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9.3x57
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#113275 - 02/09/08 03:50 AM

Quote:

but she'd be a sweet heart feeding

I am glad to hear somebody else has a fondness for the advantageous, sloping taper of the .375 H&H.

And looks!

I have always prefered the looks of the long taper of the H&H case over the short dumpy garbage can {ash bin...} shape of the current short mags.

A .375 H&H necked to .35 would be a winner, too, NOT Sundra-ized but rather slopie just like the original H&H.

If I ever do get a .35 Whelen, it will have a quick twist for long, heavy bullets. The Remington slow twist rifles never have appealed to me much and tho I am not aware of any 300 grain .358 bullets out there, there are lots of 286 grain 9.3's and even heavier that could be sized down for use in the .35, Whelen or G&H.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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BFaucett
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: 9.3x57]
#113276 - 02/09/08 04:02 AM

Just FYI: Woodleigh makes a 310 gr soft point round nose and a 310 gr FMJ (steel jacketed solid) in .358" caliber. (They're fairly expensive on this side of the big pond, however!)

http://www.woodleighbullets.com.au/

-Bob F.

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Huvius
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
#113280 - 02/09/08 05:12 AM

I have two boxes of .350G&H - one is unopened!

For comparison, I lined up a .375H&H, .350G&H, and a .300H&H.
All are the same length, base diameter, case diameter, etc.
The only difference I could see is the belt width was a little greater on the .350 and the .300 compared to the .375 - perhaps a difference in manufacturer - the .300 is Winchester, and the .375 is Western.

Add to this a .333G&H Super Mag. and a .275H&H and you have quite a versatile group from the same parent case.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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BFaucett
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113304 - 02/09/08 11:11 AM

Huvius,

Thanks for sharing those photos!! Those are the first photographs of actual .350 G&H Mag cartridges that I have ever seen.

Cheers!
-Bob F.

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shinz
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113312 - 02/09/08 12:52 PM

Huvius, very nice, in fact extraordinarily nice, I've always considered myself fortunate to have one in my collection, & then you come along with that lot.

What headstamp do yours have on them? Mine has no headstamp but from the pics a similar bullet. Many thanks.
Steve

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Huvius
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: shinz]
#113414 - 03/09/08 08:51 AM

They are headstamped "Western 350 G&H Magnum"
You can see on the box that they use Western bullets as well.
Funny thing, I had these out for consideration at the collector show here in Denver, and the highest offer I had was $40 - I declined...

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Con
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113424 - 03/09/08 11:24 AM

Huvius,
If a 35cal expander was run through 300H&H brass ... will that essentially get you a 350 G&H Magnum case? If so ... chambering becomes a 300H&H reamer followed by 35cal neck/throaters ... dies are easy to arrange by opening a 300H&H set ... hmmmmmm!!
Cheers...
Con

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shinz
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#113425 - 03/09/08 11:35 AM

Quote:

They are headstamped "Western 350 G&H Magnum"
You can see on the box that they use Western bullets as well.
Funny thing, I had these out for consideration at the collector show here in Denver, and the highest offer I had was $40 - I declined...

Ouch, I guess there's no accounting for taste then. Could be that they didn't know them for what they were.

That sounds like the sort of show I might possibly have enjoyed but my funds manager (wife) would have hated me to have been to.

I'll just have to look for a head stamped one now that I've heard about them. Don't 'spose you'd have a pic of same would you?
Steve

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Huvius
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#113437 - 03/09/08 01:58 PM

Quote:

Huvius,
If a 35cal expander was run through 300H&H brass ... will that essentially get you a 350 G&H Magnum case? If so ... chambering becomes a 300H&H reamer followed by 35cal neck/throaters ... dies are easy to arrange by opening a 300H&H set ... hmmmmmm!!
Cheers...
Con

Seems that Western probably did make the 350G&H from 300H&H. I measured the rim thickness of fired cases and the 300H&H measured between .015" and .016" The 350G&H measured between .012" and .013".
I suspect the brass thins out as it is resized (stretched).
Sounds reasonable that you could resize to .35 cal. and fireform the brass to your chamber.
You will notice that the shoulder on the .350 is even a little further up than the .375, so you could probably neck down and trim .375 brass as well and then blow out the shoulder in the same way.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Squarebridge
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Reged: 21/08/08
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Huvius]
#114055 - 09/09/08 10:52 PM

I am a huge 350 G&H nut too. I own an original Western round, and it is my talisman against vampires and IRS agents. I intend to build a rifle for it, possibly on a sporterized P17 Enfield action just because you never see those any more and there were some really sexy sporters built on that action back in the day. To me, the 350 G&H is the ultimate American big game round. I probably give it far more credit than it deserves, but I can't imagine anything nicer. Developed by Americans, with an good American name (based on a British case...but we don't need to mention that!)

The original loading was, in the references I've found, .357, not .358. The round I own has a sloping shape to the bullet which makes it difficult to mike, and it doesn't matter anyway, but I thought I'd throw that out. When I get reamers and dies made I'll use the .358 dimension.

I suppose you send the cartridge (carefully) to a tool maker like Clymer's, who will make the reamers for you (one for the chamber, another for the reloading dies) and then have dies made, and then have a barrel short chambered, and go from there? Seems a logical process. Am I leaving anything out?

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DarylS
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Squarebridge]
#114073 - 10/09/08 02:38 AM

Squarebridge - usually, the chamber is cut first, then you make up at least 3 cases using whatever dies you need, then send 3 fully formed cases to a die maker. I suggest you not do this with CH4D as they would not match a chamber we had, but would only send a smaller bodied variation that was taken as standard many years ago. The shoulder of the "custom" dies sent was .006" undersize. They did not 'fix' their error when the dies were returned, yet charged again for the "repair". I will not deal with CH4D in the future.

To go at the chamber from the 'other' end, Dave Kiff of Pacific Tool and Gauge should be able to help. A google search will give his web site.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Squarebridge
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#114086 - 10/09/08 07:17 AM

Thanks Daryl S.

I'm confused - how can I make up 3 cases and send them to a die maker, if I don't have dies to form the cases? I also am unclear on what "going from the other end" would entail. Sounds painful.

This is how I envisioned it (thinking just pure logic, with no real insight involved...

Send the original cartridge to a reamer maker. Tell them I want the new bullet to be .358 instead of the original .357, but everything else stays the same, and get the chamber and die reamers cut. I know the tolerances and dimensions will of course be different, but I figured they would know exactly how to size things so that THEIR die reamer cut dies to form cases to fit THEIR chamber reamer. Then send the reamer off to RCBS or whoever, and have loading and case forming dies made up. And have a barrel made.

Thanks very much for the input. I don't mean to be thick headed - this is my first rodeo and there is much I'm probably misunderstanding and much "cart before the horse"ing.

I don't mean to hijack this thread - my apologies. I'll be glad to start a new one if needed.

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Squarebridge]
#114087 - 10/09/08 07:41 AM

Squarebridge.

Sent it to the reamer maker (I use PTG) and get a 1st cut and finish reamer set. The 1st cut will then make the dies for the cartridge.

Regards

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DarylS
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Bramble]
#114091 - 10/09/08 08:06 AM

Squarebridge - you use dies from your dead die box to make up 3 or more cases, then fire them in the chamber - then send them to a die maker so fitted dies can be made for your chamber. This is usually cheaper than getting 2 reamers made and buying die blanks to make your dies with or having some smith make them for you with your reamers. If you go that route, the roughing reamer is used to make the FL die and the finnish reamer is used to make the seater. It is cheaper to buy one reamer, the finnish reamer, cut the chamber, cobble some cases to fireform, sent them off to a die maker to make the dies for you. Maybe $140.00 to $200.00 for the dies. If a Smith makes them from your 2 reamers, you'll be looking at many times that price. 1st of all, there's the extra $180.00 for the roughing reamer - then the smith's time and materials for the dies - probably 200 to several hundred $$. That makes the set of dies cost you $180.00 + 2 more - maybe more than that.

You don't need exactly correct dies to make ammo - thought you knew that.

For expample, I used a 6.5x68S reamer to cut the my idea of a 9.5x68 chamber in a .375 barrel - around 1988. I ran the 6.5x68S reamer in to the same shoulder length as the 8x68S chamber(different than the 6.5x68S). I bought a neck throater and cut the neck and throat. What I ended up with was a .375 barrel chamberd for a .375 on the 8x68S case, using a 6.5x68S reamer and a neck throater. I then made my brass for this 'custom' chamber using a .375" neck expander die on 6.5x68S and 8x68S brass, necking them up to take a .375" bullet. 3 fired cases were sent to Huntingtons die service and a set of 9.5x68 dies were produced from those first 3 fired cases. Until those dies arrived, 8x68S brass as well as .375H&H brass was used for this rifle. .375H&H brass needed the belt turned to .522", trimmed to proper case length, was loaded, fireformed and perfectly fitted brass resulted, ready for re-loading - all without having dies previously. While waiting for the dies to arrive, I bored a .358 Seater die to resize the fireformed cases and reloaded them using makeshift dies. By the time the 'real dies' arrived, the rifle had fired off more than 700 rounds. It's your choice.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Squarebridge
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#114095 - 10/09/08 09:29 AM

Quote:

For expample, I used a 6.5x68S reamer to cut the my idea of a 9.5x68 chamber in a .375 barrel - around 1988. I ran the 6.5x68S reamer in to the same shoulder length as the 8x68S chamber(different than the 6.5x68S). I bought a neck throater and cut the neck and throat. What I ended up with was a .375 barrel chamberd for a .375 on the 8x68S case, using a 6.5x68S reamer and a neck throater. I then made my brass for this 'custom' chamber using a .375" neck expander die on 6.5x68S and 8x68S brass, necking them up to take a .375" bullet. 3 fired cases were sent to Huntingtons die service and a set of 9.5x68 dies were produced from those first 3 fired cases. Until those dies arrived, 8x68S brass as well as .375H&H brass was used for this rifle. .375H&H brass needed the belt turned to .522", trimmed to proper case length, was loaded, fireformed and perfectly fitted brass resulted, ready for re-loading - all without having dies previously. While waiting for the dies to arrive, I bored a .358 Seater die to resize the fireformed cases and reloaded them using makeshift dies. By the time the 'real dies' arrived, the rifle had fired off more than 700 rounds. It's your choice.

"First, you catch a rabbit..."

I obviously have a great deal to learn about this stuff.

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Con
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Squarebridge]
#114104 - 10/09/08 12:30 PM

squarebridge,
Do a google search for "Manson reamers", email them requesting a reamer drawing of the 350 G&H Magnum. If they haven't got one, email Clymer, PTG etc etc. Buy the finishing reamer (you dont need a rougher or headspace guages), and have a rifle chambered. Cobble together 3 rounds (I'd use 300H&H brass simply opened to 35cal with a 358Norma staring load and work upwards) and fire them to get x3 well fireformed cases. Send the 3 cases plus a reamer drawing to Hornady who will cut you a die set for around US$150 plus postage.

I'm doing a 35wildcat at the moment (verifying the reamer drawing at the moment), after which we'll have rifles built and follow the above process to get a set of custom dies.
Cheers...
Con

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gryphon
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: BFaucett]
#114120 - 10/09/08 03:49 PM

Dont forget another 35 cal...the 358 Norma mag,its hot to trot on most things and out performs many others...

Maybe some one can post a few figures for me?us please?

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Con
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: gryphon]
#114125 - 10/09/08 09:46 PM

squarebridge,
I emailed Manson regarding the 350 G&H Magnum and also to confirm my 358CRG. Here's his response regarding the 350 G&H magnum, and its an interesting response.

"I've attached several prints of 35-cal Magnums for your reference, and a description of the 35 Magnums from the Speer #4 manual that covered wildcats popular at the time the manual was published. Reading the comments about 35-cal magnums, and comparing the different versions that have come down to us, it's apparent there was not just one chamber spec at the time. Chose the one you like and have at it!"

Manson's sent a few different reamer specs for what is a '350 G&H Magnum', which just goes to show that as wildcatters, we tread on the shoulders of great men that have gone before us. As gryphon notes, there's nothing a 350 G&H Magnum cant do that the 358Norma wont do ... and if you want serious horsepower ... the 358STA and 358RUM will do it in spades.
Cheers...
Con

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DarylS
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Con]
#114137 - 11/09/08 01:11 AM

My 358 Norma Mag was great on coyotes - 6 round capacity - 250gr. Spitzers at 2,900fps - what fun from prone position.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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IronBuck
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: DarylS]
#122416 - 27/12/08 04:47 PM

I have 2 rifles chambered in 35 whelen. I love this caliber. It is my favorite for North American game. I have taken many deer & several balck bears with it. Some day my custom mauser in this caliber WILL follow me to Africa!

Here is my elk load: Easily good to 300+ yards.

250 Grain Nosler Partition/ RL 15/ Fed 210 primer

Indices Range
Range - yds. 0 100 200 300 400
Velocity - ft./sec. 2550 2357 2174 1999 1833
Energy - ft.-lbs. 3609 3085 2623 2218 1865
Path - in. -1.5 2.9 0.9 -8.4 -26.4
Drift - in. 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0
Time of flight - sec. 0.0 0.1 0.3 0.4 0.6

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: IronBuck]
#122431 - 27/12/08 09:29 PM

It's really a shame that the .358 Norma Magnum is not more popular than it is. The .350G&H, .350 Rigby, .358 Norma, and the .358 STA; all great cartridges.

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bonanza
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: Der_Jaeger]
#122445 - 28/12/08 02:01 AM

With just a bit of research, the .375 H&H with a 270 grain projectile at 2400 fps is ballisticlly identical to the .358 G&H with a 250 grain projectile at 2500 fps.

Not to take anything away from the .358 G&H, but I rather have a .35 Whelen and a .375 H&H.

For the record. I have a .35 Winchester, which is essentially a .35 Whelen flanged!

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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IronBuck
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122453 - 28/12/08 04:20 AM

Quote:

For the record. I have a .35 Winchester, which is essentially a .35 Whelen flanged!

A great old round. What rifle? Winchester model 95? I used to see 95s at gun shows in the early 90s at GREAT prices. Both 35 Winchesters & 405's. wish I had picked one up then. The prices are WAY up now.

For some reason I have always loved the 35 caliber. I have a MArlin 336 in 35 Remington. yu daughter uses this one more than me. As stated previously I have 2 35 whelens......they are my favorite. Easy to load & when they hit home game just DROPS. Bang/Flops are the norm. I want to build a mannlicher style full stock rifle in 358 winchester. With a 20" barrel. Would be a great woods gun. I just need to find a suitable left hand action. I'd love to find some more left hand zastava mausers. I have also toyed with the idea of a 358 Norms. I have an extra M70 in 300 win mag that would be the donor rifle for that one.

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bonanza
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: IronBuck]
#122455 - 28/12/08 05:06 AM

Holland and Holland round action top lever back-action hammer double rifle.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Boddington on the .35 Whelen [Re: bonanza]
#122457 - 28/12/08 05:30 AM

Very nice pair of rifles!!!

But, ice with Whisky??

--------------------

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