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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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clark7781
.375 member


Reged: 28/10/04
Posts: 612
Loc: Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
A different load for each barrel to regulate?
      #26440 - 17/02/05 07:46 AM

Ok guys, I'm rather new to the DR world having bought my .500 Merkel midway through last year.

I know that each gun is different, and I was wondering (will take all the laughs now if this is a moronic question) but has anyone ever had to use one load for one barrel and a different load for the other?

(I know that depending on the game you are hunting, you may have a solid in one and a soft in the other barrel, but when shooting say two solids, have you ever found that your rifle regulates with a different mix [different amount of powder or different type of powder] in each barrel?)

Again, sorry if this is moronic, but I am just curious.

--------------------
Clark

Double Rifle Shooters Society
.500 NE and .577 NE


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butchloc
.300 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: clark7781]
      #26443 - 17/02/05 07:53 AM

not a dumb question at all, in fact I once had a double 450 that I had to do just that with. I wouldn't want to do it on a rifle I was out hunting with, but just for plinking it works fine

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unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: clark7781]
      #26479 - 18/02/05 12:41 AM

An undesirable situation, but sometimes one is forced to expediants.

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SOUTHPAWTOO
.275 member


Reged: 04/12/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: clark7781]
      #26516 - 18/02/05 08:38 PM

Dear Clark,
You have a most unfortunate situation there. Inasmuch as your rifle is "new". Have you considered sending it back to the company to have it re-regulated? If it is shooting good with each bbl. individually you might want to at least ask the company what they would charge to do the work. Considering the cost of components to experiment with to "maybe" get it shooting properly, it might be a cheaper and quicker alternative. Just a thought. SP2

--------------------
SP2


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Jeffeosso
.275 member


Reged: 11/01/03
Posts: 52
Loc: Porter, Texas
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: clark7781]
      #26523 - 19/02/05 01:31 AM

Clark,
for an antigue, or a collectable, this just MIGHT be acceptable until it could be reregulated.. but for a new DGR, it is totally unacceptable. Case being, if the chips are down, and you are reloading quickly, the THING on your mind is to stuff both chambers... and if you bobble the ammo, you now are going to have something that (potentially) shoots WORSE with the wrong barrel's ammo than if there was one median load between them.

send it back to merkel... and have a fit!!


or, send it to me.. i'll send you one of my pedersoli 58 front stuffers to practice with, and i'll get it back to you when i've "worn" it in!!

jeffe

--------------------
Why do Scots men wear kilts? Because it's far easier to run with your kilt up than your pants down


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: Jeffeosso]
      #26527 - 19/02/05 03:19 AM

Ok guys, Clark didn't say his 500 WAS not regulated, but curious about dual loads. Clark did say he was NEW to DR, just as I was last summer. Chances are he has not worked up a "regulated load". It took me all summer to get my .375 to regulate with different bullet weights. I would also say, that on some days my shooting was not up to par. I takes great skill to perfectly shoot 6 rounds in a row. If you don't, you'll never know if your load is really regulated.
Let' face it - six bench rested shots with a .500 NE has got to rarttle your nerves abit.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: bonanza]
      #26534 - 19/02/05 10:33 AM

In reply to:

Chances are he has not worked up a "regulated load".




I'm sure the above suspicion is the correct one! There is nothing wrong with his Merkel, he simply has not found "THE" load!

CLARK , first off there are some rules you cannot break when working up loads for a double rifle. The commonly missused term for working up a proper load for a double rifle is "TO REGULATE YOUR RIFLE"! This is not a proper term, and causes some confusion from time to time. Regulation of a double rifle is a physical opperation done by a skilled barrel maker, requireing a heat,solder,a wedge, and some skill. It is the tweeking of the barrels to make the rifle shoot to a "KNOWN LOAD"! Believe it, or not, this is easier than WORKING UP A LOAD TO SHOOT TO THE REGULATION ALREADY IN THE RIFLE!

Working up loads to shoot to the regulation can be a touchy thing for several reasons. First the componants must be as near as they can be to the origenal componants, with the bullets traveling at the same speed. When you do not know these specifications, you must experiment with what is available. First off stay away from Monolithic solids in your double rifle, the exception being the North Fork FP solid, and Cup point solid.

The problem comes to light when you start to load, not knowing what is too hot for your rifle. A double rifle, no matter how new, is still 18th century technology, and is not well suited to high pressure, so start low, and work up very carefully! A double rifle is not the place to go looking for high velocity. Addtionally, for best results, no airspace can be tollerated in the case. so if the powder doesn't fill the case filler is needed! The choice of filler is critical. In most cases the safest is Dacron fiber fill, a pillow stuffing, that is cheap, and can be bought in any fabric store. The filler should be on top of the powder, and just enough so that it is slightly compressed when the bullet is seated! CAUTION: do not, under any cercumstances, place a card wad on top of the powder. The fiber filler will hold the powder in place, so there is no need for card wads at all!

Now that you have four rounds loaded with your beginning load, fire them from a clean cool barrel set. Holding the rifle as you would when shooting off hand. You may rest on sand bags, but only your hand should touch the bag. Hold the rifle in your hand, with your hand resting on the bag. Do not rest the butt of the rifle, but simply hold it against your shoulder. The double rifle absolutely must be allowed to recoil normally, as it would if being shot from a standing position. The free recoiling is what makes the regulation work! Fire the shots in the right, left, right, left sequince, plotting each down as to where it hits the target.

Now if the load is causeing the RIGHT barrel to shoot HIGH, and on the RIGHT, and the LEFT barrel is shooting HIGH, and LEFT, then the load is too light, and needs speeding up! The bullets are spending too much time in the barrels, and exiting too late in the recoil arc, and need speeding up! This will usually be the case when your first light loads are fired on the target!

If the RIGHT barrel is shooting on the LEFT, and LOW, and the LEFT barrel is shooting on the RIGHT, and LOW, the load is too fast, and is exiting the barrels too quickly in the recoil arc! The load needs to be slowed!

The common thought is that all double rifles cross at some distance! This is absolutely not the case! Once a properly regulated double rifle has a proper load found, the barrels will shoot two groups that are actually very close together, and side by side,the distance between the inner edge of each bore apart giveing the impression of a solid composite group, and will continue this side by side flight path as far as they travel. The misconception that they should cross at a given range is what give rise to another misconception that double rifles are only accurate to 100 yds or less!

The quest for a proper load is not an easy trail, to follow, and can get expencive as well, but once found, will work for life, so record the load carefully, and give it to the new owner if you sell the rifle!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Astor
.224 member


Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: clark7781]
      #26607 - 21/02/05 01:35 PM

Clark7781 - Get a copy of "Shooting the British Double Rifle" by Graeme Wright (everything you wanted to know about double rifles but were afraid to ask) . If your rifle is new and will not shoot the advertisedgroup give it back to the dealer and let him "shoot it out" with the manufacturer. If it is used and has seen a lot of use it is not unusual for the right barrel to shoot high due to wear. If this is the case the only way to correct the problem is to develope two different loads (one for each barrel) which is not practical from a logistics stand point (especially if you are dealing with dangerous game) or, sent the rifle to some one to have the rifle re bored and/or re regulated.
If its not too bad you may elect to live with it



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BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: Astor]
      #26682 - 23/02/05 09:03 AM

I second the suggestion about getting a copy of Shooting the British Double Rifle by Graeme Wright. I found it very informative and helpful when I starting loading for my Merkel in .470 NE. (Be sure to look for and get the Second Edition of the book.)

-Bob F.



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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: A different load for each barrel to regulate? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #26689 - 23/02/05 12:12 PM

Mac,

Good piece there. I'd like to state that for my .375 I got each bullet weight to "regulate" well below the factory velocity, hence lower pressure, and with modern bullets there is ample killing power still on tap. As far as my .470 is concerned, I'm still shooting 375gr bullets in it. I haven't worked the "skeered" out yet.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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