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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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grandveneur
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Mountain rifle
      #130795 - 30/03/09 12:49 AM

The idea is from Tophet1! Your opinion about a good cartridge for hunting heavy mountain game?

Edited by grandveneur (30/03/09 12:50 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: grandveneur]
      #130797 - 30/03/09 12:59 AM

What do you mean by "heavy mountain game"?

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grandveneur
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: 9.3x57]
      #130799 - 30/03/09 01:01 AM

Ibex,Marco polo,Argali and Maral's!

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peter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: grandveneur]
      #130819 - 30/03/09 01:53 AM

this is not my area, but wouldent one of the 338 magnum's be the best choise ?

peter

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grandveneur
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: peter]
      #130821 - 30/03/09 01:56 AM

The .338 are, in my opinion, a very good choice! I use a 340WM for hunting in central Asia!

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DarylS
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: grandveneur]
      #130822 - 30/03/09 02:10 AM

Here's a mountain rifle. 14 bore - sight leaves to 300 meters.


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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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grandveneur
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #130824 - 30/03/09 02:13 AM

We know, use and like this rifle's in your countrie's too! In my opinion a little bit marginal for the modern mountain hunter!

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Ripp
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: peter]
      #130826 - 30/03/09 02:17 AM

Quote:

this is not my area, but wouldent one of the 338 magnum's be the best choise ?

peter



Agree, think the .338 of one configuration or another is very good--I have been using a .338 Ultra-mag--very impressed with its ballistics...but, If I were to go anywhere for those would probably still reach for my HS in 300 Ultra-mag...shoots very, very well...not much, IMHO, for recoil...and is plenty of power for any mountain game out there--have dropped eland, hippo, zebra, croc, elk, bear,waterbuck , etc all with one shot kills...so leads me to believe, plenty of power...

Ripp

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: grandveneur]
      #130828 - 30/03/09 02:18 AM

Quote:

Ibex,Marco polo,Argali and Maral's!


Its all relative, but there is a marked difference in size between the sheep/goats and a maral!
My vote would be for something like a 6.5x284 if you don't mind dumping barrels every 750 shots or a 6.5RSAUM or 270WSM

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grandveneur
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #130829 - 30/03/09 02:21 AM

300ULM and heavy bullet's, may be! I had bad experience on Maral at long range with the 180gr. bullet! I prefere the 250gr. bullet caliber .338!

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grandveneur
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #130831 - 30/03/09 02:24 AM

6,5-284 is may be sufficient for Ibex! But at long range, and with a lot of wind, heaver bullet's are better!

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: grandveneur]
      #130848 - 30/03/09 02:57 AM

Thats not necessarily true - more accurately, high BC is better. Of course high BC heavy bullets may give better downrange energy if you can launch them fast enough to begin with...

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Ripp
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #130853 - 30/03/09 04:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Ibex,Marco polo,Argali and Maral's!


Its all relative, but there is a marked difference in size between the sheep/goats and a maral!
My vote would be for something like a 6.5x284 if you don't mind dumping barrels every 750 shots or a 6.5RSAUM or 270WSM




JabaliHunter,

Have you used the 6.5RSAUM much?? If so, what have your results been..

Just read an article recently on a 6.5/280Ackley Improved...the article was very informative in regards to loads and other info...personally think the calibers in 6.5 are awesome...as you alluded to ..high BC and SD...great for long range work...plus easly to load for now that Norma is issuing 280Ackley brass---

Have a outfitter friend with a camp in northern British Columbia--hunts a lot of sheep as well as guides...he lovers is 6.5..although not sure what flavor he is currently using...

Ripp

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Caprivi
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #130867 - 30/03/09 07:12 AM

I am not too terribly old, but seem to remember reading somewhere in my youth (30-35yrs ago) that again I think I remember James Mellon or maybe Bert Klineberger, shot the first Ovis Poli taken in the modern era with a .270win. If it was Bert it would have been a 7mm. But then again a Alaskan Outfitter friend just in the last year or so used a favorite "travel" .375 H&H. Neither would qualify as a flat shooting heavy hitter.

But back to the question, I think most any medium will work as none of the game mentioned is "heavy". Maral may go 500lbs, no Ibex or Ovis will be more than that if 400. Seems to me from what I have learned about the modern technique ( or lack there of) is that on Ovis Poli, you will engine up on your prey in a Uaz and when with in a half mile the "guides" will "encourage" you to start shooting. When you are 30,000us+ into the hunt well then a big hunking high velocity 33 with lots of scope seems to be in vogue.

This same question is posed often about Gemsbok and Mountain Nyala. Both "heavy" and both "Long Range". True being thou that the best trophies of yesteryear of both where taken with quite common , .303 .30'06, 8mm, catridges.


JMNTBHO.

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To live life as it is handed to me from God

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VonGruff
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: Caprivi]
      #130872 - 30/03/09 08:58 AM

On ya Caprivi. There has been so much written in the last few years and it is getting worse about long range hunting which is not hunting at all, It is sniping. As Caprive and a couple on the parent thread have said the calibers that have always worked will always work when used by HUNTERS. I am not against a long shot but when that is the criteria with which a cartridge is judged I think something is lost from the hunting precess. Just my opinion though.

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Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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bwananelson
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: VonGruff]
      #130878 - 30/03/09 10:47 AM

how much time behind a trigger does it take to be a good long ranger shooter only about 10% of hunters fit that class.i like shooting long but i can get close damn close to. i have shot deer a mere feet from the muzzle.no big deal.and thats on the ground not the blind 50 feet in the air

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John303
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: bwananelson]
      #130881 - 30/03/09 12:16 PM

Long range, heavier bullets - I'm no expert but I would consider the .300 H&H / .300 Weatherby. --- John 303.

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Caprivi
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: bwananelson]
      #130882 - 30/03/09 12:23 PM

Certainly not to honk my own horn or to point fingers at anyone else, but few things piss me more than supposed "Long Range HUNTING". No such thing. Lots of Long Range shooting and killing but very little hunting takes place. Shot placement and game recovery go down the tubes much past 300-400yds. I have guided long enough to not like any of it. I am with Bwana, I have shot Pronghorn with a open sighted 357 revolver at FEET from the muzzle. It is called hunting for a reason.



What ever go for it, it would be pretty dull and the gun industry pretty stale if we where all smart enough to use a sensible light, a .30 and a light heavy for all of our Hunting.

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ozhunter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: Caprivi]
      #130903 - 30/03/09 05:51 PM

A 300Mag, be it a H&H, Win or Weatherby.

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tophet1
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: ozhunter]
      #130914 - 30/03/09 08:45 PM

As I know nothing about mountain hunting, maybe the european hunters here can help with this question. Wasn't the 6.5x68 developed for mountain hunting ? I assume with RWS 127's it would be perfect ?

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ozhunter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: tophet1]
      #130987 - 31/03/09 09:35 PM

Quote:

Wasn't the 6.5x68 developed for mountain hunting ? I assume with RWS 127's it would be perfect ?


For light to medium game on up to Thar and Red Deer, Yes.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #130992 - 31/03/09 10:12 PM

Ripp - I was kind of thinking aloud on the 6.5 RSAUM. My experience of hunting rifles in this kind of calibre is limited to the .25-06, .270, 270WSM, 6.5-06 and 6.5x55. I have also shot the 6.5x284 as a target round and recently the 6.5x47Lapua. My experience has me convinced that the 6.5x47 would be more than sufficient for all deer stalking in the UK from muntjac and Chinese Water deer, roe, fallow as well as sika and reds. It is an optimised 300CISM target calibre (sort of an elongated 6mmBR or a shortened .260) and according to David Tubb is an ideal 600m calibre. I reckon it would be an ideal chamois round too. It doesn't do anything a 6.5x55 can't in hunting terms, but does offer a shorter more efficient case optimised for medium range target accuracy. However, for retained energy at 300 to 500 yards for a mountain hunting round, I think the 6.5RSAUM could be ideal. Norma is making (excellent) .300RSAUM brass that can be necked down and the case has a longer neck for the longer high BC bullets and reduced throat erosion than the WSM cases. I reckon this would give it the edge over the .270WSM. I plan to try it out anyway!

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rscott
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #130997 - 31/03/09 10:50 PM

afraid i SOL as far as long range mountain hunting is concerned!
all i have in the safe less than 9.3mm is a 270 with a 1.5X6 scope and an FAL. just have to try and make due.
were i planning a sheep hunt in asia, or any where else, i would be more concerned about my fitness than ballistics, trajectories, or wether the 270 was suitable.
were i considering buying a new weapon for that, seems one of the 300's would be an excellent choice.

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: rscott]
      #130998 - 31/03/09 11:11 PM

You aren't wrong! There's no flies on the 270 - it is more than suitable.

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Ripp
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #131007 - 01/04/09 12:53 AM

Quote:

Ripp - I was kind of thinking aloud on the 6.5 RSAUM. My experience of hunting rifles in this kind of calibre is limited to the .25-06, .270, 270WSM, 6.5-06 and 6.5x55. I have also shot the 6.5x284 as a target round and recently the 6.5x47Lapua. My experience has me convinced that the 6.5x47 would be more than sufficient for all deer stalking in the UK from muntjac and Chinese Water deer, roe, fallow as well as sika and reds. It is an optimised 300CISM target calibre (sort of an elongated 6mmBR or a shortened .260) and according to David Tubb is an ideal 600m calibre. I reckon it would be an ideal chamois round too. It doesn't do anything a 6.5x55 can't in hunting terms, but does offer a shorter more efficient case optimised for medium range target accuracy. However, for retained energy at 300 to 500 yards for a mountain hunting round, I think the 6.5RSAUM could be ideal. Norma is making (excellent) .300RSAUM brass that can be necked down and the case has a longer neck for the longer high BC bullets and reduced throat erosion than the WSM cases. I reckon this would give it the edge over the .270WSM. I plan to try it out anyway!



A friend of mine at one of the local gun shops has had a rifle made in that caliber--talked to him over the weekend..he is very pleased with the results thus far--if you want I will get some loads from him and forward them to you..He states it is devastating on the game he has taken thus far and is a very accurate round.

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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André
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: Ripp]
      #131016 - 01/04/09 01:37 AM

Until August 2007, the closest experience I had with mountain hunting was 5-6 trips to the Scottish Highlands for Red stag stalking . Not true mountains but still physically demanding + medium/heavy game at 150-300 m range with no cover to use and get closer to the game. I used the 7x64 and .300 Win Mag on these trips and came to hold the latter in high esteem.






Then in August 2007, I got the opportunity to hunt for Chamois in the Tyrolian Alps. That was it, true mountain hunting and a difficult quarry. It was physically exhausting (a good thing I spent a few months working on my condition) and I was presented with one fast shot at a moving big buck. The .300 Win did a splendid job as expected and voilà :


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André
---------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.

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rscott
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: André]
      #131021 - 01/04/09 02:03 AM

those Scottish Highlands look like true mountains to me! nice photo's and looks like very challenging stalking!

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André
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: rscott]
      #131039 - 01/04/09 04:15 AM

In Blair Atholl, the Scottish estate where I stalked stags, the low mountains/high hills top off at 1200 m (4.000 ft). OTOH, the Alps near Innsbrück, where I hunted Chamois peak out at 3000 m (10.000 ft). Here's a panorama view of the "Gnadenwald" I picked up at the hotel ( = red circle, down in the valley). The arrow shows where I shot the Chamois. The city in the background (14 km) is Innsbrück, the river is the Inn.


--------------------
André
---------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: André]
      #131091 - 01/04/09 04:55 PM

Andre

Thanks for posting. I know when visiting Innsbruck, I looked with longing at those same mountain slopes.

Well done on the Scottish stags as well.

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John aka NitroX

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ozhunter
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: André]
      #131114 - 01/04/09 07:43 PM

Quote:






When I was a youngster I spent time in possibly the same spot watching Chamois with my Poro Prism Swarovski's, walking down to the Guesthouse at midnight.
Those washed out gully's below where you shot yours look familiar.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: ozhunter]
      #131118 - 01/04/09 08:10 PM

Quote:

A 300Mag, be it a H&H, Win or Weatherby.




First time I have seen that photo. Wow.

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John aka NitroX

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AdamTayler
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: grandveneur]
      #131565 - 06/04/09 02:33 AM

6.5 to .30 in a light rifle that you can shoot accurately.

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It's the journey, not the destination.

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DarylS
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Re: Mountain rifle [Re: AdamTayler]
      #131581 - 06/04/09 09:39 AM

Quote:

6.5 to .30 in a light rifle that you can shoot accurately.




Absolutely, Adam. I would add .270,.280, Improved's + '06 or '06IMP to the equation. Accuracy is the main criteria - too many hunters I feel, think they've got a terrific long range rifle by the stats pulbished by companies making money off the latest largest calibre, but so few have any experience shooting long range, let alone killing game at long range.

Stalking, crawling, to within 300 meters of a good Stag across the heather is hunting, calling in oose or elk to spitting distant is hunting however shooting from one range to another is shooting, not hunting - in my opinion.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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