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Charles
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Loc: Texas

Boddington on the .35 Whelen
#108693 - 01/07/08 11:42 PM

There has been some discussion on this caliber, so I thought I would post what Boddington said in his Safari Rifles. " I have used the rifle on moose, elk, black bear, and wild boar, and it's one of the surest killers I've ever used. Its 250 grain bullet has the weight and the frontal area, and it does wonderful things without undue recoil and muzzle blast. Out to 200 yards, I would rate it the equal of the .338 Winchester Magnum. It would not be a good choice in open country, but in the mixed thornbush common in much of Africa, it would be ideal."
" Within a few months of its introduction, Remington took some 25,000 orders for .35 Whelen rifles, far more than they were prepared to produce! "
P 46-47. Other interesting comments there.

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DarylS
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Charles]
#108694 - 02/07/08 12:34 AM

Cool! - my sentiments exactly, it is a great ctg. Incidently, with 300gr. bullets it about duplicates a quite popular medium bore - the .333 Jeffery.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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albertan
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#108731 - 02/07/08 11:05 AM

I was the one who posted on Boddington and the .35 Whelen earlier. While I do think the old .35 is a cool caliber it is not, nor will it ever be, the equal to the .338 Winchester at 5 yards or 325 yards. Comparing 250 grain bullets @ 2650 fps versus 2350 fps. A sectional density of .313 versus .279. The .338 will out penetrate it everytime. The .338 will out-penetrate the great .375 H&H as well. That is one of the big reasons for the .338 Winchester's success.

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9.3x57
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: albertan]
#108732 - 02/07/08 11:19 AM

Quote:

The .338 will out penetrate it everytime. The .338 will out-penetrate the great .375 H&H as well.

I have shot too many bullets/cartridges head-to-head in test media to make such a statement.

Bullet construction, velocity and caliber all come together to make a bullet penetrate. Just because a .338 bullet has the spec's you identify does not mean it will outpenetrate a .358 bullet, truth be told.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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bigmaxx
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
#108737 - 02/07/08 12:29 PM

I shoot both the .338 winchester magnum and the .375 ruger. When it comes to things that bite, stomp, gore and such, I will be sticking with the .375 ruger. I have conducted some very informal tests and arrived at that conclusion. I know that ballistics seem comparable, but in my opinion the .375 caliber, whether ruger, or H&H, or one of the other obscure chamberings is a superior dangerous game caliber. The whelen is a caliber I have always been interested in. If I ever find a rifle I like in that caliber I might be tempted to give it a whirl.

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One day at a time...

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DarylS
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: albertan]
#108778 - 03/07/08 01:20 AM

Quote:

I was the one who posted on Boddington and the .35 Whelen earlier. While I do think the old .35 is a cool caliber it is not, nor will it ever be, the equal to the .338 Winchester at 5 yards or 325 yards. Comparing 250 grain bullets @ 2650 fps versus 2350 fps. A sectional density of .313 versus .279. The .338 will out penetrate it everytime. The .338 will out-penetrate the great .375 H&H as well. That is one of the big reasons for the .338 Winchester's success.

: Albertan has a point - based totally on SD and velocity. paper specs rarely produce results in accordance with the numbers, as 9.3x57 found out in his test media.
: 9.3x57 has also found out the 300gr. .375 swaged to .368" and fired from a 9.3 rifle will out penetrate any non FMJ .338 mag load out there and just recently published those results on another forum. Paper specs don't tell the whole story- hardly ever do.
: I have a lot of respect for the 8x68 and similar .338 mag, .35 Whelen, .375 Whelen Imp, 9.3's and .375's. Out to 300 yards on moose, there is little difference in killing power as they'll all drop the moose close to impact if used properly. They'll all leave the bullet underneath the hide on the off side if you want, or exit if that's what you want. One merely picks the appropriate bullet.
: Arguing which round is better based on a couple numbers of sectional density in a day when modern premium bullet designs have negated that system's validity, is non-productive and in error.
: The .35 Whelens I am familiar with run 2,250fps with 300gr. and 2,600fps with 250's. My .375Imp Whelen gets 2,470 with 300's and 2,675fps with 270's. They give up little or nothing to factory .338 Win. Mags. in paper ballistics, but paper ballistics are only the start of the equation today, not the answer. The results are what matters.
; Famed writer and African Hunter, the late Finn Aagard once wrote he saw little if no difference on the African game he shot between the 9.3x62 and the .375H&H. He was using 286gr. at 2,340fps in the 9.3 and 270gr. at 2,700fps or 300gr. at 2,560fps in the .375H&H. On paper, they produce a trememdous difference, but the animals he shot couldn't read.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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albertan
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#109085 - 06/07/08 10:49 AM

I would like to know what pressures you are running in order to get 2600 fps with a 250 grain bullet out of a .35 Whelen. I do not believe it. I have fired a few Whelens and they came nowhere near 2600 fps and at 300 yards their trajectory was shaped like a rainbow. It is a 250 yard gun.

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Con
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: albertan]
#109112 - 06/07/08 10:59 PM

albertan,
The pressures are probably inline with what can be done in a modern bolt actioned rifle. When Remington introduced the 35Whelen they must have been mindful of older Springfields, M95's etc chambered for the 35Whelen in the 'good ole days' and loaded accordingly. Factory ballistics can certainly be bettered.
Cheers...
Con

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Nakihunter
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#109152 - 07/07/08 12:02 PM

There was a recent post (by Bob Fawcet?)on the 358 (Handloader article by John Barsness) where the author got 2450fps out of a 358 Win with Tac powder. That is brand new data. About 10 years ago the going wisdom was a max 2250 out of that caliber. The same seems to be case with the Whelan - but you must use the right powder & bullet combination. I believe that the 2600fps with 250 gr bullet is the exceptional max & not a given standard. My 9.3X62 Simson does 2550fps with 250 gr bullets but at low pressures with little case stretching. Barsness drives the same bullet at 2700fps out of his new CZ rifle.

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Plains99
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Nakihunter]
#109197 - 08/07/08 12:58 AM

I think you boys overseas would be better off any day with a 9.3X62 than a .35 Whelen. Simply no advantage to it. I agree that the .338 is a better round than the .35 Whelen but again, I consider the 9.3X62 to be a better all around performer than either. My 2 Cents.

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DarylS
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Plains99]
#109201 - 08/07/08 01:30 AM

The 9.3x62 is a 78gr. water capacity case as I measured on 2 fired Sako cases. The Improved .375/06 I shoot with the shoulder moved .030" forward has identical capacity to the 9.3. If you want to compare the two Whelen rounds with the 9.3x62, they must also be on improved cases to make the comparrison fair.
; Note much data has the .338Whelen or .338/06 if you want to call it, running consistantly 100fps ahead of most data for the .35 Whelen. Ever wonder why? The capacities are identical, which means if they are loaded to the same pressure with same weight bullets, the .35 calibre will produce higher velocities, not lower. That's just plain common sense in ballistics.
: With the bullets available today, the .35 is a good 300 yard Moose, Elk and Bear gun, just as the .338/06 is and same with the 9.3x62. I do not believe anyone should be shooting our valuable big game at longer ranges than that and I don't give a crap what calibre you are shooting. Too many things can go wrong just as or fractions of a second before the trigger breaks. Even though the 9.3x62 has greater capacity & therefore the ability to shoot same weight bullets faster, or heavier bullets just as fast, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between any of them on the same game animal.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Will
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#109699 - 14/07/08 09:47 AM

Gee willikers (is that how you spell that?) Bat Man, the 35 Whelen is just super duper. And so much better and worse than every other cartridge!!

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Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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Charles
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Charles]
#109700 - 14/07/08 10:01 AM

Can the 35 Whelen do 2600??? That is the question. The Barnes reloading book lists 2586 for it which translates into just over 3700 pounds of muzzle energy. Should be close enough to 2600 fps for most.

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Ripp
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Charles]
#109729 - 14/07/08 11:02 PM

I read with great interest the comments on the various calibers..and agree with the comments that there are too many NEW powders and bullets to make any broad based assessment on one calibers superiority over another based on muzzle energy and velocity. Personally, I feel muzzle energy does not give a very accurate read on the calibers ability nor its performance..If that was true, then a 22.250 is just as capable as a 30-06 for larger game based on muzzle enery..(merely an example)..

I was once a believer that speed and muzzle energy were key components to success...not so anymore..don't get me wrong..with the right bullets and conditions and depending on the game I hunt..I still reach for my custom rifles in .257 Weatherby or 300 Ultra-mag...as they are very flat shooter and if I can do my part...will take game past 400 yards easily...however, with all the muzzle energy the 300 Ultra produces ...it is a pretty small bullet when you have something like a hippo of elephant coming at you at less than 20 paces...even though it has about the same or more enery than a .375--as BigMax stated above,,,if me the .375....as has been very apparent to me on numerous species shot...frontal surface area and bullet construction are hugely more important than speed...

Just my opinion...

Ripp

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Plains99
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Ripp]
#112973 - 30/08/08 01:25 AM

I know this thread is pretty much dead but I thought I'd add my .02$. I can't see the appeal of the .35 Whelen compared to the 9.3X62 and now the development of the .376 Steyr and the .375 Ruger. I've hunted with them all and the Whelen has very little to offer in comparison.

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9.3x57
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Plains99]
#112992 - 30/08/08 11:09 AM

Here's a thought.

Since the bullet is the thing, a guy can get a simple set of drawing dies from Lee Precision and shoot 9.3 bullets in a .35 Whelen, reducing them from .366 to .358, and also of course still shoot .358's.

Moving up a caliber, I do this with my 9.3x57's, shooting .375 bullets that are resized to fit my 9.3's as well as 9.3's of course.

Case capacity is so similar that what the 9.3x62 can do the Whelen should be able to do, or nearly so, with small enough differences to be hardly noticed by game.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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shinz
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
#112996 - 30/08/08 03:06 PM

Poor old 35 Whelen eh!, you either love it or hate it, but I would say the only real difference between this & the 9.3x62 in the field is the factory loads it comes in. This is not to denigrate the 9.3 in anyway at all before its adherents leap down my throat, but a 35W with such bullets as 280gr Swift A-frames & 310 grain Woodleighs at respectable velocities is going to cut the mustard which ever way you look at it. Double Tap load the Woodleighs SN & FMJ (at special request) to 2300fps, at this speed & with that wonderful SD they would penetrate beautifully methinks.

Hell they even look the part.
Steve

Edited by shinz (31/08/08 10:35 AM)

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: shinz]
#113000 - 30/08/08 08:53 PM

Why bother with any of them when you can get a .375 H&H (rimmed or rimless) ? best, Mike

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hoppdoc
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Mike_Bailey]
#113004 - 30/08/08 09:36 PM

The Whelen kills, the 9.3x62 kills, both on standard length actions.

I would now lean toward the 9.3 for longer shots(never owned one)but the .358 Swift in a Whelen will kill 'em with authority if you do your part!!

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9.3x57
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: hoppdoc]
#113027 - 31/08/08 03:30 AM

Remember, if having fun is any part of this discussion, and plinking is, too, you can shoot .38 bullets in your .35 Whelen, and plink with cheap bulk Remington 200's.

AND shoot resized 9.3's.

I'm a 9.3 fan but the more I think about it, especially since getting this resizing thing down, the .35 Whelen looks pretty darn convincing.

...unless a fellow is taking it to Africa for DG where the 9.3x62 is legal minimum.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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BFaucett
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
#113076 - 31/08/08 12:37 PM

I'm a big fan of medium bore rifles in general. I have a .338 Win Mag and a .375 H&H but as I get older (I'm 54) I find myself becoming a little more sensitive to recoil and to rifle weight. I've really come to enjoy what I call the mild-mannered medium bores such as the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62.

I haven't hunted anything with the .35 Whelen yet but I have done some plains game hunting with my 9.3x62. My 9.3x62 is a CZ 550. I currently own two rifles in .35 Whelen. One is a Rem 700 CDL and the other is a recently acquired (this week) new stainless Ruger M77 Hawkeye. Rather than try to decide between the .35 Whelen and the 9.3x62, I simply chose to own both!

Both are classic cartridges.

Personally, I think the .35 Whelen is closer ballistically to the 9x57 Mauser and .350 Rigby Magnum than to the 9.3x62 but that's not a bad place to be at all! Both the 9x57 Mauser and .350 Rigby Magnum had fine reputations in Africa as general purpose medium bores.

Cartridges such as the .338-06, .35 Whelen, and 9.3x62 may not have what are considered today to be "flashy" ballistics, but they all seem to get the job done without a lot of recoil and muzzle blast.

A ballistics table that may be of interest:

Cheers!

-Bob F.

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Con
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
#113175 - 01/09/08 10:35 AM

I'm not as 'old' as Bob F but I agree with his sentiments on the mild mediums. My 350RemMag is about the limit of where I can shoot effectively with nil practice ... I love my 458AccRel (500gr at 2230fps) ... but my 35's are easier to shoot overall.

The ability to use a range of pistol projectiles is important to me, hence why I prefer the 35s to the 9.3s. I suppose in the final analysis though, any cartridge moving a projectile of around 250gr at around 2400fps is going to do a pretty bang-up job on 95% of the worlds game animals.

Now ... does anyone have the case dimensions of the 350G&H magnum ... seems like a nice cartridge in need of resurrection.
Cheers...
Con

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BFaucett
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#113218 - 01/09/08 03:01 PM

Quote:

Now ... does anyone have the case dimensions of the 350G&H magnum ... seems like a nice cartridge in need of resurrection.
Cheers...
Con

I've never been able to locate a cartridge drawing of the .350 G&H Mag but I've read that it was simply the .375 H&H Mag case necked down to .358" caliber. I'm not sure if any other dimensions were changed.

"In 1925 Griffin & Howe introduced its .35 Griffin & Howe Magnum caliber, which was based on the Holland & Holland .375 case."
from: http://www.griffinhowe.com/history.cfm

-Bob F.

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Con
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
#113265 - 02/09/08 12:30 AM

Bob F,
It's the 'based on' that worries me. I believe there may actually be two 350 G&H Magnums ... an improved version the dimensions of which are given in Ken Howell's 'Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges' and erronously named as the 350 G&H Magnum (dimensions like a 35/8mmRemMag ... I have heard of a 350 G&H Magnum Improved) plus the 350 G&H Magnum which is indeed simply a 375H&H necked down to 35cal ... these dimensions being pretty much what Cartridges of the World provide. The 400Whelen was also 'based on the 30/06' but the shoulder diameter was the fly in the ointment to anyone that simply opened up a 30/06 to 0.411". Not sure whether the 350 G&H also had subtle differences, but she'd be a sweet heart feeding and surely worthy of a resurrection to a 35cal nut like me.
Cheers...
Con

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BFaucett
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Loc: Houston, Texas

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#113269 - 02/09/08 02:19 AM

Con,

Here's a scan, in pdf format, of an article by Ken Waters about the .350 G&H Magnum. The original date of the article isn't stated.

http://www.bunduki.com/bob/articles/350GHMag.pdf

In the article, he states that it is simply the .375 H&H necked down. Unfortunately, there is not a cartridge drawing in the article. Anyway, I thought you might enjoy the article.

Also, here's a scan of a page from my reprint/copy of the Griffin & Howe 1930 catalog showing the .350 G&H Mag:

http://www.bunduki.com/bob/articles/350GHMag-GH1930catalog.jpg

Quality Cartridge here in the States makes brass and ammo for the .350 G&H Mag:

http://www.qual-cart.com/350_G-H_Mag.htm

Cheers!
-Bob F.

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9.3x57
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#113275 - 02/09/08 03:50 AM

Quote:

but she'd be a sweet heart feeding

I am glad to hear somebody else has a fondness for the advantageous, sloping taper of the .375 H&H.

And looks!

I have always prefered the looks of the long taper of the H&H case over the short dumpy garbage can {ash bin...} shape of the current short mags.

A .375 H&H necked to .35 would be a winner, too, NOT Sundra-ized but rather slopie just like the original H&H.

If I ever do get a .35 Whelen, it will have a quick twist for long, heavy bullets. The Remington slow twist rifles never have appealed to me much and tho I am not aware of any 300 grain .358 bullets out there, there are lots of 286 grain 9.3's and even heavier that could be sized down for use in the .35, Whelen or G&H.

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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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BFaucett
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
#113276 - 02/09/08 04:02 AM

Just FYI: Woodleigh makes a 310 gr soft point round nose and a 310 gr FMJ (steel jacketed solid) in .358" caliber. (They're fairly expensive on this side of the big pond, however!)

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/

-Bob F.

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Huvius
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
#113280 - 02/09/08 05:12 AM

I have two boxes of .350G&H - one is unopened!

For comparison, I lined up a .375H&H, .350G&H, and a .300H&H.
All are the same length, base diameter, case diameter, etc.
The only difference I could see is the belt width was a little greater on the .350 and the .300 compared to the .375 - perhaps a difference in manufacturer - the .300 is Winchester, and the .375 is Western.

Add to this a .333G&H Super Mag. and a .275H&H and you have quite a versatile group from the same parent case.

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BFaucett
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113304 - 02/09/08 11:11 AM

Huvius,

Thanks for sharing those photos!! Those are the first photographs of actual .350 G&H Mag cartridges that I have ever seen.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

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shinz
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113312 - 02/09/08 12:52 PM

Huvius, very nice, in fact extraordinarily nice, I've always considered myself fortunate to have one in my collection, & then you come along with that lot.

What headstamp do yours have on them? Mine has no headstamp but from the pics a similar bullet. Many thanks.
Steve

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Huvius
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: shinz]
#113414 - 03/09/08 08:51 AM

They are headstamped "Western 350 G&H Magnum"
You can see on the box that they use Western bullets as well.
Funny thing, I had these out for consideration at the collector show here in Denver, and the highest offer I had was $40 - I declined...

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Con
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113424 - 03/09/08 11:24 AM

Huvius,
If a 35cal expander was run through 300H&H brass ... will that essentially get you a 350 G&H Magnum case? If so ... chambering becomes a 300H&H reamer followed by 35cal neck/throaters ... dies are easy to arrange by opening a 300H&H set ... hmmmmmm!!
Cheers...
Con

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shinz
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113425 - 03/09/08 11:35 AM

Quote:

They are headstamped "Western 350 G&H Magnum"
You can see on the box that they use Western bullets as well.
Funny thing, I had these out for consideration at the collector show here in Denver, and the highest offer I had was $40 - I declined...

Ouch, I guess there's no accounting for taste then. Could be that they didn't know them for what they were.

That sounds like the sort of show I might possibly have enjoyed but my funds manager (wife) would have hated me to have been to.

I'll just have to look for a head stamped one now that I've heard about them. Don't 'spose you'd have a pic of same would you?
Steve

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Huvius
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#113437 - 03/09/08 01:58 PM

Quote:

Huvius,
If a 35cal expander was run through 300H&H brass ... will that essentially get you a 350 G&H Magnum case? If so ... chambering becomes a 300H&H reamer followed by 35cal neck/throaters ... dies are easy to arrange by opening a 300H&H set ... hmmmmmm!!
Cheers...
Con

Seems that Western probably did make the 350G&H from 300H&H. I measured the rim thickness of fired cases and the 300H&H measured between .015" and .016" The 350G&H measured between .012" and .013".
I suspect the brass thins out as it is resized (stretched).
Sounds reasonable that you could resize to .35 cal. and fireform the brass to your chamber.
You will notice that the shoulder on the .350 is even a little further up than the .375, so you could probably neck down and trim .375 brass as well and then blow out the shoulder in the same way.

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Squarebridge
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Reged: 21/08/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Tennessee

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#114055 - 09/09/08 10:52 PM

I am a huge 350 G&H nut too. I own an original Western round, and it is my talisman against vampires and IRS agents. I intend to build a rifle for it, possibly on a sporterized P17 Enfield action just because you never see those any more and there were some really sexy sporters built on that action back in the day. To me, the 350 G&H is the ultimate American big game round. I probably give it far more credit than it deserves, but I can't imagine anything nicer. Developed by Americans, with an good American name (based on a British case...but we don't need to mention that!)

The original loading was, in the references I've found, .357, not .358. The round I own has a sloping shape to the bullet which makes it difficult to mike, and it doesn't matter anyway, but I thought I'd throw that out. When I get reamers and dies made I'll use the .358 dimension.

I suppose you send the cartridge (carefully) to a tool maker like Clymer's, who will make the reamers for you (one for the chamber, another for the reloading dies) and then have dies made, and then have a barrel short chambered, and go from there? Seems a logical process. Am I leaving anything out?

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DarylS
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Squarebridge]
#114073 - 10/09/08 02:38 AM

Squarebridge - usually, the chamber is cut first, then you make up at least 3 cases using whatever dies you need, then send 3 fully formed cases to a die maker. I suggest you not do this with CH4D as they would not match a chamber we had, but would only send a smaller bodied variation that was taken as standard many years ago. The shoulder of the "custom" dies sent was .006" undersize. They did not 'fix' their error when the dies were returned, yet charged again for the "repair". I will not deal with CH4D in the future.

To go at the chamber from the 'other' end, Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool and Gauge should be able to help. A google search will give his web site.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Squarebridge
.300 member

Reged: 21/08/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Tennessee

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#114086 - 10/09/08 07:17 AM

Thanks Daryl S.

I'm confused - how can I make up 3 cases and send them to a die maker, if I don't have dies to form the cases? I also am unclear on what "going from the other end" would entail. Sounds painful.

This is how I envisioned it (thinking just pure logic, with no real insight involved...

Send the original cartridge to a reamer maker. Tell them I want the new bullet to be .358 instead of the original .357, but everything else stays the same, and get the chamber and die reamers cut. I know the tolerances and dimensions will of course be different, but I figured they would know exactly how to size things so that THEIR die reamer cut dies to form cases to fit THEIR chamber reamer. Then send the reamer off to RCBS or whoever, and have loading and case forming dies made up. And have a barrel made.

Thanks very much for the input. I don't mean to be thick headed - this is my first rodeo and there is much I'm probably misunderstanding and much "cart before the horse"ing.

I don't mean to hijack this thread - my apologies. I'll be glad to start a new one if needed.

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Bramble
.375 member

Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Squarebridge]
#114087 - 10/09/08 07:41 AM

Squarebridge.

Sent it to the reamer maker (I use PTG) and get a 1st cut and finish reamer set. The 1st cut will then make the dies for the cartridge.

Regards

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Bramble]
#114091 - 10/09/08 08:06 AM

Squarebridge - you use dies from your dead die box to make up 3 or more cases, then fire them in the chamber - then send them to a die maker so fitted dies can be made for your chamber. This is usually cheaper than getting 2 reamers made and buying die blanks to make your dies with or having some smith make them for you with your reamers. If you go that route, the roughing reamer is used to make the FL die and the finnish reamer is used to make the seater. It is cheaper to buy one reamer, the finnish reamer, cut the chamber, cobble some cases to fireform, sent them off to a die maker to make the dies for you. Maybe $140.00 to $200.00 for the dies. If a Smith makes them from your 2 reamers, you'll be looking at many times that price. 1st of all, there's the extra $180.00 for the roughing reamer - then the smith's time and materials for the dies - probably 200 to several hundred $$. That makes the set of dies cost you $180.00 + 2 more - maybe more than that.

You don't need exactly correct dies to make ammo - thought you knew that.

For expample, I used a 6.5x68S reamer to cut the my idea of a 9.5x68 chamber in a .375 barrel - around 1988. I ran the 6.5x68S reamer in to the same shoulder length as the 8x68S chamber(different than the 6.5x68S). I bought a neck throater and cut the neck and throat. What I ended up with was a .375 barrel chamberd for a .375 on the 8x68S case, using a 6.5x68S reamer and a neck throater. I then made my brass for this 'custom' chamber using a .375" neck expander die on 6.5x68S and 8x68S brass, necking them up to take a .375" bullet. 3 fired cases were sent to Huntingtons die service and a set of 9.5x68 dies were produced from those first 3 fired cases. Until those dies arrived, 8x68S brass as well as .375H&H brass was used for this rifle. .375H&H brass needed the belt turned to .522", trimmed to proper case length, was loaded, fireformed and perfectly fitted brass resulted, ready for re-loading - all without having dies previously. While waiting for the dies to arrive, I bored a .358 Seater die to resize the fireformed cases and reloaded them using makeshift dies. By the time the 'real dies' arrived, the rifle had fired off more than 700 rounds. It's your choice.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Squarebridge
.300 member

Reged: 21/08/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Tennessee

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#114095 - 10/09/08 09:29 AM

Quote:

For expample, I used a 6.5x68S reamer to cut the my idea of a 9.5x68 chamber in a .375 barrel - around 1988. I ran the 6.5x68S reamer in to the same shoulder length as the 8x68S chamber(different than the 6.5x68S). I bought a neck throater and cut the neck and throat. What I ended up with was a .375 barrel chamberd for a .375 on the 8x68S case, using a 6.5x68S reamer and a neck throater. I then made my brass for this 'custom' chamber using a .375" neck expander die on 6.5x68S and 8x68S brass, necking them up to take a .375" bullet. 3 fired cases were sent to Huntingtons die service and a set of 9.5x68 dies were produced from those first 3 fired cases. Until those dies arrived, 8x68S brass as well as .375H&H brass was used for this rifle. .375H&H brass needed the belt turned to .522", trimmed to proper case length, was loaded, fireformed and perfectly fitted brass resulted, ready for re-loading - all without having dies previously. While waiting for the dies to arrive, I bored a .358 Seater die to resize the fireformed cases and reloaded them using makeshift dies. By the time the 'real dies' arrived, the rifle had fired off more than 700 rounds. It's your choice.

"First, you catch a rabbit..."

I obviously have a great deal to learn about this stuff.

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Con
.333 member

Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Squarebridge]
#114104 - 10/09/08 12:30 PM

squarebridge,
Do a google search for "Manson reamers", email them requesting a reamer drawing of the 350 G&H Magnum. If they haven't got one, email Clymer, PTG etc etc. Buy the finishing reamer (you dont need a rougher or headspace guages), and have a rifle chambered. Cobble together 3 rounds (I'd use 300H&H brass simply opened to 35cal with a 358Norma staring load and work upwards) and fire them to get x3 well fireformed cases. Send the 3 cases plus a reamer drawing to Hornady who will cut you a die set for around US$150 plus postage.

I'm doing a 35wildcat at the moment (verifying the reamer drawing at the moment), after which we'll have rifles built and follow the above process to get a set of custom dies.
Cheers...
Con

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gryphon
.450 member

Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
#114120 - 10/09/08 03:49 PM

Dont forget another 35 cal...the 358 Norma mag,its hot to trot on most things and out performs many others...

Maybe some one can post a few figures for me?us please?

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Con
.333 member

Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: gryphon]
#114125 - 10/09/08 09:46 PM

squarebridge,
I emailed Manson regarding the 350 G&H Magnum and also to confirm my 358CRG. Here's his response regarding the 350 G&H magnum, and its an interesting response.

"I've attached several prints of 35-cal Magnums for your reference, and a description of the 35 Magnums from the Speer #4 manual that covered wildcats popular at the time the manual was published. Reading the comments about 35-cal magnums, and comparing the different versions that have come down to us, it's apparent there was not just one chamber spec at the time. Chose the one you like and have at it!"

Manson's sent a few different reamer specs for what is a '350 G&H Magnum', which just goes to show that as wildcatters, we tread on the shoulders of great men that have gone before us. As gryphon notes, there's nothing a 350 G&H Magnum cant do that the 358Norma wont do ... and if you want serious horsepower ... the 358STA and 358RUM will do it in spades.
Cheers...
Con

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#114137 - 11/09/08 01:11 AM

My 358 Norma Mag was great on coyotes - 6 round capacity - 250gr. Spitzers at 2,900fps - what fun from prone position.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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IronBuck
.300 member

Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#122416 - 27/12/08 04:47 PM

I have 2 rifles chambered in 35 whelen. I love this caliber. It is my favorite for North American game. I have taken many deer & several balck bears with it. Some day my custom mauser in this caliber WILL follow me to Africa!

Here is my elk load: Easily good to 300+ yards.

250 Grain Nosler Partition/ RL 15/ Fed 210 primer

Indices Range
Range - yds. 0 100 200 300 400
Velocity - ft./sec. 2550 2357 2174 1999 1833
Energy - ft.-lbs. 3609 3085 2623 2218 1865
Path - in. -1.5 2.9 0.9 -8.4 -26.4
Drift - in. 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Time of flight - sec. 0.0 0.1 0.3 0.4 0.6

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Der_Jaeger
.375 member

Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: IronBuck]
#122431 - 27/12/08 09:29 PM

It's really a shame that the .358 Norma Magnum is not more popular than it is. The .350G&H, .350 Rigby, .358 Norma, and the .358 STA; all great cartridges.

--------------------

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#122445 - 28/12/08 02:01 AM

With just a bit of research, the .375 H&H with a 270 grain projectile at 2400 fps is ballisticlly identical to the .358 G&H with a 250 grain projectile at 2500 fps.

Not to take anything away from the .358 G&H, but I rather have a .35 Whelen and a .375 H&H.

For the record. I have a .35 Winchester, which is essentially a .35 Whelen flanged!

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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IronBuck
.300 member

Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122453 - 28/12/08 04:20 AM

Quote:

For the record. I have a .35 Winchester, which is essentially a .35 Whelen flanged!

A great old round. What rifle? Winchester model 95? I used to see 95s at gun shows in the early 90s at GREAT prices. Both 35 Winchesters & 405's. wish I had picked one up then. The prices are WAY up now.

For some reason I have always loved the 35 caliber. I have a MArlin 336 in 35 Remington. yu daughter uses this one more than me. As stated previously I have 2 35 whelens......they are my favorite. Easy to load & when they hit home game just DROPS. Bang/Flops are the norm. I want to build a mannlicher style full stock rifle in 358 winchester. With a 20" barrel. Would be a great woods gun. I just need to find a suitable left hand action. I'd love to find some more left hand zastava mausers. I have also toyed with the idea of a 358 Norms. I have an extra M70 in 300 win mag that would be the donor rifle for that one.

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: IronBuck]
#122455 - 28/12/08 05:06 AM

Holland and Holland round action top lever back-action hammer double rifle.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Der_Jaeger
.375 member

Reged: 09/10/08
Posts: 607
Loc: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122457 - 28/12/08 05:30 AM

Very nice pair of rifles!!!

But, ice with Whisky??

--------------------

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IronBuck
.300 member

Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#122460 - 28/12/08 05:55 AM

Very nice! First time I ever saw a double in 35 winchester. Do you have an idea when it was made?

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shinz
.300 member

Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122462 - 28/12/08 06:46 AM

Quote:

For the record. I have a .35 Winchester, which is essentially a .35 Whelen flanged!

or maybe that should be the .35 Whelen is essentially a rimless .35 Winchester,

given their respective dates of introduction.

I've felt for some time that the .35 WCF would make a lovely DR round, well able to do most of what the various British 350/360s can do but generally loaded with slightly lighter bullets of lower SD. Bonanza, what bullet weight is that beauty of yours regulated for?
Steve

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ChrisPer
.300 member

Reged: 12/05/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Australia

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#122505 - 28/12/08 09:47 PM

Clearly it takes all kinds. Very nice rifles!

Edited by ChrisPer (28/12/08 09:55 PM)

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: ChrisPer]
#122516 - 29/12/08 01:31 AM

This rifle started life as a .303 circa 1906. In or about 2003 it was re-bored and re-chambered by uber gunsmith Chris Labounty to .35 WCF. A practical solution to resurrect an old girl.

It was re-regulated for 250 Woodleigh grain RN ~ 2300 fps, but shoots 200 and 225 grain RN equally well.

I plan to take it on a "guided" deer hunt next year in my home state of SC. I'll report on it's lethality if I get one. I suspect it's a good killer.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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IronBuck
.300 member

Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 237
Loc: Pittsburgh PA, USA

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122519 - 29/12/08 02:03 AM

Those 250's would work GREAT in that rifle for black bear hunting here in Pennsylvania. We hunt bears by putting on organized drives. Action is always close! A double would be ideal.

I have always read that a shot out double was a lost cause. At least that is what Craig Boddington has said in his books. Was it expensive to have re-bored & re-regulated?

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: IronBuck]
#122527 - 29/12/08 03:42 AM

It was done before I owned it. I reckon it cost about $1500.00

I don't know much about this Boddington fellow, but almost and DR can be saved. Hell, you can get new barrels for about $10,000, or less.

A rifle can be re-regulated for about $300-500 in America.

It's been said here many times that bore condition affects value, but often they still shoot just fine.

My old 500/450 has "less than perfect" bores, but is still very accurate.

The great thing about Champlins is that they will let you shoot the rifle before buying.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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shinz
.300 member

Reged: 11/05/08
Posts: 135
Loc: New Zealand

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122534 - 29/12/08 06:39 AM

Quote:

This rifle started life as a .303 circa 1906. In or about 2003 it was re-bored and re-chambered by uber gunsmith Chris Labounty to .35 WCF. A practical solution to resurrect an old girl.

It was re-regulated for 250 Woodleigh grain RN ~ 2300 fps, but shoots 200 and 225 grain RN equally well.

I plan to take it on a "guided" deer hunt next year in my home state of SC. I'll report on it's lethality if I get one. I suspect it's a good killer.

That sounds entirely adequate to me, it would probably do on a plains game hunt in Africa if ranges weren't too extreme. 250gr at 2300 should have very reasonable authority. At least on par with the 358 Winchester & very little off the 35 Whelan. Nice. Many thanks.
Steve

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9.3x57
.450 member

Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5504
Loc: United States

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: shinz]
#122537 - 29/12/08 07:26 AM

Hard to imagine a better bear chaser. 250/2300 is perfect and the gun looks handy for following hounds.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark

Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122575 - 29/12/08 07:38 PM

Quote:

This rifle started life as a .303 circa 1906. In or about 2003 it was re-bored and re-chambered by uber gunsmith Chris Labounty to .35 WCF. A practical solution to resurrect an old girl.

It was re-regulated for 250 Woodleigh grain RN ~ 2300 fps, but shoots 200 and 225 grain RN equally well.

I plan to take it on a "guided" deer hunt next year in my home state of SC. I'll report on it's lethality if I get one. I suspect it's a good killer.

Nice rifles you have there indeed..Did you ever consider the 400/350 rigby, instead of the .35WCF?

Happy New Year.

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