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Checkman
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Reged: 15/03/08
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Loc: Idaho
British Army going with Glock 17
      #223969 - 20/01/13 05:34 PM

Not being political here. I just learned that after almost sixty years of going with the Browning High Power the British Army is switching over to the Glock 17. Interesting. It isn't a huge purchase. I believe it's 25,000 handguns plus the magazines, holsters etc. Anyway the BHP had been in the Brit's inventory for a long time. Not changing calibers of course, but I thought some might find this interesting. Once again this time I'm not involving politics.

They said one of the big selling points was that the soldiers can safely carry one in the chamber, pull it out of the holster and start to shoot it without having to hit a safety lever or rack the slide. Evidently they've had some unpleasent experiences in Afghanistan


Edited by Checkman (20/01/13 05:46 PM)


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Rule303
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Checkman]
      #223973 - 20/01/13 10:14 PM

The RAAF went with the Glock a few years ago now because their testing showed them to be, amongst other things, Pilot and Adgie(Airfield Defence Guard) proof. I watched an ADG testing one they had had problems with. When I aske dif that was unusual he said that apart from changing the springs they had done nothing to the pistol. As it was in the first group to come into Aust. for testing they had put close to 3 Million rounds through it. Thats a lot of rounds.

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Oldbrit
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Rule303]
      #223978 - 20/01/13 11:20 PM

This was covered on the BBC news with the usual errors.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20978842

"The pistols are most effective at a range of between 10 and 25 metres, and the Glock 17 is lighter, more accurate and its magazines can carry more bullets than the Browning it replaces, according to the trials team."

I wish they'd find out that the word "bullets" isn't synonymous with cartridges and I wonder why the Glock is not at it's most effective at ranges of less than 10 metres? I would have thought that sticking it up someone's nose and pulling the trigger would be fairly effective.


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Checkman
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Oldbrit]
      #223981 - 20/01/13 11:45 PM

The article I read described the Browning as "clunky". I've always thought that the BHP is a very sleek and compact pistol design. More slender than the Glock for certain.

My duty sidearm is the Glock 19 and I carry the Glock 26 as my off-duty piece. I am very fond of revolvers and the Glock is not the last word in pistols. However it is a very easy pistol to teach to officers who are not shooters (I am a firearms instructer with my agency). It is an easy design to maintain and it very reliable and not picky about ammunition.

When we transitioned to the Glock pistol in 2006 it was a very easy transition. Several of our officers ,who are rather indifferent about shooting, did not have any difficulty with the transition and we actually saw the qualification scores improve.

For what it is the Glock is a success. I have no complaints with it.

Edited by Checkman (20/01/13 11:51 PM)


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Ripp
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Checkman]
      #223995 - 21/01/13 04:29 AM

I have several Glocks,..and have to say for myself..don't find them the nicest fit in my hand..prefer the 1911 frame to the glock and mostly all others..but all my glocks are very accurate..and have never had a misfunction...

Have them in a 9mm, 40s&w and a 10mm....


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (21/01/13 09:36 AM)


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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
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Loc: southern England
Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Ripp]
      #224015 - 21/01/13 09:33 AM

I had a Browning Hi-Power Target model for 15 years until the pistol ban here in the UK in 1996. I much prefer it to Colt 1911 types and the S&W 39/ 59, which were the competition in 1981.

I did hamdle a Glock at the London Proof House a few months ago, and it did feel top-heavy, like the 39. However the magazine was empty.

A friend's son is currently in Afghanistan and has been issued with a Hi-Power / GP35. It has no finish at all on it, and rattles, so I am glad they are getting some new kit.


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Checkman
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: HistoricBore]
      #224031 - 21/01/13 01:29 PM

Yes the Glock design is top heavy without a loaded magazine in it. The British BHP's sound liek the 1911A1 pistol that I was issued in 1988 when I was a armor crewmember. It also rattled and was essentially "in the white". It still worked, but you could tell it was a forty (+) year old pistol at that time. One that had been used hard.

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Checkman
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Checkman]
      #224032 - 21/01/13 01:49 PM

The Glock design works. It's a utilitarian pistol designed to be used by those who aren't gun people and also designed to function under bad conditions.

I think that sometimes those of us who are immersed in the gun culture (which I think is very true for those who frequent this forum) tend to forget that not everyone is that interested in firearms, but they need a firearm because of the their work or for protection. They don't want to learn how to work a 1911A1 or a BHP or even a Beretta 92 (which by the way is a pistol that I actually like). They want a simple and easy to operate pistol or revolver (S&W Model 10 for example) that will go bang when they press the trigger.

I have two Glocks and that is probably all I will ever own. I keep toying with the idea of buying a Glock 35 or a Glock 17 just because, but then I find a real nice S&W Model of 1899 M&P (exposed ejector rod) a K-38 4 screw or a pre-war Colt Officer's Model Target or a S&W Model 745. Those I want and the money I have saved up for the Glock just goes to something else I really want. So I've conluded that my two Glocks are strictly tools to me and that is that.

Anyway that's what a Glock pistol is to me. A good solid reliable tool which I use and I have seen work for others.

Meanwhile I have more money saved up an a line on real nice Colt Offical Police with a 4" heavy barrel. Unusual and something that I want in my collection. So no Glock 17 this time either. Oh well.


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birdwatcher
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Checkman]
      #224045 - 21/01/13 04:51 PM

I still carry the inglis browning hipower had it in Afghanistan,Canada built them for the Commonwealth during ww2 Canada,Australia,NZ,Rhodesia, South Africa,UK etc. the one i have at work is dated 1944 crude iron sites but still a straight shooter. if it was good enough for the Canadian lumber jacks who stormed Normandy its good enough for me. how ever the Canadian army does have sig sauers used by our mp's and special forces us infantry guys get what we get. Oddly enough The British soldiers I worked with also carried sig p226 pistols. maybe they dont like the change in trigger pressure between the first and subsequent shots.

Neil

Edited by birdwatcher (21/01/13 05:09 PM)


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ErikDAdministrator
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: birdwatcher]
      #224053 - 21/01/13 07:31 PM

It is a good, reliable choice for a duty pistol. They have been used over here for over 2 decades with virtually no problems. The military has however begun to find out that for some users a 45acp would be preferable.

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Rule303
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: ErikD]
      #224056 - 21/01/13 08:30 PM

Standard issue 1911, BHP and Glocks have one thing in common. They rattle, means they have combat tolerances. Helps make them reliable.

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lancaster
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Rule303]
      #224076 - 22/01/13 03:24 AM

what will happen with the old high powers?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: lancaster]
      #224081 - 22/01/13 05:25 AM

Hi Checkman
Funny you should say that about Colt Officer's Model Target - I now own one here in the UK, even with its pistol prohibition. It is a .38 Special with heavy barrel and the lightest trigger you could imagine. It keeps my Colt Woodsman Target 6" and .38/200 Enfield company in a locked armoury at Bisley. Nine times a year we are allowed in to shoot them and clean them, then they unlock the door and we can go home, but without the pistols. It is the Heritage exemption, and actually works well - great crowd of fellow owners.


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Oldbrit
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: HistoricBore]
      #224085 - 22/01/13 06:10 AM

Quote:

It is the Heritage exemption, and actually works well...




I hope what you intended to write was that the Heritage Exemption system is an atrocious travesty of our rights forced on us by a spiteful and overbearing government who was determined to use British shooters as scapegoats for its own failings.

Also, perhaps you meant that the Heritage Shooting centres (I stand to be corrected but I think there may be three of them in the whole of Great Britain) just about work for those who live close enough to use them but are otherwise totally useless for those, like me, who don’t.

And perhaps you meant to add that they also don’t apply to anyone who wants to shoot anything that is not regarded as a “heritage” pistol or revolver. So again they are useless to the vast majority of pistol shooters who lost their guns at the time of the great confiscation.

So, allowing for the appalling circumstances in which legitimate shooters find themselves, the system “works well” but then that must be a meaning of the term “works well” that I haven’t come across before.

Is that what you meant to say?

Bitter? Me? You’re bloody right I am.


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HistoricBore
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Oldbrit]
      #224093 - 22/01/13 10:19 AM

Broadly, that is indeed what I meant to write. The bit about "works well" only applies to the other pistol shooters who gather there.

I think there may be five centres now, with a new one near Hastings, Kent, but indeed most of the country's shooters find it all very unsatisfactory.


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Oldbrit
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: HistoricBore]
      #224118 - 22/01/13 07:14 PM

HistoricBore...

Sorry, I didn't mean what I wrote on a personal level but even after this time it still makes me angy.

Good for you for keeping some form of pistol shooting alive in GB. I try to do my bit by shooting a Ruger Old Army (front stuffer pistols and revolvers are still allowed in GB).

As a point of interest, I use Great Britain instead of United Kingdom because in Northern Ireland, the Isle of Mann and the Channel Islands, all of which have their own legislatures, pistol shooting is still allowed. Nobody said laws like the pistol ban, made by rogues for the spurious comfort of fools, have to make sense. As a classic example I can have the .45 six shot Old Army but not a .22 single shot pistol.


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Checkman
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Reged: 15/03/08
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: HistoricBore]
      #224168 - 23/01/13 01:07 PM

Quote:

Hi Checkman
Funny you should say that about Colt Officer's Model Target - I now own one here in the UK, even with its pistol prohibition. It is a .38 Special with heavy barrel and the lightest trigger you could imagine. It keeps my Colt Woodsman Target 6" and .38/200 Enfield company in a locked armoury at Bisley. Nine times a year we are allowed in to shoot them and clean them, then they unlock the door and we can go home, but without the pistols. It is the Heritage exemption, and actually works well - great crowd of fellow owners.




well I think the system now in place in Great Britain sounds horrible, but nevertheless it's good to hear from another fan of the Colt OMT. A photo.



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HistoricBore
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Checkman]
      #224199 - 24/01/13 02:39 AM

That's the one! I have a Tyler T-grip adaptor fitted to mine, and also a set of Pachmeyer rubber grips, which raise my scores (oops, sorry, not allowed to shoot for score, just research), but I prefer the original look. My trigger has a SA pull of about a pound, and needs Federal primers, but is brilliant, really. Serial number is 557xxx.
When I am allowed to see it again in March I will say hello for you...


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albertan
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Reged: 13/06/06
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: HistoricBore]
      #224237 - 24/01/13 06:44 PM

My favourite 9 mm pistols are the CZ and the Sig. In Western Canada (not the coast) polymer pistols are not the cat's meow at 30 below. Plastic doesn't like extreme cold. I have also found that aluminium framed pistols sometimes don't work at extreme cold due to the difference in thermal contraction rates between steel and aluminium.

"I make plastic pistols for plastic soldiers". Gaston Glock.


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HistoricBore
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: albertan]
      #224244 - 24/01/13 11:11 PM

Interesting that the British air crew ( as in Prince Harry) Special forces etc. are issued with the SIG. I suppose they are more expensive to make than moulding a Glock.

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Checkman
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: HistoricBore]
      #224251 - 25/01/13 02:07 AM

Quote:

That's the one! I have a Tyler T-grip adaptor fitted to mine, and also a set of Pachmeyer rubber grips, which raise my scores (oops, sorry, not allowed to shoot for score, just research), but I prefer the original look. My trigger has a SA pull of about a pound, and needs Federal primers, but is brilliant, really. Serial number is 557xxx.
When I am allowed to see it again in March I will say hello for you...




Well at least yours is still intact and hasn't been crushed and melted down. That's something. It is an excellent target revolver. I was amazed by the trigger pull on it. When I found mine I didn't have enough funds in my account to purchase it. But I did own one of the new Winchester 1895 rifles in 30-06. A nice rifle, but a rifle that I had not even fired in seven years. A rifle that I had wanted at the time, but had come to realize that it wasn't really my cup of tea. So I sold it to a sporting good store called Cabelas. I then had enough money to purchase the Officer Model Target as well as a Colt Trooper in .38 Special.

Both of those revolvers I have taken to the range several times since I purchased them. I don't regret selling the Winchester at all.



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birdwatcher
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: Checkman]
      #224343 - 27/01/13 01:24 AM

thats a very nice revolver, i regret selling my ruger gp100 a few years back I shoot my dad's s&w 686 when ever i can, wheel guns are the best powerful accurate and reliable. in a combat situation if a round fails to go off just pull the trigger again....bang,bang,click,bang,click,click,bang...LOL

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Scrumbag
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Reged: 19/01/13
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Re: British Army going with Glock 17 [Re: birdwatcher]
      #224367 - 27/01/13 08:34 AM

Revolvers are fun. I'm sad the Brits didn't use the P226. Been purchased as an urgent procurement in Afghan as I understand it.

ATB,

Scrummy

--------------------
98s: 9.3x62 & 7x64
.22s: Browning SA-22 & FN Trombone
Short-jobs: Sig P226 9mm, S&W25 .45 Colt, Colt Woodsman, S&W17


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