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264
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500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs
      #369064 - 08/09/22 12:10 PM

Just returned home from weeks hunting in Darwin Picked Matt up at the airport and straight into it. Some big days.
Very hot and most of the country unburnt, or burning. so the hunting was going to be tough.
Heres some pics and descriptions of how it went. Cheers Mick
London guns 500 J CZ 550 505G

Fire burnt down to camp

8 KM in on the first morning we found a small mob of buff , very hard to make out in the smoke haze so closed the gap to around 70m.
Matt got his first then some fast shooting for 6 hitting the ground.
Matt with his first buff

another

young bull


recovered woodleigh 535's


Matt was onto a breaking away boar next

Early morning start the next day and heard a scrubber, but couldn't locate him. So headed back up towards a bedding ,day camp area and bumped a bull at close range. He broke from behind a ant hill and pulled up Matt dropped him with two quick shots

carrying the head out

arvo hunt along a dry system creek with Jason
Nice boar dropped where he was bedded how 338 250 PPSN

escaping boar 535 PPSN

Nice spot

Fresh burn at the next location. Mitch with aaa couple he dropped 300wm Kimber


Small mob bedded , dropped 4 with the 500J


had to hunt around burning sections

resting up, or hunting half the day and surviving the rest

boar breaking from creek with 338-06 160TTSX, lots of grass

Run out to the buff carcasses

fast shooting

Mitch with young boar

A few more pigs taken along with a a few horses, a great but hard week. Heres a few more pics Cheers Mick
Keelback harmless

tree down across road

camp


dinner


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264
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369065 - 08/09/22 12:13 PM



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264
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369066 - 08/09/22 12:29 PM

More Pics-
Mitch with boar of a buff carcasse

blister

sunrise devils marbles


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264
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369067 - 08/09/22 12:43 PM

Matt sent a couple of his pics-
Tourist

Running and gunning

525 woodleigh RNSP 505 G



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93x64mm
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369077 - 08/09/22 09:28 PM

Boy they certainly did a great job Mick!
Well done to all, great photos gents


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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 93x64mm]
      #369092 - 09/09/22 05:59 AM

Mick and co, well done. Good to see you still sweating in the tropical sun. Burning out the Victorian chills.

No doubt I will comment more when I gave a better read and look.

Interesting in hunting around the late dry season fires.

Thanks for posting yet again.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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degoins
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369110 - 10/09/22 12:52 AM

Looked like a great time with some great looking rifles. Thanks for sharing.

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: degoins]
      #369132 - 10/09/22 11:08 AM

I thought I might just pike in regarding that trip and add a couple of bits of info. As far as the 505 and the 500 went there was nothing between them, both spoke with authority. Everyone of the large animals only required one shot each to anchor them, a couple of them needed a finisher but none moved from the spot when hit. Both of us used Woodleigh bullets and they certainly worked very well as seen by the pics.

When we spotted the buffalo we were a little distance out but stalked in to about 75 yards at which point the breeze which was in our face changed direction and the two that we could see started to wind us and looked nervous. So I raised the rifle and fired and the buff dropped instantly, Mick then fired straight after me and dropped the second buff. To our surprise it was actually a mob of about a dozen animals and they bolted to the left. Mick and I were straight after them reloading while running and then the mob stopped to have a look. I immediately fired at a buff looking back at us and Mick fired at one just to right, both dropped on the spot. Then the mob took of again and Mick dropped one heading away and I took a running shot at a good sized buff bolting to the left at full throttle and it collapsed and ploughed into the ground and didn't move. Six buff in realistically about fifteen seconds, pretty exciting stuff.

The scrub bull the next day was very different. After having followed up on a scrubber calling in the distance but unable to locate him we continued for some time searching through the flood pan. Eventually we were heading back to the car and while still some distance away I was walking about twenty yards behind Mick and he was looking slightly to the right. Suddenly this most enormous Scrub bull appeared to the right of a termite mound on our left and stopped. It had been directly in line with the termite mound and we had not seen it. I spotted it first and was already swinging my gun into position when Mick saw it and immediately turned around and while dropping on his knees and covering his ears with his hands screamed shoot, which I did and anchored the bull, a quick follow up shot rolled him over. The bull was absolutely massive, much bigger than it looks in the pics, with long legs and a huge brahma hump. Definitely the biggest animal I have ever seen apart from an Elephant at the Zoo. Still the 505 dropped it and it proved impossible to stop it from bleeding for the photo. There was pools of blood on the ground which we covered with dirt but we could not plug the hole in the bull to stop it, so unfortunately thee is some blood in the pic.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369136 - 10/09/22 11:42 AM

Now some people might think that considering the number of animals taken that the hunting is easy. I can assure you that it is anything but. Insanely hard is the best way to describe it. The statement was made by Mitch that you hunt the morning and then spend the afternoon trying to survive and this is completely true. The conditions while tranquil around camp are brutal when out hunting. The mornings are nice until about eleven o'clock when it starts to heat up and by one o'clock its unbearable for long periods. You can only move about 1 km max with out having to drop into a waterhole and cool down. The heat is staggering on the flats and it reflects back at you from the hard ground, and when pushing through grass the heat comes up into your face like a Sauna. Several times when having to cross some rather large open flats your feet become so hot that you can feel your skin start to burn, but you cant stop as there is no shade. You just have to push on until the next water hole and then dive in and recover. Before I came up Mick said to me don't bring any boots that have glued soles only as they will separate with the heat regardless of how expensive they are and I can see what he meant. I had Courtney's and they didn't give a shit but you can see what could happen. Luckily Mick had worked out the best ways to hydrate and his techniques were a game changer.

It was by far the hardest hunting I have ever done and to be honest I couldn't keep up with the guys after a couple of days. Over the six days I walked 90km but Mick, Mitch and Jason did double that in the same time, and at an insane pace. Remember too that Mick is sixty and Mitch has only just recovered from a broken neck and shattered chest and is on meds, but you would never know. They would come into camp and complain about their feet being a bit sore with some blisters, have a laugh and then go and do fifteen kilometers in the afternoon before dinner, and it can still be 35 degrees at that time. These guys are on another level and friends of Mick that I met in Darwin said the same thing. I found it worked better for me after the first two days to get dropped of early in the morning at certain distance from camp and then work my way back or do a loop out of camp working back. Distances would be between 12 and 15Km but I could take my time and would take most of the day to do it returning at about four o'clock. That way I didn't burn out my feet and I was able to look around and investigate as well, take some pics and enjoy being out in totally unfamiliar terrain. Once back I would have a wash, clean out the fire pit and collect fire wood. This gave me a chance recover and give my feet a rest. Remember to that Mick and I were carrying 10 1/2 pund guns although after a couple of days I didn't feel the weight anymore. The guys would then come back at about 6:30 and as soon as they arrived instantly start cooking, and I mean Instantly, as in Mitch would open the car door, take one step to the cooker, light it and have olive oil in and be stirring. Bloody funny, Mick wasn't any different.

Matt

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369137 - 10/09/22 12:12 PM

Now some people may look at at that less than flattering pic of me around camp and conclude that my fitness was not up to scratch and that may have been partially true although I had dropped quite a few KG's before the trip and was walking big KM's every morning but nothing prepares you for what we did up there except for doing exactly that many times over and training in high heat, something impossible to do in Victoria in Winter. Still I had one of the best trips of my life with an absolute ripper bunch of blokes, really fantastic. The flights were good with no trouble at the airports either.

By the way that picture of me standing in front of that termite mound shows their height. I am 165cm so that gives you and idea.

As to the 505, it is one of the easiest cartridge to load for once you have to appropriate components which are all bigger than anything else. A factory crimp die is necessary as the bullets definitely move under recoil however I couldn't buy one even though Safari Arms in South Africa had them for sale, a special run from Lee Dies. Sending it with the post was not an option and DHL SA wanted $1000 AUD to ship something that fits in the palm of your hand, obviously corrupt. So I made one by reverse engineering a 458 crimp die and scaling it up to suit the 505.

It doesn' mater what brass you use or what projectile, they all shoot into the same point of impact. Before I went I did significant load testing of different projectiles which included:

525 grain RNSN Woodleigh 2100 fps
525 grain RNSN Barnes (Old stock with a lead core) 2130 fps
525 Grain RNSN Hornady DGX 2200 fps
525 Grain RNSN Bertram 2100 fps
600 grain PPSN Woodleigh 2030 fps

For some reason the Hornady's were noticeably quicker and you could feel it in the recoil but all projectiles shot to the same point of impact over 25 and 50 yards.
Brass was a mix of Bertram, Norma and Jamison.
All loads used 130 grains of ADI AR2213SC with and a 1" long 1/2" diameter foam filler except the 600 grain Woodleighs which used 121 grains of the same powder. Federal 215 Magnum primers were used.

Some advice when chronographing, stand well back.

I will do a post on the rifle itself in due course.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369140 - 10/09/22 12:33 PM

Quote:



Still the 505 dropped it and it proved impossible to stop it from bleeding for the photo. There was pools of blood on the ground which we covered with dirt but we could not plug the hole in the bull to stop it, so unfortunately thee is some blood in the pic.

Matt.




Blood isn't a problem on these forums like some other places.

Anyone with a problem with blood should take up knitting ...

But it is good to not show too much gore.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #369141 - 10/09/22 12:38 PM

Quote:

Insanely hard is the best way to describe it. The statement was made by Mitch that you hunt the morning and then spend the afternoon trying to survive and this is completely true. The conditions while tranquil around camp are brutal when out hunting. The mornings are nice until about eleven o'clock when it starts to heat up and by one o'clock its unbearable for long periods. You can only move about 1 km max with out having to drop into a waterhole and cool down. The heat is staggering on the flats and it reflects back at you from the hard ground, and when pushing through grass the heat comes up into your face like a Sauna. Several times when having to cross some rather large open flats your feet become so hot that you can feel your skin start to burn, but you cant stop as there is no shade. You just have to push on until the next water hole and then dive in and recover. Before I came up Mick said to me don't bring any boots that have glued soles only as they will separate with the heat regardless of how expensive they are and I can see what he meant. I had Courtney's and they didn't give a shit but you can see what could happen. Luckily Mick had worked out the best ways to hydrate and his techniques were a game changer.


Matt




I've noticed when the calendar ticks over from August to September, so does the thermometer. And again even more September to October. Lastly the humidity in November even worse. Tough going long distances and hours there.

I wasn't aware that was you. Well done on your hunt. Waidmannsheil!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (10/09/22 12:40 PM)


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264
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369143 - 10/09/22 01:39 PM

The time of year is a balancing act. We were too early, not hot enough and not burnt which makes for very hard hunting. Chose the time to suit Matt as the hotter months would have been unbearable. Still reasonable hunting. 7 days straight is a huge effort.
Foot sore and blisters are part of the big KM's.
On Hydration. we manage our core temp by using iced water from 360 or yeti 1.5lt insulated bottles. As per DR Matt Brearlys studies on heat exhaustion (Google It.) Work uses his program for heat stress managment.
Usually carry 3 litres for the day , water load before leaving camp down a 600ml bottle , and carry another 600 ml bottle which is consumed at first stop/ 4-5km in. Route is planned around water availability from springs , creeks or known water sources. Topping up at every opportunity. Also cooling your head , nape of neck, which helps keep core temp down.
Usualy still have iced water for the trip out. Hydralite added although more for flavour. Food is a mix of lollies, muesli bars , biltong.
A iced cold ginger beer is appreciated at the end of the day.
Chris M put me onto the iced bottles.
It amused Matt that we returned to camp and got sorted for dinner straight away. Generaly done as settling in for a rest causes muscle stiffness and or cramps From lactic acid build up.
Shower , rest and a feed makes it all seem worth while.
Matts CZ 550 is what they should come like, a fair amount of stock work and refinements have gone into a nice handling rifle Very good stock work.
Heres a few more of Mitch's pics. Cheers Mick
dodging fire front

Mitch nice boar

Mitch and Jason

Mitch

Figs

bower

buff carcasse pigs have been on it

Mitch with a couple


Edited by 264 (11/09/22 08:40 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369147 - 10/09/22 05:57 PM

Quote:

Route is planned around water availability from springs , creeks or known water sources. Topping up at every opportunity.




So you drink from the various springs and water holes? Are they clean enough and don't cause stomach aches?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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264
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369149 - 10/09/22 07:22 PM

Most water is of good quality Changes with time of year and usage from animals If it looks suspect we use life straws. No ones been sick yet.
Nice shady water hole, good water. Good resting spot

Joey getting water at a spring


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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369163 - 11/09/22 08:01 AM



Nice rifles. I remember seeing one of those .500 Jeffery M98s in the shop.



What are the metal poles for? Temporary or left there for future camps? I guess for stretching a tarpaulin over a wire?



I've done that, Once for JBs water buffalo. One much earlier for my large scrub bull. It can get painfully! Carrying out by oneself one needs to cut everything and as much off as one can first. Then actually quite like slung with a rope from one shoulder.



Yes, finding a cooler wet shady spot to spend two or so hours during the middle of the day is a good idea. A drink, a meal, a siesta, get wet, cool off and avoid the mad midday sun of an Englishman! Very uncomfortable in a hot dry unshaded spot if a cool wetter good shade spot can't be found.

I don't know if I could trust drinking the water from pools? With a life straw I guess. And emergencies. One never knows if there is a dead animal just upstream. Plus all the cow, buffalo, pig shit etc.

Matt did you drink from the pools?

A question. Why shoot out whole small herds of buffalo? Six or more beasts at once? Were you shooting on a station where they wanted them shot out? Or hunting a park and the same?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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264
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369168 - 11/09/22 08:51 AM

Campsites have a fire pit BBQ and a set up for shade/ tarpaulin and are permanent.
This hunt was a permitted hunt on a back country hunting blocks. Taking herd animals in a culling situation for parks NT. The back country program has been running since 2016-17.


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Rule303
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369169 - 11/09/22 08:55 AM

Nice looking rifles. Looks to have been a great trip. Good friends, good rifles and hard but good hunting, what's not to like.

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: Rule303]
      #369174 - 11/09/22 06:13 PM

Yes it was definitely me and Waidmannsdank!!!

Yeah drank from the pools all the time. There are literally hundreds of them sprinkled throughout the are and majority are springs. There was no actual flowing water to speak of. Some we avoided as they were a bit big and may have had crocks in them. Others were covered in dust and leaves but other were crystal clear with little fish and tiny Cherubin swimming in them, these are the ones that we would drink from most of the time. The water was exceptionally good and often quite cool because many of the pools were at the bottom of very deep creeks. Some creeks were at least 5 or 6 meters deep and lined with big trees so they provided good shade. Some of the water holes are all rock bottom so they are not that comfortable to sit for long periods but where we could we rested in were there was a sand bottom so you could have a kip after cooling down.

Further to what Mick was saying regarding the water bottles. The insulating qualities of those Yeti water bottles has to be seen to be believed. I carried two 1 litre bottles and when filled with ice you could fit in a 600ml chilled water bottle. When you had drunk the contents of the bottle you just filled it up in a spring and instantly had cold water again. Once consumed you could do it one more time before the ice had finally melted but you still had icy cold water. A game changer.

There were lots of little tricks you learned fairly quickly such as shoelace tension. Too tight and your feet would get hot fast, too loose and you would get blisters to fast so you had to compromise.

The same with your pack. I took two small ones as I wasn't sure which one would be better. Used the smaller one first which was lighter but the straps were to narrow and would dig into your shoulder over time especially with the 10 pound rifle slung over as well. Switched the next day to the slightly bigger on which was a little heavier but had much wider straps and the back was padded better, much more comfortable.

You also carry the absolute minimum you can because you are carrying it for a long time.

Rifles were carried in a variety of ways depending on conditions and what you were walking through and whether or not you were anticipating action.

We both used open sights only. Micks had a single small bead, mine was the same originally but I machined the ramp and fitted a Recknagel bead with flip up moon sight which as the bead was taller than the original it corrected the POI perfectly and the Moonsight was fantastic, I used it all the time especially as the animals were all black or dark in colour. I never once felt handicapped with open sights only, but I do practice.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369273 - 15/09/22 04:29 AM

Quote:

Luckily Mick had worked out the best ways to hydrate and his techniques were a game changer.




Quote:


On Hydration. we manage our core temp by using iced water from 360 or yeti 1.5lt insulated bottles. As per DR Matt Brearlys studies on heat exhaustion (Google It.) Work uses his program for heat stress managment.
Usually carry 3 litres for the day , water load before leaving camp down a 600ml bottle , and carry another 600 ml bottle which is consumed at first stop/ 4-5km in. Route is planned around water availability from springs , creeks or known water sources. Topping up at every opportunity. Also cooling your head , nape of neck, which helps keep core temp down.
Usualy still have iced water for the trip out. Hydralite added although more for flavour. Food is a mix of lollies, muesli bars , biltong.
A iced cold ginger beer is appreciated at the end of the day.
Chris M put me onto the iced bottles.




Interesting on all this. I'd like to see these bottles. Will do a search.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369274 - 15/09/22 04:34 AM

Is this what you are talking about?

https://au.yeti.com/collections/drink-bo...=39828228472966

https://www.360degrees.com.au/products.php?Category=Bottles&Subcat=Vacuum%20Insulated

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (15/09/22 04:39 AM)


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264
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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369279 - 15/09/22 06:08 PM

Yes there similar to the bottles we are using.

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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369280 - 15/09/22 07:27 PM

I have similar. Ice does not last in them in hot weather. Even if put in a insulated carrier.

???

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: NitroX]
      #369281 - 15/09/22 08:45 PM

Well if you had the Yeti or 360 , its would.

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Re: 500 Jeffery 505 Gibbs [Re: 264]
      #369295 - 16/09/22 11:57 PM

I've got three Oasis brand, 2 X 750 ml double walled vacuum metal bottle. Same sort of construction. The cap opening might be large enough for normal ice cubes. Ideally should be wider. I might look for some plastic tubular container, the diameter small enough to fit. Ideally the ice crylinder would fit in but longer. No idea if such plastic tubes exists? They did on the 1970s for making kids ice blocks at home.

The third Oasis a straight walled food, soup container.

Haven't used them in a summer yet. Will give your theory/practice a try. Maybe buy one of your suggested brands and see how they compare in use. Especially if 1.5 L and wider mouthed.

I'd love to see a photo of yours. Or a link to them. To see exactly what you refer to. Especially if they are up to 1.5 litres in size. What sort of cap are you using?

The icecubes, normal size? Or much larger? I assume made in a camp portable fridge/freezer.

I doubt it would work ie freezing in the bottle. But freezing water IN the bottles would mean the ice lasts longer. Topping up with chilled water. Water expands as ice so adequate space to expand means the bottles certainly could not be filled. The added water, also means there is water to drink until the solid ice melts. Sometimes too slowly!

My fears is putting a whole bottle in a freezer, say 50% filled or more, but leaving space for ice to expand. Cap off of course. The fear is the bottle might still crumple or expand and blow instead? The vacuum space, issues or not? In theory, a vacuum NO issues? One way is to try it out.

I usually like to freeze larger blocks of ice for old style drinking water containers. The old plastic insulated water containers. A nice big block of ice fitting in, lasted much longer.

The longest and best was say in the Kymberly. A very large custom made cool box with 9 or even 15 litre ice block from a bucket. Kept the caught fish, meat cool, plus beers for many days. Bring the fish and meat back to town to the freezer.

The 9 l and up to 20 l bucket ice blocks last so much longer.

Nowadays camping fridge and freezers are much more available than then.

***

Absolutely correct on managing hydration and temperature.

I used to be far more able. Yound0ger, fitter. Walked 32 kms or more in 40 deg C heat on nine sips of water in Africa .... One day after a wounded wildebeest. One water bottle between six persons. A few sips and at one point a tracker refilled it in a cattle trough, 12 inches covered in slime ... All the others drank. I decided not to. Diarhorrea or worse could mean the end of the safari. Have had diarhorrea in Africa many times. A couple times seriously. Filled my hat twice with water to soak down. No shade almost at any time that day. Tough day. Thought I would be stuffed for the next day, but no, was fine. Funny,I had no blisters. The PH did. . Wore the early first model or two of Courtneys.

Btw I could have drank the half litre of clean water in the bottle but he filled it before I realised. In the days before lifestraws type devices. 1994.

Btw as well,don't like sharing water bottles with people that have who knows what diseases, HIV, AIDS, etc. I came back from Zimbabwe with glandular fever and had it regularly for three years after that. It messed me around seriously. And gladular fever is passed on by saliva. So I want my own exclusive water bottle since then. And don't the immature ignorant drama queen PHs carry on as if it is a major ask.

Cooling using a wet hat is a good idea. I many times have filled my Akubra to douse my head and body. A light cloth scarf soaked and around the neck is also useful. Good for wiping the sweat from the face as well. I must use such a scarf one day!

I've had one or two heat episodes when hunting in extreme hot weather. Luckily one time I decided to spend some time cooling off under a shady tree. Drinking, wetting down. Getting the heart rate down. Later I realised had I not I might have had serious heat medical issues.

I remember watching the "Walking the Nile" series. One episode one young fit American guy died from heat or heat stroke walking in the heat and conditions. Such a thing can be quite possible if not controlled.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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