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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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NitroXAdministrator
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The .458 Win Mag in the AR
      #306581 - 18/10/17 03:41 PM

http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear-accessories/nemo-omen-458/

The Biggest AR Ever: NEMO OMEN .458 Winchester Magnum
by Mike Schoby | October 27th, 2014




It is no secret I like big-bore rifles. I also like ARs. So far, these two obsessions have been rather mutually exclusive. In an attempt to eke more horsepower out of the AR platform, I was an early adopter of the 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCOM, and the .338 Federal in my Elmer Keith-like obsession for a powerful AR. And while all of these calibers have their niches, I always lusted for more. Enter NEMO.

Known for precision, military-tough arms, NEMO rocked the shooting world two years ago by introducing the TiONE (an all titanium one-off AR designed to showcase their manufacturing capabilities) followed by a magnum-sized AR action large enough to handle the .300 Win. Mag. They fittingly named it the OMEN.

After seeing this extra-large action, my wheels began to turn. So when I met Clint Walker, NEMO’s cofounder, I posed the question that had been bouncing around my cluttered brain: “Why not use an OMEN action to build a .458 Win. Mag.?”

Unlike my fantasy approach to firearm manufacturing, NEMO bases its product development decisions on a rifle’s usefulness for military operators.

Clint’s simple and very valid response was, “Why?”

“Why? Why not? Who wouldn’t want a 10-shot semiauto .458 Win. Mag?” I asked. “Hell, man, every red-blooded Texan would buy at least two—one for his pickup and one for his wife’s SUV.”

I joked, but at the same time was more than half serious. If I wanted one, there had to be some other crazy rednecks who would feel the same.

nemo_458_2In all seriousness, a .458 Win. Mag. AR would have some serious advantages in the hunting world. The NEMO offers a capacity of more than twice its nearest bolt-action competitor, piston-driven reliability, reduced gas-operated recoil, and durability that could stand up to the harshest hunting conditions.

Bear, moose, and nilgai hunters would swoon. Alaskan guides who want the ultimate brown bear backup rifle would welcome the offering. While unconventional for an African safari, I can’t think of a more effective Cape buffalo rifle, though getting a semiauto into most African countries can run the gamut from problematic to impossible.

After thinking it over, Walker put me in touch with Josh Sonju, NEMO’s cofounder and vice president of research and development.

“Yes, I think we could do that,” he said. “I hunt with ARs all the time and built an OMEN in .338 Win. Mag., so a .458 Win. Mag. shouldn’t be a problem.”

Several months later, I received the gun. I would like to say it’s a one-off, but Josh was bitten by the big-bore bug (I knew there were other like-minded rednecks out there) and built a second for himself.

The Specs
Tipping the scales at 12.4 pounds, this is no small rifle. Then again, when shot-putting 500-grain slugs downrange at 2,090 fps, I am not a fan of light rifles anyway. More importantly, this rifle balances well. Even with a magazine loaded with 10 rounds of Federal 500- grain Fusion and an Aimpoint PRO atop for a total combined weight of 14.5 pounds, it still balances comfortably and directly in the hands.

nemo_458_4The 18.5-inch 416 stainless barrel with its black Cerakote is impervious to harsh conditions. The upper and lower receivers are both hard anodized tan with black accents.

Shooting The Beast
The rifle was even more impressive on the range. Most onlookers said, “I bet this will knock your fillings out,” but most of those guys have never shot a true big-bore rifle. I have shot a ton of .458 ammo through a lot of different rifles, and this one is easily the most comfortable. There are three main reasons: the large brake on the muzzle, the gas system, and the physical weight.

Conclusion
Overall, the NEMO was no surprise in the construction department. I have shot several NEMO rifles in the past, and all of them have been consistently well made. The caliber itself was a surprise. Getting a straight-walled case with pretty blunt bullets to feed in a semiauto is no easy task, but Josh modified their standard magazine followers and got it to work well.

nemo_458_3In our tests, we had minimal failure, with both Federal Fusions and Federal Premium Hydro Solids. With a little breaking in, load experimentation, and fine tuning the gas system, I believe this rifle would be as reliable as most other dangerous game offerings.

What’s next? The doors are literally wide open for NEMO and hunting ARs. Obviously, the long-range big-game crowd is covered with NEMO’s flagship .300 Win. Mag. Creating a .338 Win. Mag. is no problem, and as we have just discovered, the biggest of the Winchester Magnum family is also within the realm of possibility.

While .375 H&H is out due to its overall length, at first glance it appears that the .375 Ruger and .416 Ruger would fit inside a NEMO magazine and work within the pressure parameters just fine. Josh seems to agree, so who knows, there may be another big-game NEMO offering just over the horizon.

http://brightcove=3860902781001







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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: NitroX]
      #306582 - 18/10/17 03:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcnoFE7Dc68

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John aka NitroX

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Ripp
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: NitroX]
      #306594 - 19/10/17 12:50 AM

Would be interesting trying to get that cleared when going for a hunt in Zimbabwe..

Ripp

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Wayne59
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Ripp]
      #306609 - 19/10/17 07:20 AM

I saw and shot one of there rifles in 338 lupua magnum. It was junk. the owner sent it back for the third time and demanded his money back. Finally got a full refund. It simply would not cycle and the last time it was fired it went full auto and hurt the man shooting it. Just a bruise on his face under his eye but enough to let them know that they wanted no more of it.

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Rockdoc
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Wayne59]
      #306611 - 19/10/17 07:48 AM

At 14.5lbs someone else would be carrying it for me!

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DarylS
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rockdoc]
      #306617 - 19/10/17 11:59 AM

WHAT? That's only 2 more than my Sharps & a LOT more powerful.

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93x64mm
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: DarylS]
      #306623 - 19/10/17 07:04 PM

Even though it doesn't fall into what would be considered a 'normal' type heavy it would certain be handy for culling exercises for buffalo!

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Rule303
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Wayne59]
      #306625 - 19/10/17 08:51 PM

Quote:

I saw and shot one of there rifles in 338 lupua magnum. It was junk. the owner sent it back for the third time and demanded his money back. Finally got a full refund. It simply would not cycle and the last time it was fired it went full auto and hurt the man shooting it. Just a bruise on his face under his eye but enough to let them know that they wanted no more of it.




I would think once you get to the power levels of the lap you need to look at the same systems that run the 406 Chytec etc.


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Rell
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rule303]
      #306629 - 19/10/17 11:19 PM

Pretty sure I saw someone do a browning BAR into a 458 Win. Base was either a 338 or 300 Win.

Makes way more sense to me.

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ducmarc
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rell]
      #306637 - 20/10/17 01:07 AM

Think the bar would be a snap compared to one of these.often wondered about a big 10 gage auto for anexpress conversion.maybe a recoil gun and run black powder.lol.

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DarylS
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: ducmarc]
      #306641 - 20/10/17 03:15 AM

Rell - I also saw a Bar in .458 Winny. It was a .338 to start with, normal hunting rifle.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Carpetsahib
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rell]
      #306646 - 20/10/17 04:46 AM

Quote:

Pretty sure I saw someone do a browning BAR into a 458 Win. Base was either a 338 or 300 Win.

Makes way more sense to me.


I think it was Jack Lott. He wrote about it in Guns & Ammo - one of their special issues, if I remember correctly.

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szihn
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #306649 - 20/10/17 06:39 AM

I total weight of 11 pounds loaded is what I consider top weight to carry. I always like to carry my own rifle. So I would not be interested until they get the weight down.
As far as reliability is concerned, I'll wait and see, but I have no prejudice against an auto. The most dangerous thing on earth that can be hunted, by far, is man. I had no problem with autos for that purpose, so from the non-traditional side of things I see autos are the next step in the evolution of hunting arms. I prefer the old stuff, but that's just a personal preference. I don't try to justify my liking by telling others I have "the best" because of .... Blah blah blah..

In the late 1800s and into the turn of the century, the double rifle was considered "the best" for the hunting of dangerous game because springs breaking in firearms was not all that uncommon in that era, and a double was a single if something went wrong, whereas a single became a club.

By WW2 the M-1 Garand had proven to the arms industry that the overall reliability of a rifle was fine even if it was an auto loader. I remember reading in Hatcher's notebook (I think it was) about the test to destruction of an M-1. Fire it non-stop until it breaks. The bore and throat was worn out to a point that the bullet were striking sideways, and the gun was still going. Not only that, but it was going in a spray of water to keep it cool, but that water also washed off the lube. Lack of lube was not much of a problem. I can't remember how many thousands of rounds the M1 fired, but I am absolutely sure it was more than most doubles would fire with no breakage. The pile of brass was over 5 feet tall.

Enter the AK47 a decade later and the reliability went up even more. In fact, I'd bet the AKs are tied with any rifle ever made in history when it comes to reliability and that includes bolt actions.
To test a 10 Mausers against 10 AKs would be VERY expensive, and I doubt anyone has ever done it. But you'd have to take about 10 of each and shoot them until something broke and stopped the rifles from working in all 20 to get a realistic result from which you could make a solid conclusion.

Even the M16 (AR 15) is now quite reliable and if simply kept lubed every 500 rounds,(4 drops of oil) a good one often will fire 40,000 rounds with no jams and no breakages. In the start of the Vietnam War, I think no one would believe how reliable an M16 would someday be (and the AR15s too) but we have the evidence in front of us now, so there is no denying it anymore.

So at our current level of design, I am convinced that a good auto-loader is far more reliable than a traditional double.

Me.......I will still be using my flintlocks and my Mausers, Mannlicher and classic lever actions, because I like them more, but I will never try to tell someone that they are always going to be "better".

When they get an auto 458 to a boring degree of reliability (at least as good as a good M-1 Garand) and also get it down to 11 pounds or less I will pay attention. At 9.5 pounds I may really pay attention. But at 12-14 pounds I don't care if such a gun exists.

Heck........if weight were not important, we have auto-loading 50 BMGs now, and have had for years. Surly with a round or flat nose 750 grain, .510 or .512 solid bullet at 2800 FPS, we can't say it's not enough for dangerous game! But it's WAY to much to carry or swing easily on target. With iron sights they weigh 35-37 pounds. It's too heavy.

To me, so is a 14 pound gun, in any caliber! Once it's too heavy, heavier is not important, because --------------it's still too heavy. (huh,,,,,imagine that)

14 pounds is not as bad as the 50 BMG, but not good enough to get any interest from me. I'll be watching from the rear of this crowd.

Edited by szihn (20/10/17 06:45 AM)


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Wayne59
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: szihn]
      #306651 - 20/10/17 07:16 AM

Sorry gentlemen. I got the Nemo mixed up with a company called Bad News (most appropriately). The Nemo are really good guns.

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93x64mm
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Wayne59]
      #306654 - 20/10/17 07:29 AM

A 14lb rifle is certainly on the heavy side, but just consider some of those old 4 bore rifles - nearly 20lbs worth!
Man this AR would be a light weight for those old English hunters.
Mind you they did have gun bearers to lug the darn things around for them!


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Rule303
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rell]
      #306655 - 20/10/17 08:14 AM

Quote:

Pretty sure I saw someone do a browning BAR into a 458 Win. Base was either a 338 or 300 Win.

Makes way more sense to me.




Now you mention it, I do recall reading about one.


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Grenadier
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rule303]
      #306658 - 20/10/17 12:34 PM

Yes, it was written up in a magazine. They started with a BAR in .338 Win Mag. Apparently, it worked so well that after the article was published we never heard of it again.

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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Grenadier]
      #306659 - 20/10/17 12:39 PM

LOL

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Rule303
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Grenadier]
      #306667 - 20/10/17 06:00 PM

Quote:

Yes, it was written up in a magazine. They started with a BAR in .338 Win Mag. Apparently, it worked so well that after the article was published we never heard of it again.




I think that might be because it did work so well on a few shoulders and bridges of nose's that nobody wanted to use it.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rule303]
      #306821 - 26/10/17 06:26 AM

My Jeffery weighs 13 1/4 lbs from memory. I don't have any problems carrying that around. Yes it does feel heavy at first, but one gets used to it. And yes, the elephant hunter's bore rifle always weighed far far more. All this 11 lbs, 9 lbs, 7 lbs crap one reads nowadays ... just get on with it.

I do wonder how reliable a .458 AR15 would be.

If reliable, such a rifle would make a very good choice for elephant herd culling.

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szihn
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: NitroX]
      #306920 - 28/10/17 03:05 AM

I often make large bore rifles. I have made eighteen 8 bores, six 4 bores, and one 2 bore sporting rifle. weights from 13-22 pounds . So making and dealing with heavy guns is nothing new to me. In fact, the making of these big guns is the very reason I personally see no reason I'd ever make one or buy one over 11 pounds for my own use. If others want heavier guns that's OK. I will make one for them. Or direct them to others for sale I didn't make.

But I never will leave the USA again (I am pretty sure) and I have no animal over about 2300 pounds that will be in my future to hunt. My 375H&H is all I ever need on ANY animal and my 404 is more than I really need. My 62 cal flintlock is also all the muzzleloader I can ask for, to be used on any north American game animal.
I may make myself a 12 bore just for the fun of it, but it's also going to come in at about 11 or maybe 11.5 pounds, but in all likelihood I'll make it and just sell it.

I am making myself a 9.3X62 in the near future. I will get it down to about 9 pounds with the scope, strap and fully loaded. I am not one that worships the guns of 5 pounds, and I see no real virtue in such light weights, especially considering what they cost compared to what "advantage" they really offer.
But I see nothing over 11 pounds that offers me any advantage either.

Just my preferences


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: szihn]
      #306923 - 28/10/17 03:20 AM

Cool, please keep spreading the word. All those 12 lb plus .500 NE's and heavier .577 NE's will become more affordable to me. I'd like one of the later. Not sure what a .577 NE weight should be, have to buy some scales to decide if it is going to be too heavy or not.

As I said, cool.

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93x64mm
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rule303]
      #306926 - 28/10/17 07:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Pretty sure I saw someone do a browning BAR into a 458 Win. Base was either a 338 or 300 Win.

Makes way more sense to me.




Now you mention it, I do recall reading about one.




It was Jack Lott!
It took me a while to find, but the reference is in Big Bore Rifles - page 91!
It still didn't tame the recoil (much) but didn't have a muzzle brake either.


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Rell
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: 93x64mm]
      #306930 - 28/10/17 11:09 AM

Yes, not loosing all my marbles!

Yet.

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DoubleD
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Re: The .458 Win Mag in the AR [Re: Rell]
      #306932 - 28/10/17 11:20 AM

What does, "nemo_458_3In our tests, we had minimal failure," mean?

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