no definitive answer.

As with many of you I've been playing with lots of various cartridges in as many different rifles, domestic, British and German, for quite a few decades in both smokeless and black powder guise. The one thing that I have noticed more than anything else is the huge duplication in ballistics. There is smokeless powder cartridges introduced in the last couple decades that do no more than some introduced prior to WWI. In my experience that holds especially true if one uses more modern, slower burning propellants. When one is using black powder cartridges the differences between American, British and German cartridges becomes even less. My 10.5 X 47R is essentially, ballistically the same as the 40-82 WCF.

When it comes to performance on game all I can speak to is experience gained in the lower 48. For many that will be pretty tame when compared to cape buffalo, elephant, etc. On game from the size of whitetail, wild boar and up to elk it seemed to me one killed as well as the next if the bullet is put in the proper place. As with most I prefer a bigger, heavier bullet for larger game but as the posted article mentions I too am a fan of the 6.5 X 54 M/S cartridge. Geez...how can one not like it especially when used in the svelte 1903 M/S carbine? Anyway, I doubt any game animal ever thought, "oh, he shot me with a 243 so that isn't as bad as being shot with a 300 Win. Mag." The deadliest rifle I have ever used, and I killed a boat load of game with it, is my Shiloh Sharps in 45-90 loaded with 80 grs. of black and a 480 gr. NEI bullet cast 25-1. There isn't a doubt in my mind any other cartridge sporting similar ballistics and bullet weight in any other rifle would be just as deadly. Is my 45-90 the best. Good grief no. I like it awfully well but I'm not that narrow minded.

The question of the necessity of Magnum cartridges always arises. I've owned more than a few rifles so chambered and if I were relegated to owning one rifle, God forbid, it would be a 300 Win Mag., provided I could still handload. There is others certainly just as accurate and powerful. However, I have a great deal of experience with that particular 30 cal. Magnum and besides, I just like it. Therein lies the only reason needed to own any cartridge. I don't believe that a Magnum cartridge in any caliber is necessary for my hunting or most others. If a person is willing to hunt harder, that is get closer to the game in question, and willing to set personal parameters those cartridges developed before 1910 are all that is necessary. But where is the fun in that? I used to live in Wyoming and prior to moving there had hunted the west quite a bit. I know all too well that there is sometimes no way to get closer to a game animal. Using some of the older, slower cartridges can perhaps prevent one taking a shot they might take if carrying a fast stepping Magnum. That's where setting personal parameters comes in, in addition to knowing ones abilities at longer range. Whatever my parameters are they certainly aren't for everyone. They're set because that's the way I want to hunt and are applicable to no one else.

I hear and read a lot about new, "premium" bullets. From what I hear and read their performance is exemplary. On soft skinned game almost as good as a well cast bullet...and I say that tongue in cheek. However, I don't see how they can possibly be any more effective than a well cast bullet of suitable caliber, weight and velocity when put in the proper place. I suppose one could call them the original "mono-metal" bullet. I must reiterate, using cast bullets is a choice I have made for me. My choice has no bearing on what others choose to use. It is certain neither is wrong.

For many who suffer from "magnumitis" I believe a previous poster described it quite succinctly. They neither have nor take the opportunity to become intimately familiar with their rifle and attempt to make up for ability with power. That is not much different from taking me who mostly drives a 1/2 ton pickup and sticking me in a Formula 1 Ferrari. I'm probably going to make a wreck of things.

--------------------
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szihn
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: sharps4590]
      #280128 - 02/04/16 02:19 AM

Interesting question, but far too open-ended to make a hard science out of.
Best hunting cartridge….for hunting what, and where? A 30-30 is outstanding for deer in Vermont but lacks the range many hunters would like to have hunting deer in Nevada.

I think it is arguable that the “best hunting cartridge” for most hunting in the USA is either the 22 LR or a shot shell. This from the fact that far more small game is shot every year than big game.
I know men in Alabama and Oklahoma who kill about 6-8 deer a year each, but they kill 10-15 rabbits and birds every time they go out hunting for them, and they hunt for small game 6 months out of the year.
So if I were to make a wild guess, I’d say the average American hunter probably kills 50-100 animals a year and some far more. If we look at the number of kills of all game compared to the numbers of kills of big game, I would bet the big game kills are about 2% to 5% of the kills.

In my opinion if we were to look at only big game cartridges most Americans (most being those that hunt white-tails and maybe pigs) the best cartridges for that task are probably the 260 Rem, and the 6.5 Swede. My reasons are these:

These 2 shells have all the power and range that could be asked for from a deer rifle. They also fit in autos, bolt actions, pumps, lever actions and single-shot rifles.
In the case of the 260, the brass is easily made from surplus machine gun brass, so it’s cheap. Too bad the old cheap surplus rifle powders are a thing of the past.
Loaded with 120 grain bullets these 2 shells kick so little more than a 243 that the difference is hard to tell. But they can be loaded with bullets of up to 160 grains too, so that pushes their utility far out in front of the 243.

I do not own either one.
Why?
I live in Wyoming and the “common game” here is the elk. Sure we have all the antelope and deer you could want too, and sure…the 6.5s will do for elk, but there are better choices for this area. That is not to say I’d be unhappy with a good 6.5, but having grown up out here, I have always gone for the 270 and 30-06 as general purpose shells.

I have used a lot of different guns and cartridges in my 50 years of hunting in many states and a few other countries, but I have not seen many offerings that show me much more than my original picks for how well they put game on the ground.

In my life I have killed big game with the following:
222, 223, 6MM Rem, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 6.5 Grendal, 6.5 Swede, 6.8 SPC 270 Winchester, 270 WSM, 7X57, 7X64, 30-30 30-40 Krag, 300 Savage, 308, 30-06, 300 H&H, 308 Norma, 303 Brit, 8X57, 8X68, 338-06, 338 Win Mag, 348 Win, 9.3X74R, 375H&H, 416 Taylor, 404 Jeffery, 458 Win, 50-140 Sharps, 45-70, 45 cal muzzleloader, 50 cal muzzleloader, 54 cal muzzleloader, 58 cal muzzleloader, and 62 cal muzzleloader , and in handguns I have made kills with 357 mag, 41 mag, 44 mag, 45auto, 45 colt and 454 Casull, as well as arrows from recurve and long bows. This is a pretty complete list, but I may have forgotten a few at the time I write this. In addition to this list I have seen game killed with probably 20-30 more cartridges used by friends and clients.
My point is simply that I am speaking from experience, not reading about someone else’s opinion in a magazine somewhere.

But coming back to the 1st question, we have to acknowledge that by far, most American hunters are deer hunters and will not hunt elk, moose, caribou, bear or buffalo, and if they do, most will not hunt them many times in their lives. So it would seem sensible to buy a special rifle for the special game, and use a general-purpose rifle for everything else. So my vote goes to the 6.5 Swede in bolt actions and single shots, and the 260 for lever actions and pump (if Remington would do it anyway.)

Now for the issue of “one size fits all” which is really more a dream then reality, I still believe the best all-around cartridge ever made for the hunter of north American is the 30-06.

If we go to the international idea of an all-around rifle, the title would go to the 375H&H.

The reason this is actually a pipe dream is simple.

Anyone that can afford to hunt big game all over the 50 states and also Canada as well as those that can go to Africa and Australia and New Zealand can easily afford more than one gun. So this scenario is interesting only because it makes us do honest comparisons of guns and cartridges as well as bullet performance, but in the real world we have to admit it doesn’t matter all that much, and all game hunting is covered very very well by MANY different cartridges.

Shoot what you like, use a good bullet that will not go all to pieces on impact, and you have a good rifle if you are a good hunter.

Use what you like and use it within YOU’RE limitations and you’ll be fine. Don’t shoot if you are pushing your luck. Just be responsible and have the respect you should have for the game.

Edited by szihn (02/04/16 02:24 AM)


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Huvius
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: szihn]
      #280130 - 02/04/16 03:23 AM

I usually don't pay much attention to these types of articles but IMO when asking about the cartridge itself (not a particular factory load) you would have trouble beating the .458Win or Lott (or 450NE too).

First, handloaded, they can properly kill any animal on Earth from rabbits to elephant.

Any power load from the 455Webley to 450NE is possible with different reloading techniques.
Solids, softs, cast of all weights and even home made bullets like mine made from 45acp brass make the .458 class cartridges quite versatile.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Huvius]
      #280152 - 02/04/16 09:54 AM

If I were starting out, I would pick a 6.5mm and a 9,3x62mm and happily hunt the world over.
Adding further rifles would only be to fulfil specific roles such as a .458 or .500 for elephants or buffalo in dense vegetation where visibility is short; a subsonic .22LR for rabbits and squirrels; and a varmint/fox rifle such as a .20 or .222.


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Homer
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #280161 - 02/04/16 02:25 PM

G'Day Fella's,

What a dumb question!

According to the contents of my safe, there are at least 20+ Perfect Hunting Cartridges!
I know a few Kiwi's, that would argue that the .222Rem, is an ideal Red Deer (and other Deer)cartridge!!!

LOL!
Homer

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Homer]
      #280167 - 02/04/16 06:30 PM

Yes - .222 is a perfect deer ctg. as long as the right bullet is used, such as a 45 or 50gr. TSX or 60gr. Nosler Part. if it will shoot them.

I've a friend who thinks a .22-250 is THE perfect bear ctg. with 55gr. Speer Sp's at 3,700fps.

I, on the other hand, think the .222 and .22-250 are wolf & deer ctgs, with the .17CF's being primarily gopher and other field rat rifles. All other CF's are for moose, elk and etc.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gryphon
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: DarylS]
      #280168 - 02/04/16 06:46 PM

Quote:



I've a friend who thinks a .22-250 is THE perfect bear ctg. with 55gr. Speer Sp's at 3,700fps.





Daryl,I have only smelled a bear in a zoo but even I know that the .22.250 is not the PERFECT bear cartridge! PERIOD!

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lancaster
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: gryphon]
      #280195 - 03/04/16 03:12 AM

if we not talking about dangerous game ... 8x57

--------------------
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Rule303
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: lancaster]
      #280236 - 03/04/16 09:18 PM

Quote:

if we not talking about dangerous game ... 8x57




That is a very hard to beat calibre. I would take the 8X57 over a 308 or 30-06 any day.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Homer]
      #280249 - 03/04/16 10:26 PM

Quote:

G'Day Fella's,

What a dumb question!

According to the contents of my safe, there are at least 20+ Perfect Hunting Cartridges!
I know a few Kiwi's, that would argue that the .222Rem, is an ideal Red Deer (and other Deer)cartridge!!!

LOL!
Homer




Having shot a great many fallow deer with a .222. Almost all brain shot. In my fenced paddocks as meat culls. My opinion is it is FAR from an ideal sporting deer cartridge. Deer move their heads constantly. Perhaps in the wild, unaware deer are calmer and move their heads less. A good brain shot needs to be carefully taken with some patience. It is not hard to miss or wound the deer. I had my first jaw shot a week or so ago, but wuickly shot again in the brain. In the wild it might have been well and truly gone. Probably my standard is 19/20 one shot brain kills. I used to use a .22 Magnum as the bang is far quieter. However a good skull shot which misses the brain does not kill. A .222 will create more damage and often shatter the skull or damage the brain. A 6mm would be even better. However where I shoot them, I don't want a larger bullet zinging off anywhere. Same with brain shooting kangaroos. A miss on the brain with a .222 if it hit the jaw, can blow it off. If the roo gets away a terrible death. I think a .243/6mm is an ideal minimum.

A deer can also be killed quite cleanly with a good broadside lung shot. A friend claims his .22 RF placed on a certain dot (fallow deer) will die every time, quietly and cleanly. A .222 round placed in the lungs will probably blow up the lungs and quickly kill the deer. I wonder what the effect is with a 50 gr or 55 gr fragile soft point on a rib? Don't know. I haven't used the lung shot at all, always going for the brain shot.

Supposedly a fair number of "trophy" sambar deer are shot with .222's and .223's in the brain when dazzled by a spotlight, but hardly sporting and not a trophy by any standard.

Just some comments from personal experience.

A reason sporting free range hunting is usually recommended needing something like a .243 and larger. Because of variability of circumstances, lack of time or patience, different shooting angles and aiming points to reach the vitals.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #280250 - 03/04/16 10:34 PM

BTW I dislike articles talking about the "perfect" or the "best" cartridge or chambering as it is subjective to the rifle, the beast, the scenario and the person. What are the standards of "perfect"? A short cartridge? Or a long cartridge which provides more power? One with straight walls? Or one with tapered walls which extracts better? Rimless, magnum or rimless? One with super high velocity? Or a cartridge which delivers solid performance with a velocity which delivers good performance from the projectile of choice?

Lots of questions and answers and often more than one can be right for the right scenario.

Use of these sorts of words is often the same tactics of provocation that tabloid publishers use to generate debate and argument and provide them with more copy.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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cooch
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #280307 - 04/04/16 12:20 PM

Yes..... Bell shot a lot of elephants with the .275 and the .318.
Does this make those cartridges "good" for elephant?
Ask the ghosts - and there are quite a few of them - of those who tried to "do a Bell" and were off-centre by just a tiny amount.
Bell was a superlative shot, by all accounts, and did a lot of his hunting in the open. Not the tick stuff.

Or read Elmer Keith on why he recommended larger calibres for Elk than the '06. Despite its THEORETICAL performance on big game, what he found from EXPERIENCE was that he spent far too much time as a guide, tracking wounded game for clients who had used the calibres being lauded as totally adequate in this thread.

Just because something CAN be done, does not make it a good idea.

Likewise, pretending that a man who can shoot his .338 well off the bench, but not standing, has problems with his "magnum" is simple ego-stroking. Those of us who shoot the bigger calibres know that recoil is MORE of an issue off the bench than it is is freehand. The issue is not one of recoil, but of coordination, skill and practice.if you cannot recognise this, then I have to question your understanding.
I speak as someone who can shoot consecutive sub-MOA groups over a bench with my "magnums", but who lacks the physical coordination to shoot well offhand with a .22RF or any of the small centrefires.

It sucks, but I do what I can with what I have.

Yeah, bullet technology has improved, but Bell was using the old technology. Don't pretend that technology has made us all into Bells. It has given us a little more margin for error. Not orders of magnitude. Nor has it rescinded the laws of physics.

----------

Back to reality.
I would argue that the "perfect" hunting cartridge is a myth. It would shoot flatter than a .220 Swift, have the recoil of a .22RF and the knockdown power of a .505 Gibbs.
In practice, every choice is a compromise. It needs to shoot flat enough to make hitting your target at ranges that are only roughly known and without the time required to play with rangefinders and sight adjustment.
It need to throw a sufficiently heavy projectile to reliably put a hole in the vitals even when the angle is sub-optimal.
....... AAAAND you need to be able to shoot it well. That - within reason - is more an issue of practice, familiarity and knowing your limits (I mentioned my own, above).

There is a lot to like about medium-bores like the .375, and a lot of hard experience behind the old saying that you should shoot the largest calibre that you can shoot well. For big game, at any rate.

--------------------
"The only logical response to an animal that lives obsessed with avoiding capture is to chase it." - Jose Ortega y Gassett


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CarlsenHighway
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: cooch]
      #281699 - 29/04/16 05:14 PM

Quote:

Yes..... Bell shot a lot of elephants with the .275 and the .318.
Does this make those cartridges "good" for elephant?
Ask the ghosts - and there are quite a few of them - of those who tried to "do a Bell" and were off-centre by just a tiny amount.
Bell was a superlative shot, by all accounts, and did a lot of his hunting in the open. Not the tick stuff.

Or read Elmer Keith on why he recommended larger calibres for Elk than the '06. Despite its THEORETICAL performance on big game, what he found from EXPERIENCE was that he spent far too much time as a guide, tracking wounded game for clients who had used the calibres being lauded as totally adequate in this thread.

Just because something CAN be done, does not make it a good idea.

Likewise, pretending that a man who can shoot his .338 well off the bench, but not standing, has problems with his "magnum" is simple ego-stroking. Those of us who shoot the bigger calibres know that recoil is MORE of an issue off the bench than it is is freehand. The issue is not one of recoil, but of coordination, skill and practice.if you cannot recognise this, then I have to question your understanding.
I speak as someone who can shoot consecutive sub-MOA groups over a bench with my "magnums", but who lacks the physical coordination to shoot well offhand with a .22RF or any of the small centrefires.

It sucks, but I do what I can with what I have.

Yeah, bullet technology has improved, but Bell was using the old technology. Don't pretend that technology has made us all into Bells. It has given us a little more margin for error. Not orders of magnitude. Nor has it rescinded the laws of physics.

----------

Back to reality.
I would argue that the "perfect" hunting cartridge is a myth. It would shoot flatter than a .220 Swift, have the recoil of a .22RF and the knockdown power of a .505 Gibbs.
In practice, every choice is a compromise. It needs to shoot flat enough to make hitting your target at ranges that are only roughly known and without the time required to play with rangefinders and sight adjustment.
It need to throw a sufficiently heavy projectile to reliably put a hole in the vitals even when the angle is sub-optimal.
....... AAAAND you need to be able to shoot it well. That - within reason - is more an issue of practice, familiarity and knowing your limits (I mentioned my own, above).

There is a lot to like about medium-bores like the .375, and a lot of hard experience behind the old saying that you should shoot the largest calibre that you can shoot well. For big game, at any rate.





People always talk about Bell as if he was the only one, but a many people were shooting elephant with small cartriges in the old days. He wasn't the only one. He was exceptional in that he had a good career and made money out of it, and wrote books.
One could argue that a man who shot over a thousand elephants and made a fortune doing it probably knows more about killing elephants than anyone today. Remember he only shot bulls as well, as big as he could find.

A .303 solid through the brain or the heart is just as deadly as a .416. And Bell's shots were indeed up close, he sighted his rifles in for 80 yards.
Anyway.

Why the head shots with the .222? A body shot will kill just as well as a .308, to the same kill zone as well...
The .222 is deadly enough without TSX bullets. People who havnt used it are always assuming it needs some kind of 'leg up' - but the thousands of red deer and tahr shot with the little cartridge in the 60's and 70's were done with the factory 50 grain Norma soft point, and nowadays people are using the 55 grain Interlock.
Hardly anyone uses TSX bullets in the triple two, because they mostly won't stablise. (The 45 g TSX probably will, but I cant find anyone who has tried it, and I havnt yet myself.)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #281711 - 30/04/16 01:39 AM

In Australia and NZ when game animals are or were considered pests and "thousands were shot" often for profit, I do wonder how many were lost wounded to inadequate cartridge choice ...

The "fuck it, lets find another one instead ..." attitude.

Seen and heard it more than often myself ...

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John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #281712 - 30/04/16 01:44 AM

Quote:

Why the head shots with the .222? A body shot will kill just as well as a .308, to the same kill zone as well...
The .222 is deadly enough without TSX bullets. People who havnt used it are always assuming it needs some kind of 'leg up' - but the thousands of red deer and tahr shot with the little cartridge in the 60's and 70's were done with the factory 50 grain Norma soft point, and nowadays people are using the 55 grain Interlock.
Hardly anyone uses TSX bullets in the triple two, because they mostly won't stablise. (The 45 g TSX probably will, but I cant find anyone who has tried it, and I havnt yet myself.)




If that is a question to my comment? Less meat damage and cleaner kill. And used to make head shots with my .30-06 too on feral goats when I wanted to as it was just as accurate as the .222.

In my .222 I am just using factory Remington .222s with standard 50 gr SPs.

Shot another eight fallow on ANZAC Monday. Nine shots, one complete miss which did annoy me.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #281716 - 30/04/16 01:59 AM

The 50gr. TSX and 62gr.HP Norma Varmageddon are the two most accurate bullets in my 22-250. The TSX is running only about 3,850fps and the 62's some 3,550fps.

The TSX I would use on a deer, but not the 62gr. varmint bullets.
I double my 14" twist triple deuce will shoot any of the TSX's - too long & not enough speed to get them stabilized. Any of the 55gr. Sp's would probably work, but I've the .22-250 or some real rifles for that job.

Last time I was hunting deer with a .22 CF, we (daughter & I) walked right into a grizzly's living room - his 'man cave' area - I really felt foolish.

For bears, I have a .50-95 Winchester, 9.3x62 or .375/06IMP. I even have a .303 Express on a #4 and #4 in .303- so no need for the .22 on bigger and/or dangerous game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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cooch
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #281765 - 30/04/16 08:01 PM

I suggest that you read Phil Holden, among others.

Phil discussed caliber selection during his career as a deer culler and concluded that the .222 was just fine for NZ Red Deer if you didn't mind wounding a few that should have been killed. From memory, he finished his career using a 7x57 because he DID mind.

--------------------
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cooch
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: cooch]
      #281766 - 30/04/16 08:17 PM

The argument that any calibre will do if you hit it in the right spot, relies on the unreasonable assumption that all shots are either "good" or a complete miss.

In truth, there are probably as many shots that are slightly off-centre as any other category.
Taylor's "knock out formula" was based on his observations of this phenomenon. Both that very near misses produced sub-optimal results - such as the elephant getting up and killing you after having appeared to have been dead - and that using a more adequate calibre put the odds more in the hunter's favour.

Bell himself recorded cutting the tail off a "dead" ele to mark his ownership of the animal, only to find, on his return, that it had recovered from its "fatal" head-wound and decamped.

Same goes for many wounds that are fatal-but-not-yet. Whether it is the wound that does not leave an adequate blood trail for tracking in the late evening, or the same slow bleeding that permits the animal to either make cover or make it to the hunter for a little tit-for-tat before expiring.

--------------------
"The only logical response to an animal that lives obsessed with avoiding capture is to chase it." - Jose Ortega y Gassett


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cooch
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Reged: 21/09/03
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Loc: Southern NSW
Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #281771 - 30/04/16 09:47 PM

Quote:

In Australia and NZ when game animals are or were considered pests and "thousands were shot" often for profit, I do wonder how many were lost wounded to inadequate cartridge choice ...

The "fuck it, lets find another one instead ..." attitude.

Seen and heard it more than often myself ...




I recall listening to my father talking about shooting rabbits during the plague in the 50s.
They used .22 Shorts because there were millions of rabbits and this was the cheapest ammo available. They shot so much and got so good at judging trajectory that hits were routine at 100 yards. If you hit a rabbit, there was no need to hit it again. If it was gut-shot, it would die of peritonitis.

Hard men, but far harder times. It may also have had something to do with the fact that many of them were returned soldiers who had seen what real cruelty looked like.

I sometimes think that an obsession with animal welfare is a modern luxury.

--------------------
"The only logical response to an animal that lives obsessed with avoiding capture is to chase it." - Jose Ortega y Gassett


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Rockdoc
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: cooch]
      #281787 - 01/05/16 09:59 AM

Quote:

I sometimes think that an obsession with animal welfare is a modern luxury.




More a first world human luxury. With a large dash of hypocrisy.


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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Rockdoc]
      #281790 - 01/05/16 11:56 AM

+1

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Birdhunter50
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #281809 - 01/05/16 10:08 PM

If I could only have one gun to use on everything it would be a 30-06. A close second choice would be a good .308, and if more horsepower was needed, a good 45-70 double rifle would be hard to beat.
Bob


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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #282385 - 14/05/16 01:59 PM

The perfect cartridge is the most efficient ( least amount of powder, noise and recoil),that will ethically kill the animal you are hunting at the range you are taking your shot.
If you want one cartridge for all game it will be a poor compromise.
For large(1000lbs) non dangerous game. Depending on your tolerance to recoil:
Less than 200 yds. I like 9.3x57, .35 Whelen, 30-06,(220gr).
Over 200 yds. .338 Win Mag, .300 Win Mag, 8x68S.
There are several "perfect cartridges" for every animal at every distance and condition possible. What your local gun shop sells the most may be the best for you.

My favorites are the .22LR, .223Rem. .270 Win, .30-06, 8x57, 9.3x57, 9.3x62, .340 WBY, .375 H&H, .458 Lott but I have many others as well. The caliber is often limited to the rifle that chambers it. The finest Mauser action guns have older well proven calibers. If you want a Weatherby, Ultramag , Lapua Lazzeroni, Ruger or Blaser cartridge you are limited to certain brands.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: cooch]
      #296585 - 08/03/17 09:11 PM

Quote:



I sometimes think that an obsession with animal welfare is a modern luxury.




Well the LEGAL requirement for it certainly is a modern phenomenom BUT the existence of persons who understood care for animals and that animal cruelty is not necessary has always existed. Just like there has always been the complete arseholes who lack empathy, whether for animals or even their fellow man. And these arseholes who have always existed have never cared about cruelty to animals, humans, whatever. A lack of empathy is a definition for evil btw.

In the farming community there have always been some farmers who cared for their animals and limited harm or pain to them. And other arseholes who think nothing of the worst cruelty, whether by inaction. Or by action.

The modern part is legal constraints and obligations.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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