Forums.NitroExpress.com

coming back again to the "Baden Customs" patent rifle

because I think again about the SN I have for two of them of the four known to me. this model is rare and allmost nothing is generally know about it. it seems safe this rifle was in use between 18767/1877 and 1910 than sold as surplus to member of the Baden customs. its not a sporting gun but was the first and only rifle with the Dreyse patent action made in greater numbers. serial numbers I have are 13429 and 13457 but its unlikely a gun so rare is made in this numbers. the Baden police had 500 needle fire rifles made by Spangenberg & Sauer and C.G. Hänel and the police was spread over the country so 200 customs needle fire rifles would be a mass. I forget the idea that needle fire revolver are into the SN range of sporting gun but this special patent rifle possible can be in it.
this would meaning the Dreyse SNs actually reach 134xx in 1876-1877

find pics of another Baden customs gun for sale in the united states lately http://www.antiquefirearms.com/pages/402.htm
and there is a pic showing the bolt head

the bolt head is plain without an old style air chamber or a Beck seal. obviously the rifle shooting a special paper cartridge with a "Schlusspiegel" paper wad in the base like the 0,71" Schlusspiegel shotgun cartridge. the cartridge "für Grenzaufsehergewehre" was available in the RMS/Dreyse catalog loaded with bullets and blanks for 5 Mark/100.
100 Dreyse military rifle cartridges cost 4,50 Mark so the additional price was maybe for the more complicated Schlussspiegel base.

.
.
.

when cleaning up my hardware find something more

this looks like SN 6680, no doubt made for the 0,71" Schlussspiegel cartridge easy to see because there are no extractor hooks up and down and no notch on the barrels end for hooks. nice to see were the discs on the breech face going into the chambers. this is called the "old model" gun but in fact the real old model made before 1870 had an air chamber like the military needle rifle to helping burn the paper cartridge and take some of the black powder residues for making the gun funktioning a longer time.

this was the real old model

this is the air chamber

the old model gun fire a self consuming paper cartridge and the air chamber make it more or less gas-tight, many times probably less gas-tight

air chamber on the military rifle

the 0,71" Schlussspiegel cartridge use probably the same barrels like the 0,74" Randschlussspiegel cartridge with only a different chamber. this caliber was similar to 16ga Lancaster CF shotguns most used in germany before the great war and after
.as you can see the "old model" had only plain discs because the Schlussspiegel cartridge must have some kind of thick paper base the so called "Schlussspiegel" pressed against the plain disc and made the barrels end gas-tight when fired. of course it was not burned and must be remove when loading again or shot out with the next cartridge.

this is an interesting gun I dont have a SN
its marked N(Nicolaus)v.Dreyse, the son of Franz having the firm between 1894 and 1899 and made after 1893 as you can see on the U+crown proof mark in the action. its a 0,74" Randschlusspiegel but the gun have common centerfire gun extrators and probably use 0,74" Randschlussspiegel cartridges with center fire shotgun primer something also offered in the Dreyse/RMS ammo list. the SN must be somewhere between 31000 and 37000. the breech end again have discs reaching into the barrels end like a Collath gun to make the action stronger.

another "old model" double gun, it was in the trade between 1891 and 1893 so geting the V/crown proof. the action having an engraving I read something like 0,685" Schlussspiegel cartridge and there is more not clear to see. notice the gun is marked N.Dreyse so made before his nobilitation in 1864. there is "1857" visible - maybe the serial number.

the patch box is something I have seen on a single shot rifle in investigation just now so made original by Dreyse.

.
.
.

"14" ga so probably a 0,71" Schlussspiegel for sale once in 2007 this are the first pics where the original ramrod/cleaning rod is to see

its actually not long enough but maybe there is some extending system

.
.
.

0,70" Randschlussp. SN 12247 for sale in the US
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=465493760

Edited by lancaster (02/02/15 07:19 AM)