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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe
      #133062 - 22/04/09 06:54 AM

Don S has added an impeccable 1916 first model Newton in .256 cal to his collection of treasures. Do enjoy the pics as he posts more details.

Good hunting, everyone!























--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #133066 - 22/04/09 07:22 AM



Thanks Mehul!.

Newton couldn`t entirely "leave" Mauser..
I have the book by Bruce M Jennings: "Newton, The father of high velocity"( 1985)...its an extremly important book in a gunbook collection. Newton was really a true pioneer in cartridge development. If we leave out the Lazzaronis, I would claim no new cartridge really appeared after WW1..Charles had been there and done it.
The daughter of Bruce Jennings sold a few of Bruces Newton rifles some 3 years ago on GunsAmerica...wished I had bought just one.
Very fine rifle posted here, honers a great period cartridgedeveloper + a collector of fine tast.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #133069 - 22/04/09 08:01 AM

Very very nice!
Thanks Don and Mehul.

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dons
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Reged: 18/08/07
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: rigbymauser]
      #133077 - 22/04/09 08:42 AM

I think rigbymauser sums up Newton's accomplishments in cartridge design but Charles didn't do too bad on rifle design either. This 1916 model was his answer to the Mauser Oberndorf sporter and considered by many to be the finest bolt rifle of its day. The smoothness of the action reminds me of the MS. Many of the features were engineering marvels and were way ahead of their time. Timing is everything and caused the demise of the Newton.

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4seventy
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: dons]
      #133080 - 22/04/09 09:12 AM

Don,
How hard is it to find a Newton in that sort of condition?
I would imagine an example like this would be pretty rare?

I think that the 1950's BSA featherweight rifles copied the Newton "look".
The BSA didn't have the same features as the Newton, but the styling is very similar.
The BSA didn't have the take down feature, nor the multiple bolt lugs, or the two trigger system.
The action lines, and stock are similar however.

The Newton looks like it was a very pupose built rifle, designed to work well in the hunting field.
That one sure is a beautiful example!

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dons
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: 4seventy]
      #133160 - 22/04/09 09:40 PM

Newtons come up for sale on occasion. There are 2 on GunBroker now. The problem is finding one that has not been altered in some way. The 30 and 35 cal. guns seem to suffer cracked stocks from recoil. These were wildcat cartridges back in those days.

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capoward
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: dons]
      #134049 - 01/05/09 09:59 AM

Dons,

I’m a collector of Chas. Newton’ catalogues, cartridges and books regarding his firearms related endeavors; but to date no Newton rifles.

I’m not attempting to be an antagonist…but why would you make the statement?
Quote:

These were wildcat cartridges back in those days.

Both of the .30 Newton and .35 Newton cartridges were factory loaded and sold to the rifling public basically from 1916 period through 1950. The Newton factory first sold both with “REM-UMC”, “N.A.Co.”, and the “N.A.CORP.” headstamps during the 1916 through 1920 era. Then the Western Cartridge Company manufacturing both cartridges during 1921 through the early 1940s era with the “Western” headstamp and finally Speer Products Company manufactured both during the 1948-1950 periods with the “Speer” headstamp.

Reason I ask the question is that the factory manufacture and sell of ammunition relating to specific firearms cartridges is not a typical scenario for a “wildcat” cartridge.

And basically looking for your prospective as a collector of Newton rifles.

Jim

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Old_Glass
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Reged: 17/03/10
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: capoward]
      #157010 - 21/03/10 03:22 AM

I'm sure everyone here knows that the Newton interrupted thread bolt head is a direct copy of the Ross .280 bolthead.

This photo of a blown up Newton in .256 (SN:3008) from "The Ross Rifle Story" (p.423) shows receiver walls thinner than I would expect looking at the photo above.

The integral scope bases were an unusual feature for that time. Did Newton pioneer this feature?



Edited by Old_Glass (21/03/10 03:23 AM)

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: Old_Glass]
      #157044 - 21/03/10 01:08 PM

Quote:

I'm sure everyone here knows that the Newton interrupted thread bolt head is a direct copy of the Ross .280 bolthead.



And the Ross was a copy of the Palmer bolt action carbine patented in 1863.

The caption of the picture went on to say that "The principles of the design are an improvement over Ross because it is safer, simpler and cheaper to make, and would give proper primary extraction for a spent round."

Quote:

The integral scope bases were an unusual feature for that time. Did Newton pioneer this feature?



The flats on the receiver ring and bridge are not integral scope bases. They were intended to be used as areas for "telescopic sight blocks" as mentioned in several Newton catalogs.

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Old_Glass
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: xausa]
      #157052 - 21/03/10 05:58 PM

Interesting reference to the Palmer, although of course the interrupted thread breech was in general use for artillery by the time Ross began his designing. It would be interesting to know if Ross was aware of or inspired by the Palmer though.

I agree with the conclusions of the authors of "The Ross Rifle Story", but that wasn't an issue I wanted to raise here. The scanner cut off most of the caption and I cleaned off the rest. The Ross is still an interesting design with plenty of history attached, especially for us Canadians.

This Newton looks to be in the 8000 range so perhaps the receiver ring was thickened from earlier specs? It's a pity there wasn't more information on how that Newton was blown-up, or by who.

Semantics aside, I guess it's obvious what I referring to vis a vis the flats for attaching scope mounts to.

I hope you weren't offended by my post. I'm not casting aspersions on the Newton, but it is a pretty clear case of "the sincerest form of flattery", I think.

Edited by Old_Glass (22/03/10 04:12 PM)

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pjaln
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: Old_Glass]
      #157071 - 22/03/10 12:04 AM

don , a newton collector would sometimes set up at the manchester holiday inn show ,new hampshire , he was local and had quite a few guns ,, you do have the hard bound book im sure?...paul

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xausa
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Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: Old_Glass]
      #157078 - 22/03/10 01:27 AM

Quote:


Semantics aside, I guess it's obvious what I referring to vis a vis the flats for attaching scope mounts to.

I hope you weren't offended by my post. I'm not casting aspersions on the Newton, but it is a pretty clear case of "the sincerest form of flattery", I think.



Semantics aside, when someone says "integral scope bases" I am thinking Sako, BRNO, CZ, or even square bridge Mauser, the last of which clearly pre-dates the Newton.

I, too, am curious about the Newton blow-up. I wonder if it was a case of trying to use the wrong cartridge in the rifle. This was the cause of a number of Springfield blow-ups, when 8X57 rounds were fired in the .30-'06 chamber. Both the bolt and receiver of the Newton were of a chrome vanadium alloy "capable of yielding a better combination of strength and ductility than the more commonly used carbon and low alloy steels."(Stuart Otteson, in his authoritative work, "The Bolt Action" Volume II)

Otteson describes the Newton action as combining "the strength of the Ross bolt head--seven lugs of basic buttress thread form--with Mauser's one piece bolt, ending up with one of the strongest and most certain locking systems ever devised for a high-power rifle."

No offence, and I agree about "the sincerest form of flattery", which, in this case, was the Winchester Model 70, which adopted the Newton angled ejector, the low scope safety, the low scope bolt handle, and the floorplate latch.

One area the Newton design falls down in is the bolt stop, which relies on a fragile pin to withstand the force of vigorous bolt manipulation. This pin, which is not even heat treated, bends easily and puts the bolt stop out of operation, making it impossible to remove the bolt for cleaning. Fortunately, the takedown feature of the Newton makes a repair easy, and replacing the pin with the shank of an appropriately sized drill bit solves the problem.

I bought my first Newton, a .30-'06, in the 70's. The barrel appeared to be a Springfield barrel which had been used to replace the original Newton, so I went to the trouble to have a reamer made for the .256 Newton cartridge and replaced the .30-'06 barrel with one in that caliber. It was fitted with a Zeiss Zielklein scope in a Redfield Senior mount, and that is the way I have left it. As a .256 Newton (cases made from .270 Winchester brass), it is accurate and deadly.

Since then I have acquired other Newtons, .256's, another .30-'06 and a .30 Newton, and most recently my prized 1922 Newton Mauser, rebarrelled by Niedner in .270, argueably a cartridge derivative of the .256 Newton. http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post156312

I have never owned a Buffalo Newton, although I have worked with one owned by a friend.

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333Jeffery
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Reged: 21/04/06
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Loc: Florida
Re: DonS Adds a Newton to his Gunsafe [Re: xausa]
      #158986 - 15/04/10 04:29 AM

There is a new book out about Newton, called "The Newton Rifle", by Lawrence Wales. I just ordered a copy from Neconos.com. I hope it's more in-depth than Jenning's book.

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