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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 857
Loc: France
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: lancaster]
      #350844 - 26/02/21 06:47 AM

Very reassuring to see that no-one reinvented the wheel when it came to designating the most popular European calibres i.e. 6,5x55, 6,5x57 & 6,5x57R, 7x57 & 7x57R, 7x64 & 7x65R, .300H&H, 8x57JS & 8x57JRS, 8x68S, 9x3x62 & 9,3x74R, 9,3x64, and 10,75x68; the junior of which, the 8x68S, dates back to 1939 or 1940! Ballistics were good from start, end-of-line users did not succumb to marketing temptation for new products each year and as already reminded above by Joël Dorléac "it's not the arrow that kills, it's the archer".
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 2807
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: Louis]
      #350845 - 26/02/21 07:40 AM

Quote:

Very reassuring to see that no-one reinvented the wheel when it came to designating the most popular European calibres i.e. 6,5x55, 6,5x57 & 6,5x57R, 7x57 & 7x57R, 7x64 & 7x65R, .300H&H, 8x57JS & 8x57JRS, 8x68S, 9x3x62 & 9,3x74R, 9,3x64, and 10,75x68; the junior of which, the 8x68S, dates back to 1939 or 1940! Ballistics were good from start, end-of-line users did not succumb to marketing temptation for new products each year and as already reminded above by Joël Dorléac "it's not the arrow that kills, it's the archer".
Louis




Louis,
I thought the 300H&H was a British development - does it have a metric equivalent or perhaps I'm wrong???
I suppose imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but virtual parallel developments like the .257 Roberts & 280 Remington in its many guises where very close to the 6.5x55 & 7x64 overall - half a world away.
It just goes to show how well thought out all these cartridges are for taking similar game & over what range these were designed for. All are very classy cartridges in their own right & really it comes down to more about personal preference for the game to be taken.

But yes Mr D's comment really nails it, all else being equal it really is up to the 'archer' to bring home the bacon so to speak!


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Louis
.375 member


Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 857
Loc: France
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: 93x64mm]
      #350846 - 26/02/21 08:22 AM

9,3x64,
I have included the .300H&H within the European hunting calibres as, even if not using the metric system, the British Isles are geographically part of the European Continent. Geography recognises seven continents: Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Australia, Europe, North America and South America, and not an eighth one that would be the British Isles; I often tease my British work colleagues about this undisputed fact and - even if their sense of humour is great, they don't always like it. I realise that I have forgotten the .375H&H in my above list; the Brits have produced in the early XX Century a wealth of good hunting calibres but I have only listed the ones that are still more or less widely used nowadays.
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 2807
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: Louis]
      #350858 - 26/02/21 03:45 PM

All good Louis, I suspected that but the English are somewhat (very) sensitive when it comes to things like being lumbered in with someone else. Us Aussies like to stick it to our Pommy mates every now & then - it gets reciprocated back just as well, especially with their stiff upper lip & all too!

Edited by 93x64mm (26/02/21 03:46 PM)


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MickoC
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Reged: 19/11/09
Posts: 33
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: 93x64mm]
      #350895 - 27/02/21 09:49 PM

The 6mm Remington and the 257 Roberts both originate from the 57mm case

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 14328
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: MickoC]
      #350899 - 28/02/21 01:46 AM

My first was .303 British..


Like my model 70 in 300H&H

470 Nitro in a WR

Finally 6.5x55

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 33298
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: Louis]
      #350920 - 28/02/21 03:14 PM

Quote:

Very reassuring to see that no-one reinvented the wheel when it came to designating the most popular European calibres i.e. 6,5x55, 6,5x57 & 6,5x57R, 7x57 & 7x57R, 7x64 & 7x65R, .300H&H, 8x57JS & 8x57JRS, 8x68S, 9x3x62 & 9,3x74R, 9,3x64, and 10,75x68; the junior of which, the 8x68S, dates back to 1939 or 1940! Ballistics were good from start, end-of-line users did not succumb to marketing temptation for new products each year and as already reminded above by Joël Dorléac "it's not the arrow that kills, it's the archer".
Louis




.303 British was definitely missing from that list!

However I really wonder how many Brits still shoot them?! One rarely if ever hears it mentioned by Brits for sporting use???!!!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: 93x64mm]
      #350925 - 28/02/21 03:39 PM

Quote:

All good Louis, I suspected that but the English are somewhat (very) sensitive when it comes to things like being lumbered in with someone else. Us Aussies like to stick it to our Pommy mates every now & then - it gets reciprocated back just as well, especially with their stiff upper lip & all too!




Yep, when living in the UK, we used to talk about "going to Europe" for our holidays.

Yes, the British Isles are geographically part of Europe but the mentality is not necessarily that way.

Hel;, recently they wanted to try to resurrect the old British Commonwealth again with Brexit, before Boris sold out again with excessive EU concessions.

I had friends from all over the world, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, Czech, Denmark, Sweden, Norway among others in Britain and some especially the French or Germans got peeved when saying "going to Europe" across the channel, especially when visiting them in their own countries. Had to change to saying "continental Europe".

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Louis
.375 member


Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 857
Loc: France
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: NitroX]
      #350948 - 01/03/21 04:28 AM

Dear 9,3x64 and All. Thank you for understanding that my comments were a bit provocative, but not on the wrong side of the meaning, and I do praise your sense of humour!
Unless referring to nationality each time one mentions a European calibre e.g. a British one, a German one, an Swedish one, etc. I think that on a wider European scale (including the British Isles of course) one should therefore refer to two distinct categories i.e. Imperial and Metric ones when talking about European calibres. However I do not intend to turn that mole hill issue into a mountain and things won't probably change!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: Louis]
      #350988 - 01/03/21 03:28 PM

Quote:

Dear 9,3x64 and All. Thank you for understanding that my comments were a bit provocative, but not on the wrong side of the meaning, and I do praise your sense of humour!
Unless referring to nationality each time one mentions a European calibre e.g. a British one, a German one, an Swedish one, etc. I think that on a wider European scale (including the British Isles of course) one should therefore refer to two distinct categories i.e. Imperial and Metric ones when talking about European calibres. However I do not intend to turn that mole hill issue into a mountain and things won't probably change!
Louis




OK Louis, if you are truly sorry, I want to see you using a .303 for all your hunting next season.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: NitroX]
      #350989 - 01/03/21 03:32 PM

On French hunting guns use, one poster on a facebook group, who might be a member here (?), made a comment that most of his rifles were considered unusual and excessive in France. He listed a number of bigger bores, starting maybe with 9.3 mm's and up.

He stated the vast majority of French hunters use the 12-bore shotguns, including for driven game and deer, presumably driven boar hunting.

Is this true?

Would using say a 9.3x62 for a driven boar hunt in a French forest be considered over gunned by the average hunter participating?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 850
Loc: France /Germany
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: NitroX]
      #350995 - 01/03/21 06:14 PM

France is a relatively large country in Europe with very different regions in terms of landscape and traditions. That is why there are also very large differences in terms of hunting.

In the east of France, like in Germany, one hunted mainly with bolt action rifles or combined guns. In other parts of France, there has been more hunting with shotgun, but the bolt action rifles are also being used nowadays more and more.

As far as the caliber is concerned, the cartridges 9,3x62 or 9,3x74R for example, were and still are often in use and are not regarded as over gunned. Bigger is extremely rare and there is no need to use. The cartridge 10,75x68 that I once named is extremely rare and in my area in Germany where I hunt an exception and just because of an gunmaker in the region who made a few rifles of that caliber.


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DORLEAC
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Reged: 22/01/12
Posts: 423
Loc: Perpignan, France
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: grandveneur]
      #351007 - 02/03/21 03:37 AM

I live and hunt in the southernmost region of France and of course our practice and our territory has nothing in common with those of the northeast of our country.
If until the 1970s the majority of big game hunters used shotguns - with the notable exception of mountain hunters, devoted to center fire rifles - this has changed radically since then and it is extremely rare to meet a big game hunter holding a scattergun, except maybe sometimes the one who leads the dogs.
The rifles are divided into three categories: semi auto like Browning Bar and the like, bolt action, with a predominance of Blaser R93/R8 or Merkel Helix, and finally double rifles generally chambered in 7x65R, 8x57JRS or 9.3x74R.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: Louis]
      #351036 - 02/03/21 10:58 AM

Quote:

Dear 9,3x64 and All. Thank you for understanding that my comments were a bit provocative, but not on the wrong side of the meaning, and I do praise your sense of humour!
Unless referring to nationality each time one mentions a European calibre e.g. a British one, a German one, an Swedish one, etc. I think that on a wider European scale (including the British Isles of course) one should therefore refer to two distinct categories i.e. Imperial and Metric ones when talking about European calibres. However I do not intend to turn that mole hill issue into a mountain and things won't probably change!
Louis




Louis, the Imperial/metric is a very good way to differentiate.


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Louis
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Reged: 13/05/15
Posts: 857
Loc: France
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: Rule303]
      #351046 - 02/03/21 07:56 PM

Nitrox, I would in principle not have any issue of taking-up the challenge and hunt a full season with a .303, a good hunting calibre indeed; however this shan't happen unfortunately as this would first mean adding another rifle to the rack at a time when I start thinking of thinning my stock!
Louis

--------------------
"Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"


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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 193
Loc: Scotland
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: lancaster]
      #353720 - 24/05/21 06:02 PM

Personally I use the 7x57 and 7x65r and think they are perfect for most European hunting. I would add the 7x64. Not much recoil, but than enough energy down range with good bullets.

But here in the UK 3 cartridges out sell all others by a long way:

243 Win - perfect for Roe, Mintjac and Fallow and good enough for Red Deer. Probably out sells all others combined. It’s the min required for deer and the Police Firearms Licencing like minimums and its most will allow as a first rifle. Also works well as a foxing rifle.

270 win - seen as the big rifle. Its the goto calibre for Scottish open mountain type stalking. And was the standard forestry rifle.

308 Win - the all rounder, and now standard for most commercial contractors and many stalkers. Also used as a range gun. And as lead free becomes more used it will be more used.


6.5CM is becoming popular and suspect may overtake 243 and 308 especially as non toxic becomes the norm.


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 850
Loc: France /Germany
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: HeymSR20]
      #353723 - 25/05/21 01:57 AM

Quote:

Personally I use the 7x57 and 7x65r and think they are perfect for most European hunting. I would add the 7x64. Not much recoil, but than enough energy down range with good bullets.

But here in the UK 3 cartridges out sell all others by a long way:

243 Win - perfect for Roe, Mintjac and Fallow and good enough for Red Deer. Probably out sells all others combined. It’s the min required for deer and the Police Firearms Licencing like minimums and its most will allow as a first rifle. Also works well as a foxing rifle.

270 win - seen as the big rifle. Its the goto calibre for Scottish open mountain type stalking. And was the standard forestry rifle.

308 Win - the all rounder, and now standard for most commercial contractors and many stalkers. Also used as a range gun. And as lead free becomes more used it will be more used.


6.5CM is becoming popular and suspect may overtake 243 and 308 especially as non toxic becomes the norm.




Sure, enough for the game, and you are not over-gunned.

I own an Lloyd rifle caliber 7mm Rem Mag. At some point the hunters also used stronger cartridges for deer hunting in Scotland.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: grandveneur]
      #353732 - 25/05/21 01:09 PM

Indeed, a 6.5x55 with various Norma factory loads, or equivalent handloads, will handle all of it as well.
They work just fine on moose & elk here, with 156gr. Norma factory or 160gr. handloads, both around 2,500fps.
I am sure a 6.5x54 would be just about as effective.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Schauckis
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Reged: 17/07/07
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Loc: Finland
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: lancaster]
      #357418 - 19/10/21 04:12 AM

Well - do you mean popular in Europe or popular European calibers?
Probably the #1 in use or becoming it is the .308. In Finlabd, it holds an about 70% market share.

As for European, in the Nordic countries the 6,5x55 is very popular.
I see much less 9,3x74R. Much more common - esp. for bear - is the 9,3x62.
I have only ever seen four 8x57 in use. It's making a little comeback, I think, with bear and wild boar increasing in numbers. It's a good, effective, mild-recoil medium (or even heavy).
The 7,62x53R is becoming rarer. Of course, no new guns are made for it save the Baikal single shot. Pity, it'd be excellent in break-open guns.
In Central Europe I believe you see a lot of 7x64 and 7x65R, not so in Finland. I know of two including mine.

To see bigger than 9,3x62 is rare and there the top gun is the .375 H&H.

For smaller, the .222 is popular. Many guns are stamped 5,7x43 instead.
But I believe the .223 is becoming more common....

- Lars/Finland

--------------------
A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: Marrakai]
      #357464 - 20/10/21 04:12 PM

Quote:

Funny this. Many of the most popular European cartridges have a British monica:

6.5x53R = .256 Mannlicher
6.5x54 = .256 Mannlicher-Schoenauer
7x57 = .275 Rigby
9.5 Mannlicher = .375 NE Rimless
10.75x73 = .404 Jeffery
etc etc

The stand-alones are the 8mm Mauser and the 9.3x62 (9.3x74R).

So within my limited rules, they win!




Funny. Many Australians including myself, and many Britishers too, refer the Britain AND Europe.

I remember when living in London, saying "we are going to Europe for the holiday." A French friend replied "what do you mean, going TO Europe?!"



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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9.3x57
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Reged: 22/04/07
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Loc: Idaho
Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: NitroX]
      #357467 - 20/10/21 11:59 PM

Very interesting thread.

6.5x55 and 9.3x62 here would serve me well to the End. As far as those go, we now have among us five 6.5x55 {Howa, Ruger, SAKO} and two 9.3x62 rifles {Sauer, CZ}. That pretty much covers everything I need a rifle for.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Daryl_S
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Re: Your favourite or most popular European hunting calibre [Re: 9.3x57]
      #357479 - 21/10/21 03:21 AM

I've a couple 6.5x55's, a Swedish M38 and a Swedish Varberger, along with a couple 9.3x62's, one an Oberndorf Sporter and one I put together on a Mark 10 Mauser action with a new Zastov bl.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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