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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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PapaScarface
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Loc: NSW, Australia
Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge?
      #288737 - 05/10/16 10:29 PM

Lately I have been thinking of how much I would like a 7x57 in the gun safe, while also looking to add another round to use chasing sambar, a quick google doesn't really show much on the 7x57 v sambar, so does anyone use the 7x57 on sambar?
What weight projectiles should I be looking at? Brands?
What limitations would the round have for chasing these big deer?

Papa

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mchughcb
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: PapaScarface]
      #288738 - 05/10/16 10:53 PM

First sambar I shot was with a 7x57R, 175gr interlock. Shot 4. Lost a nice stag. I don't rate it as a reliable stopper with chest shots. Fallow, pigs and goats it's fine. The hole is really small and not much if any blood trail.

My minimum these days is a 220gr woodleighs from a 3006.

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DarylS
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: mchughcb]
      #288746 - 06/10/16 03:11 AM

I think perhaps a 140gr. TSX at 2,900fps or a 160gr. TSX at about 2,700fps should work OK and either would leave a blood trail from the far-side rib exit hole.

My own opinion though, having never shot one, would have me start in on them with a 9.3 of some sort, 57, 62 or 74mm varieties. I've read & heard here, they are a bit tough, although smaller, kinda like a Rocky Mountain Elk - that's tough.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Well_Well_Well
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: DarylS]
      #288756 - 06/10/16 09:14 AM

A bit like a 270/308. It will do it, but it's on the light end. Be prepared for follow up and use as premium a bullet you can afford, bearing in mind that the bullet is cheap.

A Tsx is a reasonable choice, otherwise I'd use the heaviest you can find. A heavy partition would be another good option.

In general you find that people gravitate towards heavier cartridges once they've followed up and possibly lost one.

I'd suggest the biggest calibre you can shoot well, using a large calibre, heavy bullet at around the same velocities as the 7x57. 9.3x62 is a popular choice, 338 win mag if you feel like it, some prefer a 358 win if a little recoil shy. If you can't shoot it well, it's not going to do anybody any good.

Interestingly fast magnums of smaller calibres (up to 30) are more uncomfortable to shoot in my view than bigger ones. The big ones have more recoil, for sure, but the sharpness of the smaller ones along with the noise makes them harder to manage.

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DarylS
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #288758 - 06/10/16 10:25 AM

The 9.3x57 and 9.3x62 are much easier to shoot than my .300 Mag.

The .375 and .300 are about on par. I do shoot them both reasonably well, though.

Using a MOA drop chart (with my MOA stadia wire scope), I was able to hit the 200, 300, 385 500 meter 15" square steel plates in 4 shots, one each using the .300 Mag. The 1,000 meter steel buffalo (4'x8') needed 2 rounds as I shot 1/2 MOA low with the first shot, low centre hit second shot. This was off the bench, of course, and using Winchester 180gr. "bonded" factory ammo.

I used this program - seemed about spot on. I used Remington 180gr. CL for BC (from RP site).

http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballis...=+Create+Chart+

This program also worked for my .243 to 500 meters making 1st round hits easy.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gwh
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: DarylS]
      #288776 - 06/10/16 09:30 PM

I will caveat my response with the fact that I live in fnq and haven't used the 7 x57 on sambar. I have shot a number of chital, wild dogs and fnq pigs with it using both 162 gr SSTS and 175 gr Woodleighs . 175 gr woodleighs are designed for the 7x57. They work beautifully. It is a lot of bullet. I would happily use it on
Larger species like sambar.

--------------------
Hunt hard, shoot straight

"I speak of Africa and golden joys; the joy of wandering through lonely lands; the joy of hunting the mighty and terrible lords of the wilderness, the cunning, the wary and the grim"

Theodore Roosevelt, Khartoum, 1910

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Homer
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gwh]
      #288799 - 07/10/16 10:03 AM

G'Day Fella's,

As Daryl and gwh said!

I have an old BSA Royal Featherweight (with a CRF, non-rotating extractor, etc action) rifle in .243.
I'm looking for a new replacement barrel (with same profile, apparently Tru-Flight make them?).
This will then be re-barreled to 7 x 57, as the magazine is plenty long enough for this cartridge.
I plan on loading Woodleigh 175grn bullets, as it's primary bush load.

A new barrel and stick of wood and, Homer will be a Happy Hunter!

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: Homer]
      #288801 - 07/10/16 10:39 AM

The 175 grain Woodleigh bullets would be the best bullet you could use on Sambar with that cartridge. IMO

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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gryphon
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #288807 - 07/10/16 04:14 PM

I have no doubt an even lighter pill would suffice.

There`s lots of room in the box and out side of it too!

I`d be happy with the `57 and a 150 grain Hydro! BAM!




--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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gryphon
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gryphon]
      #288808 - 07/10/16 04:32 PM

And because they are an accurate cal with a good rest you could part the ears of the sneaky 'peeker' here.



--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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eagle27
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gryphon]
      #288809 - 07/10/16 05:16 PM

Are Aussie animals becoming like African animals, armour plated?

There have been hundreds of thousands of red deer and the heavy muscled and bone Himalayan tahr knocked over by 243s, 7mms, 308's etc. here in NZ. The 7x57 was one of the favourites for this job and the 7mm-08 has now assumed much of this mantle. Sure for longer range shooting the equivalent calibre magnums have found a place too.

You don't need premium bullets either, a good cup and core in the boiler room, high in the shoulder or brisket, or a Texas heart shot will anchor any cloven hoofed animal no matter what country it lives in.
A lost animal is just poor bullet placement, not an inadequate calibre or bullet.

I tried some 175gr Winchester factory loads in my 7x57 when I had one, only because I had a packet and wanted the shells for reloading, and I found them slow killers on red deer. Sierra or Hornady 140gr cup and cores were instant killers on any decent bullet placement with animals either dropping to the shot or moving only a few metres. I have always found velocities above 2600fps to produce infinitely better results than the slower slugs on deer and goats animals. Nothing wrong with a heavier bullet but it needs to be driven fast and open up.
Sierra 160gr Gamekings at 3000fps in my 7x61S&H rifle were dynamite on anything hit.

I now use a 7mm-08 with 140 to 150gr Sierra or Remington Corelock and would be perfectly comfortable plonking one into any of those Sambar pictured and be guaranteed an animal on the deck.

I always hark back to Jack O'Connors wife on safari in Africa where she took 17 head of plains game with 19 shots, the 2 extras were put into a big heart shot Kudu bull to prevent it running too far. The other 16 animals were one shot kills mostly all dropping to the shot. His wife used a 7x57 with Sierra 160gr bullets at 2700fps. What more do you need.

So yes of course the 7x57 will be perfect on Sambar, but will you?

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Taylor416
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: eagle27]
      #288810 - 07/10/16 07:28 PM

I've been using a 7 x 57 for over 30 years, taken everything from feral cats to water buffalo with the cartridge. Favourite projectile was the 175 gn Hornady round nose until discontinued, but was lucky enough to source some recently. 160 gn Speer is good and of course various Woodleigh's. Just awesome.

Still comes down to the person squeezing the trigger tho.

Cheers

Chris

--------------------
Love to hunt!

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BillG500
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: Taylor416]
      #288811 - 07/10/16 07:57 PM

Put the right bullet in the right place and it will do the job just fine. A Swift A Frame, Barnes TSX, or a Hydro will sort them out. Right bullet right place, will tip em over every time.
There was a bloke who used to shoot elephants with a .303, seemed to work OK for him. Might of been a few tipped over with a 7x57 too.

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gryphon
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: BillG500]
      #288813 - 07/10/16 08:28 PM

As most members would know I have been touting factory Win 150 or 175 Sp`s forever,yes I have used Hydros/Partitions/round nose and whatever else that I cant remember. Gee they work extremely well in 7mmrm format.
I dont know why they dont work as well (presuming its the same projectile?) in the `57.Perhaps its the lesser power of the `57 I suspect.

--------------------
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xausa
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gryphon]
      #288814 - 07/10/16 09:13 PM

I have never shot a sambar (never even seen one, for that matter), but I have used a 7X57 on African and American game. I shot two wildebeest in a row using Winchester 174 grain factory loads in my rifle, both one shot kills and both at fairly close range. One was standing, head on, and the other running past me, broadside on, at a good pace, both shot off-hand, with no support. Neither was much more than 100 yards away.

For longer shots I think I would reach for my 7X64 or even 7mm Remington Magnum, but for close shots, and an easy carrying rifle, the 7X57 by all means.

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Homer
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: xausa]
      #288947 - 12/10/16 07:54 AM

G'Day Fella's,

As Eagle 27 mentions "Are Aussie animals becoming like African animals, armour plated?".
I have to agree but then, I know no shortage of people that use a .375 H&H, .458 Win Mag and similar Big Bore calibres, as their Sambar Rifles!

Bullet placement is every thing but quite often, the only option you may get on a Sambar in the scrub, is at the South End of a rapidly departing North Bound animal.
And do I have to mention, they are a Big Deer!!!
I have a couple of Sambar rifles (.350 Rem Mag and .338 Win Mag), and I shoot 250 grn Woodleigh PP bullets in both of them.................

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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gryphon
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: Homer]
      #288954 - 12/10/16 01:38 PM

Quote and the heavy muscled and bone Himalayan tahr End Quote


Does not a sambar stag make!

I know what you are on about but there is a weight discrepancy of quite a few hundred pounds..like perhaps 400.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: eagle27]
      #288956 - 12/10/16 02:33 PM

Quote:


I always hark back to Jack O'Connors wife on safari in Africa where she took 17 head of plains game with 19 shots, the 2 extras were put into a big heart shot Kudu bull to prevent it running too far. The other 16 animals were one shot kills mostly all dropping to the shot. His wife used a 7x57 with Sierra 160gr bullets at 2700fps. What more do you need.




Yes, I remember that story - Elinor is/was her name? My memory is shaky on that. She was a MUCH better shot than Jack.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gryphon
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: DarylS]
      #288960 - 12/10/16 04:45 PM

Did that REALLY happen? Or is that the written way it happened?

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gryphon]
      #288984 - 13/10/16 06:02 AM

Look at the 'stats'- 29 shots, 27 animals.

Jack's (his own admission) average # of rounds per Canadian (B.C. Al.) moose (which are big babies) was 3.8 rounds per, using his favourite Winchester M70 .270 with (probably) 130gr. ST's.

Seems Elinor was a MUCH better shot than he was.

Just saying, he own admission puts him in the "average wealthy guided hunter" category. His wife - well above normal. That, of course is merely my opinion.

A Buddy's wife needs only 1 100gr.SP .243 for her moose each year. She uses 85gr. TSX for deer - one per.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tophet1
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: mchughcb]
      #288990 - 13/10/16 08:15 AM

Quote:

First sambar I shot was with a 7x57R, 175gr interlock. Shot 4. Lost a nice stag. I don't rate it as a reliable stopper with chest shots. Fallow, pigs and goats it's fine. The hole is really small and not much if any blood trail.



This. Red deer is about the upper limit for reliable use of the 7x57. Yes you can get away with it on larger game, but not consistantly.

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eagle27
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gryphon]
      #289005 - 13/10/16 05:30 PM

Quote:

Quote and the heavy muscled and bone Himalayan tahr End Quote


Does not a sambar stag make!

I know what you are on about but there is a weight discrepancy of quite a few hundred pounds..like perhaps 400.



Yep but all that extra weight does not translate into the bullet having to travel any more distance to get to the vitals in a sambar than in a big bull tahr or red stag for that matter. If the bullet is well constructed and can punch through those animals it will punch through a sambar or any other head of say African plains game.

There is also tenacity to life of animals that comes into the equation. Our American friends write about how difficult elk are to get down and one needs as powerful a rifle they can handle for the job but New Zealand hunters who have had experience on both red deer and wapati (American elk) say the elk was a far 'softer' animal and many were bowled over easily with the old 303. Different story to the red deer where it is oft said, and I can vouch for it myself, that a big red deer hind is more tenacious to life and harder to get down than a stag.

A good 7mm bullet will easily drop any head of deer, goat or antelope type game provided the hunter does his bit.

Different story when we are talking about animals that maybe dangerous e.g. bears, buffalo, etc. where it is not just a matter of slipping a bullet into the kill zone and waiting for the animal to expire. The animal may cause you to expire before it does so itself so something different is needed here.

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eagle27
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gryphon]
      #289007 - 13/10/16 05:39 PM

Quote:

Did that REALLY happen? Or is that the written way it happened?



I've got the story as part of Jacks article in an RCBS reloading handbook on African cartridges and loadings. Did it really happen? I suppose we could ask that same question of every poster on this and every other forum. Unless you were there you can only take someone's word that it happened and why should Jack's word hold any less credence than anyone here?

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gryphon
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: eagle27]
      #289008 - 13/10/16 05:50 PM

There are a hell of a lot of names that have 'taken the easy way' in taking trophy animals around the world including here in Aus.
There has been some seriously shonky practices here in the name of the chase and a lot of it certainly wasn't fair! I have first hand accounts of it in taking certain trophy's and then being portrayed as a 'hunter'

I am not saying that his missus did anything like that,I was asking if it happened the way it was written.

Some and I did say some of the major gun writers in various places take quite a lot of liberty in showcasing their latest harvest,or how it happened!

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mchughcb
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Re: Where does the 7x57 Mauser stand as a sambar cartridge? [Re: gryphon]
      #289015 - 13/10/16 11:01 PM



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