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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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264
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Reged: 15/02/11
Posts: 596
Loc: NT Australia
Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: GG375]
      #185124 - 03/07/11 05:29 PM

Very impressive set of hooks. well done. Mick

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kuduae
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: NitroX]
      #185137 - 03/07/11 09:47 PM

While the 8x57IS (.323 bullet)is a standard cartridge in Germany now, the old 8x57I (.318") is almost forgotten. As no factory loads are currently produced, it is a pure handloader's cartridge by now.

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DarylS
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: kuduae]
      #185152 - 04/07/11 02:40 AM

The 8x57 is a good round. For anyone loading one, I suggest buying one box of Norma ammo, and loading to it's web size on firing.

You'll then see you can about duplicate the .30/06 if similar barrel length.

For a handloader, they are equal. For someone who shoots factory only, and only buys US made, it's barely better than a .30/30 - 20"carbine.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mauserand9mm
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: DarylS]
      #185167 - 04/07/11 08:47 AM

My 1903 model Turk Mauser (8x57) has a 29" barrel and the 1950s vintage ex-military Turkish ammo that used to be available (I think it still is in the US) used to clock 3000fps with 150gn (154gn?)projectiles out of it. That ammo was fairly hot though.

Edited by mauserand9mm (04/07/11 08:48 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #185174 - 04/07/11 09:26 AM

Seems to me the Norma stuff used to be loaded to somewhat over 50,000CUP. That puts it right up with most modern ammo - especially when loaded to those levels with modern powders. Due to having a larger groove and bore diameter than the '06, if loaded to the same pressure, it will provide about the same ballistics, even though lacking a bit in case capacity. My old blue covered Pacific manual not only shows this in it's loads, but explains it as well in the text.

There are no flies on modern 8x57 loadings - only on those of RP and WW, designed and loaded, possibly, for tight neck chambers with .318" groove diameter rifles.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mauserand9mm
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: DarylS]
      #185179 - 04/07/11 09:46 AM

Yes the US factory ammo (I had experience with the Winchester 8x57 ammo) is very underloaded for the run of the mill 0.323 8mm rifles. I think they do this to avoid getting sued if someone uses it in a poor condition rifle in 0.318 and blows it up. They use 0.321" projectiles too (surprised they don't use 0.318"). My rifles didn't shoot this stuff well and the primers backed out (ie very light load).

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nhdblfan
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Reged: 31/08/07
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: NitroX]
      #186298 - 22/07/11 09:52 AM

Well count me in for the 348 Win,have a nice prewar 71 that does make the trip to the stand come deer season.
Also use 8X56 M/S,6.5X54MS,8X57JS and even take the Cape out with the 8X57R360 !
(I do have some boring ones like the 06 too)


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Oldsarge
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: nhdblfan]
      #186310 - 22/07/11 03:02 PM

I agree about the .348 but I strongly suspect that I could find factory ammo for the 8x57 with fewer than a dozen phone calls. Now, for a hard to feed rifle, try a .318 Westley Richards! I had to have the dies made and the damned bullets cost over a buck a piece from Woodleigh. The only other brand I've seen offer them sent me two boxes that were enough oversize that I got blown primers! It makes fireforming no fun at all . . .

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: Oldsarge]
      #186311 - 22/07/11 03:12 PM

Quote:

I agree about the .348 but I strongly suspect that I could find factory ammo for the 8x57 with fewer than a dozen phone calls. Now, for a hard to feed rifle, try a .318 Westley Richards! I had to have the dies made and the damned bullets cost over a buck a piece from Woodleigh. The only other brand I've seen offer them sent me two boxes that were enough oversize that I got blown primers! It makes fireforming no fun at all . . .





Old Sarge
How long ago did you have to get the dies made ?

I thought they were off the shelf ? Mine were.


Other bullets are available in .330 calibre
= nice and cheap one's.


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Oldsarge
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #186336 - 23/07/11 02:52 AM

Gosh, that's a good question. It must have been eight or nine years ago. The caliber was listed in the Huntington catalog but they didn't have any in stock so I had to wait an extra ?? days while my order worked its way up from the bottom of the inbox.

Whose "nice and cheap" .330 bullets do you recommend? And where do you get them from?

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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500Nitro
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: Oldsarge]
      #186339 - 23/07/11 03:02 AM

Quote:


Whose "nice and cheap" .330 bullets do you recommend? And where do you get them from?




Now you are pushing me.

Try Graf's.

PRVI BULLET 8x56R (.330) 208gr FMJBT 100/BAG
24.99

Do a search around for 8x56R bullets.

I know there are more, I just can't remember where I saw the list.


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DarylS
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #186341 - 23/07/11 03:19 AM

Yeah - they are supposd to be available here in Canada as well - but the supplier is out at this time - very reasonable, but pointed fmj's, I believe. wouldn't be bad if they are round.

Friend of mine just received his Lee dies (3) for drawing .338's down to .330" - his cost with shipping, was $100.00 CDN - about $150.00 US - (just kidding 'cause usually its the other way around)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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500Nitro
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: DarylS]
      #186342 - 23/07/11 03:24 AM

I am currently searching for some SN one's.

I just can't find the list where I saw them.


Edit
Just found this on the net dated 2009

buffaloarms.com carries brass and 5 different grain sizes of bullets including the Hornady .330


Also this
HRN 8x56R (.330) 205gr SP BULLET SpirePt PER 100
(Looks like a Hornady bullet and from memory that sounds right).


And PRVI definately make a SP bullet as it is listed on their web site.
B-561 8 mm SP 208 0.33


Edited by 500Nitro (23/07/11 03:29 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: Oldsarge]
      #186542 - 26/07/11 01:07 AM

Quote:

Gosh, that's a good question. It must have been eight or nine years ago. The caliber was listed in the Huntington catalog but they didn't have any in stock so I had to wait an extra ?? days while my order worked its way up from the bottom of the inbox.

Whose "nice and cheap" .330 bullets do you recommend? And where do you get them from?




Sarge

Bruce Bertram makes .318 WR (.330) projectiles in 180 gr and 250 gr weights.

Simply constructed bullets, not weldcore sort of standard but at a good price. Not sure how hard they would be to post internationally.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Oldsarge
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: NitroX]
      #186650 - 27/07/11 09:22 AM

It turns out that Hornady makes .330 bullets for the, I believe, 8x49. They come in 215 gr. and are about 2/3 the cost of Woodleighs. I must get some, for fireforming if for no other reason. On the other hand, they would make really dandy pig smashers . . .

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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500Nitro
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: Oldsarge]
      #186651 - 27/07/11 09:51 AM

Quote:

It turns out that Hornady makes .330 bullets for the, I believe, 8x49. They come in 215 gr. and are about 2/3 the cost of Woodleighs.




I thought Hornady made a heavier bullet but I haven't been able to find it on their list or anyone's web site.


Do you have a link ?


.


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DarylS
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #186653 - 27/07/11 10:20 AM

I'll have to check into that, Hornady, you say - perhaps they are for export only?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Oldsarge
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: DarylS]
      #186712 - 28/07/11 09:00 AM

My bad! It's Graf for the 8x56R. Huntington carries them, here https://www.huntingtons.com/bullets_graf.html. At 206 grains, they make a decent black bear/deer load, methinks, and they are inexpensive enough to use in fireforming.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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DarylS
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: Oldsarge]
      #186713 - 28/07/11 09:27 AM

I got a "not found" on that url. So - this is ammo, not bullets?

The 8x56R ammo is mostly available only with 206gr. fmj's, not hunting bullets. The loose fmj bullets themselves are listed for sale at tradeexcanada.

Of course, they might shoot OK if simply reversed. I would not cut the nose off - even though Ackley said they could not get the core to spit out of such modified FMJ's. The reversed bullets were used as steel plate penetrators during the first war for shooting snipers behind such plates. Reversed and shot backwards would probably do for deer, bbear, elk or moose out to 150yards or so, if accurate enough - they just might be. Used this way, even steel cored fmj's can be deadly, creating massive cavitation coupled with unparalleled penetration, as anyone reading Harold Johnson's stuff about brown bears and his .50 Alaskan knows.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Oldsarge
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: DarylS]
      #186724 - 28/07/11 11:42 AM

Hmmm . . . Well, just go to huntingtons.com and click on 'bullets' and then 'graf'. They list their 206 gr. bullets as SP, not FMJ so I suspect that they would be good hunting bullets. And yes, these are bullets, not loaded ammunition.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


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magnum308
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Reged: 19/05/04
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Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: gryphon]
      #187887 - 13/08/11 10:16 AM

Quote:


Sort of same reason I have 308 and 358 cals

but for me both are Norma Magnums on a world scale they dont rate in huge numbers!




+1
Nothing wrong with the .308 Norma Mag, the first standard length .30cal belted mag (though I think I'd have to concede this to the 30-338). Nevertheless, a great .30 cal magnum cartridge and holds its own with the rest.



Load is 180 gr Hornady SPBT interlocks @ 3,153 fps (chronographed) and shoots less than ¾” at 100 yards



Custom rifle built by Ron Webb on FM Mauser 98 action.

--------------------
____________________________________________
Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle


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9.3x57
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: magnum308]
      #187888 - 13/08/11 11:44 AM

Daryl;

This thread is about Forgotten Cartridges....

What about the 9.3x57???

Have we forgotten?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Yochanan
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #187897 - 13/08/11 09:51 PM

Quote:

Daryl;

This thread is about Forgotten Cartridges....

What about the 9.3x57???

Have we forgotten?




Nope, very much alive and kicking in this part of the world.

Shops around my area sold more new rifles, last year, in 8x57IS than 308win.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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9.3x57
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: Yochanan]
      #187901 - 14/08/11 12:53 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Daryl;

This thread is about Forgotten Cartridges....

What about the 9.3x57???

Have we forgotten?




Nope, very much alive and kicking in this part of the world.

Shops around my area sold more new rifles, last year, in 8x57IS than 308win.




Don't worry, I haven't forgotten the 9.3x57. Getting ready to go to the range now with two. Bear season approaches!

Also, regarding your statement above, were they newly chambered 8x57's or old, used rifles? If new, what companies are chambering in 8x57?

Thanks.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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fuhrmann
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Re: Almost forgotten cartridges .... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #187902 - 14/08/11 02:32 AM

The 8x57 IS and also the rimmed 8x57 IRS are very much alive in Germany. Couldn't tell you any new German made rifle that is not offered in one of the two twin cartridges.

fuhrmann


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