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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Greener Police Gun - take down
      #374765 - 04/03/23 05:30 AM

there is a police gun in 12/70 on egun, the lever on the left side maybe for the take down action
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=19041870

is this made original by the factory and how does it work? is it simpe to make a second barrel (this time rifled) and fit it into the take down action?

















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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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dracb
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: lancaster]
      #374768 - 04/03/23 06:31 AM

Lancaster,
Don't those Greener police shotguns have a fork shaped firing pin that requires a unique 12 bore cartridge?

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"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are now outnumbered by those who vote for a living."

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lancaster
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: dracb]
      #374769 - 04/03/23 07:02 AM

its my understanding that there were 3 different caliber for original greener police guns: 12 ga with 2,5"/65 mm long case

14 ga to make it harder for native freedom figther/terrorist to get ammo for the gun
I know this very well because had once a lot of this 14 ga brass I changed for an early black powder double gun. the rim was to thick to get it into the camber so I turn it down to 14 ga CIP measurments

the 12/14 special case with the groove in the base

because this gun here is proofed for the 2 3/4" /70 mm long case I thought this must be a factory made sporting rifle.

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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lancaster
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: lancaster]
      #374770 - 04/03/23 07:07 AM

looks like the common 12 ga was using 2 3/4" longe cases

http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/greenerpolice.html

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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kuduae
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: lancaster]
      #374776 - 04/03/23 08:37 AM

The Greener GP = general purpose shotgun was a sporting or farmer’s gun, offered until the 1970s. Though the action resembles the earlier Police – Guns, it was meant for civilian use. I once built a .45-70 rifle on a Mk1 police gun action and a Numrich barrel blank. The Mk1 had a conventional striker, without the later prongs, and a solid, unsplit receiver. The takedown GP receiver is split from below and clamps around the barrel threads by that screw with lever on the left side. I would not trust it to take higher pressure rifle loads.

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lancaster
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: kuduae]
      #374788 - 04/03/23 08:48 PM

"I would not trust it to take higher pressure rifle loads."

this is the answer I was looking for, thanks

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DoubleD
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: lancaster]
      #374798 - 05/03/23 12:24 AM

Those Greener shotgun with the split action should not be used for anything but shot guns.

Greener says do not use any of these shotguns for centerfire cartridges. The solid frames are frequently built into centerfire rifles. They are pigs. I have one on 577 2-3/4" and it a pig.

The lever take down is to remove the barrel for cleaning.

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DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (05/03/23 12:26 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: DoubleD]
      #374815 - 05/03/23 04:32 AM

thanks, I will stay away from this

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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85lc
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: lancaster]
      #374828 - 05/03/23 08:04 AM

The Martini split action was also used for 22LR and 310 Cadet TD rifles, each of ehich is a low pressure action.

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RB

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kuduae
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: 85lc]
      #374829 - 05/03/23 08:08 AM

Quote:

The solid frames are frequently built into centerfire rifles. They are pigs. I have one on 577 2-3/4" and it a pig.


My Greener Martini in.45-70 works perfectly. Maybe you ask too much of it with the outsized .577 2-3/4” cartridge?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: kuduae]
      #374831 - 05/03/23 08:23 AM

I think one of the local BGRC guys has a greener or martini in a large NE chambering. I think .577.

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John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: NitroX]
      #374833 - 05/03/23 08:24 AM

Would a rifled 12-bore barrel work?

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John aka NitroX

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Edited by NitroX (05/03/23 08:06 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: 85lc]
      #374834 - 05/03/23 08:25 AM

Quote:

The Martini split action was also used for 22LR and 310 Cadet TD rifles, each of which is a low pressure action.


I have one of those, currently in .17HMR.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DoubleD
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: DarylS]
      #374851 - 06/03/23 12:34 AM

The Greener Shotgun split action referenced are the large Greener EG /GP style actions. They are big, heavy and ugly, like a pig, caliber irrelevant. Can't say I have ever seen one in .22lr or .310 Cadet. But that simply means I haven't seen one. I have several of these and have had others in this larger action and all have been ugly as pigs.

Now the standard size action like those of a size like the British Military Martini, these can be built into a very nice looking gun. Many a fine looking sporting rifle have been built on this size action. Three basic shapes are common. The standard slope back, the Mk IV cutdown back and the Francotte pattern round notch back style. Sporterizing of the military guns results in some very nice looking guns, any any number of chamberings. The commercial patterns built from scratch as dedicated sporting rifles are the most attractive. The Francotte style the nicest. A number of these military Martini's were converted to .22 LR for a target shooting movement in UK. Pigs in this group exist due to inapt "basement gun butchery"

Several years ago I acquired a MK IV style sporting rifle. It is the only one I have seen. It does not appear to be a sporterized military gun. Some of the internals have military inspection marks as was common in the times. But the action bears a commercial mark.

Then there is thesmall Martini action, often referred to as the Cadet. Mostly in Francotte pattern and a mainstay of BSA. Others also built on this Francotte Martini action-Westley Richard for example. Primary calibers .22 and .310. But others also. Most notable in the Cadet full stock version. But also very popular as a target rifle, and made as a sporting rifle. The cadet version is very often sporterized, sometime well done but also often butchered. There also are miniature Martini Henry actions version. I have never been able to get my hand on one of these.

Daryl I would guess yours is a Small Francotte action, not a Greener Shotgun action.

I shoot my 577 2-3/4 Greenr and I am glad it is a big heavy pig. I like this gun. I tried to build it glamorous, but a pig in lipstick is still a pig.

Edited by DoubleD (06/03/23 01:10 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: DoubleD]
      #374860 - 06/03/23 05:21 AM

don't want to argue with you but have seen some sporter build from original police guns that were not so bad looking. I got the impression its possible to make them at least acceptable.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
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Marrakai
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: lancaster]
      #374890 - 07/03/23 12:11 AM

Not meaning to be contrary here, but there was a cased pair of London Guns retailed 12-bore rifles on Greener GP actions that changed hands a couple of times in Australia maybe 10 to 15 years ago. Google Images is unhelpful but I remember ivory grip-caps and blue baize case-liner. Pretty sure they were featured in a thread on these forums somewhere.

There are four such rifles in regular use for the Bore Gun match at our local Big Game Rifle Club. Two were built just last year and are both on the take-down action. Those two are chambered for brass case, not sure about the other two but one is definitely rifled for round ball. The latest two shoot 680 to 750gr Fosbery projectiles at ~1100 fps all day long.

Its pretty common practice amongst BGRers Australia wide to fit fully rifled 12-bore barrels to Greener GP actions.
Yes, they can be a ponderous pig if the barrel profiler is lazy, but with a heavy breech section behind the forward hand and plenty of taper to a relatively light muzzle, they sacrifice nothing and handle just fine.

Nevertheless, what DD says is true: Graham Greener definitely says do not use any of these shotguns for centerfire cartridges.
But a lot of people have ignored that advice... !
There is at least one .577 Light Nitro Martini in Australia's Top End that started life in Nhulunbuy, and has accounted for plenty of buffalo.
A second one was in the mix before covid IIRC, but don't know whether it was the GP or a Martini Henry action.

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Marrakai
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DoubleD
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: Marrakai]
      #375011 - 10/03/23 01:46 AM

Okay I will admit not all pigs are completely ugly. Some can be made to look very presentable. But they still are pigs.

That fancy Ivory trimmed cased set Marrakai mentioned does come to mind. I had a Greener made Martini trap gun one time that was very pleasant to look at.

There are those artist who can make anything look good, and those artist are few and far between.

I have a GP shotgun that I hunt with-a purpose made hunting gun not a police gun. I also have a a GP built as a 577 2-3/4 NE that is big and heavy and is neither graceful nor elegant. It is a fun gun to shoot, however.

I only caution building centerfires on split action Greener Shotguns. Graham Greeners warning it for all of these large shotgun actions.

So I apologize to all Pigmen for fat shaming your animals.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (10/03/23 01:49 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: DoubleD]
      #375017 - 10/03/23 06:24 AM



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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: lancaster]
      #375018 - 10/03/23 07:23 AM

If anyone knows Martinis its you DoubleD!
I accept your apology for shaming my 577-450 pig, took me years to get a fair one, its definitely 'SOLID' but I do have a soft spot for the old warhorse.
Different strokes for different folks I say.
If we all liked the same things then she'd be a boring old world

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DoubleD
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: 93x64mm]
      #375041 - 10/03/23 11:39 PM

Wait a minute.

I never said I didn't like them.

I said most are ugly.

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DoubleD
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Re: Greener Police Gun - take down [Re: DoubleD]
      #375042 - 11/03/23 02:08 AM

Quote:

Wait a minute.

I never said I didn't like them.

I said most are ugly.



Kinda like what Matt Quigley said...

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