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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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Sarg
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Samber X Red Stag ! !
      #137028 - 09/06/09 09:03 PM

Just saw a Samber Stag ? head shot in the weekend which scored 228DS , 32in long , which is for sure a Red deer cross , I know sounds crap , but it had Reds ears and colour, hair type,brow tines
Samber eye glands & nose pad ,very large body & shot in Samber area , but a fair few Reds are in the area too !
Looked a bit like a Barasingha (from India) face , it has a 7 point set of antlers

Would you call this a Samber record book head with Red blood in there ?

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: Sarg]
      #137030 - 09/06/09 09:18 PM

NO!

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DarylS
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: kamilaroi]
      #137038 - 09/06/09 11:21 PM

We're getting the same type crosses here between whitetails and mule deer. One must be careful he or she has the correct tag for the animal in the sites as here it's the antlers that separate the species. In ALTA, it's the tails.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: DarylS]
      #137055 - 10/06/09 04:12 AM

Sambar and rusa can breed. I don't think reds and sambar are compatible?

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John aka NitroX

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: Sarg]
      #137057 - 10/06/09 05:48 AM

Quote:

Just saw a Samber Stag ? head shot in the weekend
Would you call this a Samber record book head with Red blood in there ?




NO, definately not.

It's cheating the system if you do that and if you let one in,
then people will breed them just for that reason
- ESPECIALLY IN NEW ZEALAND which is known for breeding
weirdo deer head for different purposes.

Edited by 500Nitro (10/06/09 05:50 AM)

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gryphon
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #137063 - 10/06/09 09:01 AM

Sambar have been bred with red deer for research purposes by an NZ dept,the success rate was extremely poor,its freely available on the net (info) I have posted several articles around the traps on these hybrids.

As far as a r/book entry of course not.

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gryphon
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: gryphon]
      #137064 - 10/06/09 09:06 AM

of course we want a pic essay on the beast now cobber!

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Sarg
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: gryphon]
      #137073 - 10/06/09 11:55 AM

Thats my thoughts too , actually Australia has the floor on Samber cross breeding for Trophy heads in hunting parks with Rusa ,don't look quite right .
Here it is all Red breeding , I dont know how they make them that big , but it's not real any way !

Yes , breeding research to add meat onto Red Deer frames was done , took years cost a fortune & was a failure , but have seen 2 others & photos of more wild shot ones !

The New Zealand Record book using the Douglas Score is for Wild shot free range heads (It is meant to be any way) like Boone & Crockett records !

Now , well SCI "Rules" are a bit different as any thing goes if you are rich enough !

I'm sorry I didn't take any photos & I would feel bad posting them if I did , as the shooter is Very proud of it & I didn't want to rain on his parade , but I think he wants to get it recorded for the book , which is not too good ,there are others from the old days in the records ,when you see photos of the heads , but non of my business really !

It was & is amazing to see this type of mix in the features ears , tail , feet, hair type & colour
the mix can be different each time , hard to see all this in photos how ever !

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500Nitro
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: Sarg]
      #137074 - 10/06/09 12:08 PM


Sarg,

The weirdo deer I was referring to was actually
things like 26 point Red Stags that IMHO looked
more like Hat racks than red stags !!!!

Buy the Yanks loved them !!!!

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gryphon
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #137117 - 11/06/09 05:41 AM

Sarg it hasnt come to light so far on the two NZ forums...up to last night that i could find.

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JAWZ
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: gryphon]
      #137126 - 11/06/09 07:48 AM

Depends who scores it for a record. It should be scored none typical.

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Matt_Graham
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Reged: 26/02/04
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: 500Nitro]
      #139399 - 23/07/09 04:25 PM

Quote:


Sarg,

The weirdo deer I was referring to was actually
things like 26 point Red Stags that IMHO looked
more like Hat racks than red stags !!!!

Buy the Yanks loved them !!!!

They used to shoot 24-26 point red deer in New Zealand ....way back in the day??? Did they not. Or are you talking about some special kind of red deer with lasers for eyes or something???

You can hunt those same kind of 26 point red deer in the wild in eastern Europe - Romania, Yugoslavia, Hungary..... I dont think they have lasers either??

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

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gryphon
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #139408 - 23/07/09 07:12 PM

Rubbish! very few deer of any quality were shot in NZ way back WITH 24-26 point heads..try this link..its from the Otago region...might just help you out with some NZ trophy heads...natural ones that is!


http://www.wildhunts.co.nz/index.php...d=134&Itemid=1

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kamilaroi
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: gryphon]
      #139409 - 23/07/09 08:02 PM

Covered in part as a prior post. (fastest cheque book wins)

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Matt_Graham
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: gryphon]
      #139438 - 24/07/09 09:26 AM

Quote:

Rubbish! very few deer of any quality were shot in NZ way back WITH 24-26 point heads..try this link..its from the Otago region...might just help you out with some NZ trophy heads...natural ones that is!


http://www.wildhunts.co.nz/index.php...d=134&Itemid=1

Your link didnt work - this might be better...
Otago Heads

OK maybe 24-26 is over the top but they arent exactly running around everywhere (in game parks either) today.

Wonder what size heads were taken in other areas?

I can understand the idea of keeping the old genetics separate from the modern European blood but I think NZ as a whole will be a better polace in the future with that infusion of new blood into some of the wild herds. Lord knows those herds need all the help they can get - as the govt of the day is adament that they be destroyed...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #139456 - 24/07/09 03:14 PM

I remember when a 16-point stag in NZ was regarded as a huge trophy and made news in magazines in Australia. When guys used to hunt the mountains on foot, starting before dawn and returning after dusk, climbing up and then down again.

Nowadays the awful monstrosities out of gene and supplement fed stags just look totally un-natural.

I know which "trophy" I would prefer on my wall.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: NitroX]
      #139504 - 25/07/09 01:31 PM

I had the chap who shot the X breed around the other night , as he heard I thought it was a X , I was talking to his Father in law , but told him not to tell him , as I didn't want to rain on his parade ,well he told him any way , turns out he had similar thoughts , I also told him it is more of a trophy as a Red X Samber than a 228Ds Samber stag (I have 1 just under & 2 over this size) which would be more common than a Red cross , as Flock House spent thousands trying to do it & only once were they successful !
He did say it was heard roaring in the Samber honking tone , I have been told this before from the
Northern herd (did not believe it), which share the same habitat with Reds , so interaction could be more frequent !

I may ask for some pics next time we meet .

On the size of Red Trophies , well 19 to 25 pionters were around from 1910 to the 1950's
they may not be common , but the blood line was here !

The NZ farmed heads now have even more large headed blood lines & selective breeding for 40 years also , added with good minerals (may be added to pasture as well) & feed , no droughts to speak of .

No trophy breeder that I know of adds anything else , no steriods or genetic splicing going on, LoL !

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Samber X Red Stag ! ! [Re: Sarg]
      #139651 - 27/07/09 03:56 PM

Quote:

No trophy breeder that I know of adds anything else , no steriods or genetic splicing going on, LoL !



Yes quality feed, feed additives plus selective breeding is the way.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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