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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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260rem
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Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs.
      #133358 - 24/04/09 04:04 PM

I'm trying to decide on what barrel to get For my R93 for shooting Buff and Big pigs.
The Pigs are the biggest and nastiest that I have ever encountered with none under 100kg a lot 150kg+ and a habit of charging every time with ranges from 20m-250m, the Buff are solid and very alert with most shots either being 50m- running strait at you or 100+ running away from you.

I have a 9.3X62 Barrel ATM but I have never used one before so I lack confidence in it's performance as it's not the most impressive round I do however have faith in the 375H&H thats rock solid as it has performed outstanding in the past, but A mate has a very high recommendation for the 300wby and has shot a hell of a lot of Buff with it.

My trouble is that I also plan on hunting Moose and Bear in Canada late next year or so where range and power will be a factor, I think the 300wby would be best for that but I don't class it as a stopping caliber for the Buff, and both the (.3 and H&H might be short on range for the moose as ranges can go to 300m.

So do I get the 300wby or use my 270wby for Canada and one of the others for Buff and pig's here.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #133378 - 24/04/09 09:50 PM

I'd use a 9.3x62 with 286 gr bullets anyday over a .300 for water buff.

Can't comment on Canada except a .375 H&H is similar in trajectory to a .30-06 so with good spitzer bullets may still do the job. Or the 9.3mm with similar bullets but a slightly lesser range.

Sure some of the US members could comment on moose and bear.

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260rem
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: NitroX]
      #133550 - 26/04/09 04:40 PM

I think that I will be fine with the 270wby for Canada but as for my Aussie gun I'm still undecided as I have a buyer for my 9.3X62 Barrel but I don't know whether to keep it or get something with more punch.

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500Nitro
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #133551 - 26/04/09 04:42 PM



9.3 is fine for Buff - as long as you are the hunter
and not the PH.

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260rem
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #133559 - 26/04/09 06:18 PM

Thats the thing, I don't go with a PH and I hunt on foot, so I like to have something that will get me out of trouble if I find myself in it.

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500Nitro
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #133561 - 26/04/09 06:39 PM


260

Have you hunted buff before / do you have experience with them.

Are you a good shot ?

Are you fast on the reload and re shooting ?

If you do have experience etc and yes to the above, then the 9.3 should be fine, especially with 286 and 320gn Woodleigh's.

If not, MAYBE go with something bigger.


It also depends on are you going for Big Bulls or just whatever you come across ?

Big bulls take a bit more punishment that the average cow or teenager.

I shoot them with anything now but make sure of my shots.

I used a 338WM on a big bull this year but got the shot placement 100% perfect and I was fine. And it was in a potentially dangerous situation (close in, thick scrub).

Anyway, keep posting if you want and discuss it further.

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260rem
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #133575 - 26/04/09 09:35 PM

Yes, yes, yes and yes but I still like to be safe then sorry, I was thinking about just using the 270wby on buff with a 150gn TSX and only hunting with someone with a much bigger gun but I do like the safety factor and certainty of a proper big d/g game caliber which the 270wby just isn't.

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9.3x57
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #133585 - 27/04/09 01:39 AM

If the choice is between a 9.3x62 and a .375, there isn't any.

When a fellow like Robertson says he believes the 9.3x62 actually kills cape buff quicker than a .375 H&H, I take notice. At any rate, there is enough room for argument both ways which usually means that neither will decidedly perform better than the other.

Neither of them are the absolute finest long range calibers available, but if the choice is between a 9.3x62/.375 H&H and a .270 Weatherby for buffalo, then I am confused. Sure, the .270 is going to shoot flatter, and if your main intention was mule deer, whitetail, sheep or antelope I'd say get the .270...but DON'T sell the 9.3x62 barrel.

The 50% greater powder weight and slightly heavier bullets of the .375 does seem in my guns to result in somewhat more noticeable recoil than the 9.3x62.

I do not think you will find many Canadian hunters who would take the .270 WBY over the .375 {or 9.3x62 for that matter} for bear and moose. I'm sure some will weigh in here.

Regardless of it all, if you dump that 9.3x62 barrel, I think you are making a big mistake.

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #133592 - 27/04/09 02:35 AM

Quote:

Regardless of it all, if you dump that 9.3x62 barrel, I think you are making a big mistake.



I agree. Hang onto it if you can.

I think a 9.3x62 with 286/320 gr will not be a lot lesser than a .375 H&H Mag. A couple hundred feet per second difference? My .375 H&H Mag with current loads only does 2450 fps with 300 grainers for example. I could try and build loads shooting perhaps 2550 fps, but the barrel is shortish anyway.

What does a 9.3 do with 286 grs? 2200 to 2400 fps? Would have to consult a reloading manual but not much difference.

If you want to see a worthwhile difference you will need to go to a .416 Rem Mag R93 barrel IMO.

I like the .375 but not a great difference. Haven't shot any big bulls with my 9.3x74R only cows and smaller bulls but they died well. Did try to pick better shots though. My 9.3x74R was pushing 286 grs at about 2150 fps only too.

However I do prefer the .450 for big stuff just because ...

--------------------
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500Nitro
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: NitroX]
      #133595 - 27/04/09 03:06 AM


In the scheme of things, having shot a fair few Buff with both 9.3's and 375H&H, I really doubt with the same bullet placement and same bullet that you or the Buff could really tell the difference.

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Ripp
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: NitroX]
      #133603 - 27/04/09 04:44 AM

]
Quote:

Quote:


If you want to see a worthwhile difference you will need to go to a .416 Rem Mag R93 barrel IMO.
[/quote

+=

Agree--there is a noticable difference, at least in cape buffalo when hitting them with a .375 vs .416--but, the .375 will do just fine as well...


+
(quote)I do not think you will find many Canadian hunters who would take the .270 WBY over the .375 {or 9.3x62 for that matter} for bear and moose. I'm sure some will weigh in here.
quote..


==
Has been my experience as well, at least with bears,,,especially if you hunt the BIG bears as in Brownies...used a .375 and worked very well...would much rather use a .375/9.3 in the woods for moose than a .270 of any flavor...

Ripp

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500Nitro
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: Ripp]
      #133608 - 27/04/09 05:53 AM



Ripp,

I think you'd find that with any animal you'd notice a difference between 375H&H and 416.

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Ripp
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #133631 - 27/04/09 11:32 AM

Quote:



Ripp,

I think you'd find that with any animal you'd notice a difference between 375H&H and 416.




Agree---actually when I first started heading to Africa, I didn't think there would be that noticable of a difference-- but there truly is...don't want to restart another debate on the merits of the two calibers...but it is what I witnessed..and as they say "it is what it is"...

Ripp

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500Nitro
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: Ripp]
      #133632 - 27/04/09 11:36 AM


Well, i look at the splits as this (excluding magnum calibres like Weatherby's)

30 cal is way over the others below it.
not a fan of 338 or 358
375 cal
Above 40 cal
Above 50 cal - which is really noticeable IMHO.

And then you also have splits across these with heavy for Calibre bullets which IMHO makes a big difference as well.

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Dr_Deer
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #133634 - 27/04/09 12:14 PM

If you only have a standard forend in a synth stocked R93 your limited to the .375H&H anyway (although there was talk of a run of .400H&H barrels in the standard profile).

As for long range capability, how long do you want to go? The 260g Nosler Accubond has a BC of .473 (if memory serves..) and can be spat out of the 25 3/4 inch Blaser barrel at 2700fps quite easily with ADI starting loads. Not as flat as WBY but maybe, but flat enough to take big game out to 350m with a backline hold.

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tophet1
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #133636 - 27/04/09 12:39 PM

I haven't shot anything large with my 9.3x62. I think aushunter has a recovered 320 Woodleigh but he maybe the only one who has recovered one from game. There is a message there. 260, your a good shot, have faith brother.

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260rem
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: tophet1]
      #133640 - 27/04/09 01:09 PM

Just to not, I never really thought about using the 270wby for buff but I new it get the topic going.

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Cinghiale
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #133652 - 27/04/09 06:52 PM

I agree with 500Nitro and the others re 375 to 416 gap.
I shot a fair few buffalo last year with my 404, a few with my fathers 338 and a handful with my 300 Win Mag.

I would not recommend trying anything smaller than the 338 IF you are hunting alone and would be much happier with my 404 as I believe it stopped them a good deal better than the 338 and was SOOOO far ahead of the 300 that I may as well have sold it while I was living in the NT!

Keep the 9.3 as it has a good many advocates and a very strong pedigree to recommend it. It is also ahead of the 338 re bullet pen

Good luck and shoot straight,

MOG

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500Nitro
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: Cinghiale]
      #133653 - 27/04/09 07:11 PM


Cinghiale

Aaaaaahhhh good, another person who found the 338WM lacking.

Even though i HAVE to use it on occasion, it is FAR from
my favourite calibre and I only use it as i have the experience to over come it's short comings.

Funny thing is, BOTH my MAJOR charges occured with the 338
in my hands !!!!

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260rem
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #133654 - 27/04/09 08:05 PM

No fear of a 338win, I did think about a 340wby but Blaser don't make a barrel in one as of yet, I probably will keep the 9.3 and work out some 320gn loads when I get a chance.

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260rem
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #133655 - 27/04/09 08:08 PM

I might buy some highland factory rounds to test the Barrel out on some small game 1st to see how I like it.
I will then load up some test rounds and if I like what it's doing then I will get some good brass for it.

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DarylS
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #133672 - 27/04/09 11:23 PM

It is doubtful the .340 will add anthing to the performance on buffalo of the .338 Win Mag. The same bullet going faster does not increase performance much and with some bullets, degrades performance. Going bigger will make a difference, even at the expense of velocity.

--------------------
Daryl


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500Nitro
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: DarylS]
      #133682 - 28/04/09 12:24 AM


Daryl,

I agree, the 340 won't add anything over a 338, especially compared to a 9.3 which kills so well IMHO.

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Matt_Graham
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #134169 - 02/05/09 04:26 AM

Quote:

I'm trying to decide on what barrel to get For my R93 for shooting Buff and Big pigs.
The Pigs are the biggest and nastiest that I have ever encountered with none under 100kg a lot 150kg+ and a habit of charging every time with ranges from 20m-250m, the Buff are solid and very alert with most shots either being 50m- running strait at you or 100+ running away from you.




(deleted)

How many buff have you shot anyhow?

Personally I wouldnt give you two pinches of shit for a R93 anyhow..... just my opinion though.

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Edited by NitroX (04/05/09 02:38 PM)

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ozhunter
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #134187 - 02/05/09 08:52 AM

Matt, Tell us what you really think.

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260rem
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: ozhunter]
      #134395 - 04/05/09 01:04 PM

Quote:

Matt, Tell us what you really think.



Thats most likely not what he thinks and who could have a problem with a Blaser?

(deleted)

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Edited by NitroX (04/05/09 02:39 PM)

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500grains
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #134399 - 04/05/09 01:25 PM

Quote:

I'm trying to decide on what barrel to get For my R93 for shooting Buff and Big pigs.




9.3 x 62.

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kamilaroi
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500grains]
      #134411 - 04/05/09 01:55 PM

^^ +1.

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9.3x57
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500grains]
      #134413 - 04/05/09 01:57 PM

Quote:

9.3 x 62.



The obvious and self-evident answer to all ballistic inquiries!!

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ozhunter
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134420 - 04/05/09 02:30 PM

I can't think of a reason to get another barrel over the 9.3x62 other than as a stopping rifle in .400cal or more.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #134448 - 04/05/09 10:52 PM

Quote:

I have a 9.3X62 Barrel ATM but I have never used one before so I lack confidence in it's performance as it's not the most impressive round I do however have faith in the 375H&H thats rock solid


What will the .375 do that the 9.3x62 can't?
Longer doesn't mean better (at least for cartridges )
Either would be perfect for Buffalo, pigs, moose and the largest bears IMHO

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Matt_Graham
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 260rem]
      #134458 - 05/05/09 12:34 AM

Where does one find all of these 150kg+ plus pigs??? Sounds like a dream come true!!

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DuggaBoy
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: ozhunter]
      #134459 - 05/05/09 12:41 AM

Well from Blasers site it appears your "big" choices for the R93 are 9.3x62,9.3x64, .375H&H and .416Rem
Having owned and used all 4 calibres.

At 50 to 75 yds don't see much difference in the dying, stretch that to 200 , the X64 and the H&H still seem pretty equivalent, with the X62 and the .416 dropping off.(Again, this is with good shot placement.

With "poor" shot placement the .416 (@ short yardage) seems to have a slight added "pop" with its 5000+ ft/lbs.and larger frontal area even though the energy of the X64 and H&H are right up there.

FWIW ,If I were truly "alone" out there, I'd carry get a DR,5000ft/lbs and up,and I own two Blasers.

Sure, you can kill with a 7 Mauser or a 6.5X54 Mannlicher, its been proven, but it has been proven just as much, you can't reliably STOP with one.

Bigger= Better , generally, in stopping.

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500grains
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #134472 - 05/05/09 02:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

9.3 x 62.



The obvious and self-evident answer to all ballistic inquiries!!



Absolutely! In fact, 9.3 x 62 is the solution to many of life's problems.

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404bearslayer
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Re: Deciding on an R93 calibre for Buff and big pigs. [Re: 500grains]
      #135934 - 22/05/09 01:49 PM

A little comment on the R 93 from Germany, where this gun comes from and is still common:

Many people (including myself) have sold their R 93s as there are quite a lot of cases where people have lost their right eye shooting it, mostly with magnum calibers. When this gun fails, the receiver goes straight into the shooters head. The reason appears to be that gas from a ruptured case can squeeze the collar open that holds the bolt head. Once that happens, there is nothing to hold the receiver back anymore. I would not recommend shooting big calibers in that gun. Statistically speaking, the chance for a failure is small, but if a failure happens you're toast 100 % - which cannot be said of traditional designs.

Over here, it is a common joke among many hunters that putting a .300 Whetherby barrel on a R 93 is an indication of an imminent suicide attempt. We have to take hunter education coursees here - even our teachers warned us about this gun. Blaser saw it coming, bought the Mauser brand and came out with the Mauser 03, basically the antithesis of their R 93 - also a multi-barrel system, but SAFE. This is now among the most popular guns here. I recommend to switch to that model if you want to shoot big bores. I did the same, it the most precise hunting gun I ever owned, and I do not have to worry about my eyesight.

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