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With my rifles, there's no wood where I grip the barrels when in a shooting position, if anything the forend tip ends up in the shallow palm of my support hand.
I tend to grip the barrels ahead of the forend wood.
My rifles have splinter forends, and I think a beavertail forend would get in the way of handling the rifle.

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With a beavertail forend on a heavy kicker like a 470, if you only hold on to the wood you run the risk of maybe breaking something, pulling the fore end off the bbl.

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Personal opinion of course but I not only prefer beavertail forends but think splinter types are lacking in esthetic appeal. In fact I think they are downright UGLI on either a shotgun OR a rifle. Don't really grasp the logic of grasping the barrels. As I say PERSONAL opinion.

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Different tastes. I prefer the splinter fore-end for looks.

Beaver tail fore-ends are often made for the US market at least in the shotgun market.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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I notice there is different ways a fore-end is held in place ,my 470 double has a Rigby swing lever, my webley a push-rod design and others have a pull out lever.

Is one better than the others?

cheers
steve

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Probably the Swing lever is the most secure, but I simply don't like them! My favorite is the DEELEY lever (pull out lever)But some "EXPERTS" say they are inferior to the swing lever, and may be. The Anson plunger release ( push-rod) works fine, but if it jams in anyway, the only fix is to take chisel and split the wood to get to the works of it. There is another one, from older rifle days, and is a hold over from the muzzle loader days, and that is the cross wedge. Unless you are simply into nostalgia, this one I would leave in the store! I have double rifles with all four fasteners, but the wedge type is actually on a muzzel loading double rifle, so is appropiate for that rifle.

I DO NOT however own a double rifle or shotgun with a beavertail fore-end, nor will I own one with out modifying the fore wood to as near splenter as I can get!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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With a beavertail forend on a heavy kicker like a 470, if you only hold on to the wood you run the risk of maybe breaking something, pulling the fore end off the bbl.

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ONLY IF IT WAS FAULTY.

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No, he's right, and it does happen with quality SXS doubles fitted with BTFEs. The fore-end loop is typically soft soldered to the barrels on top quality doubles, just like the ribs are. When a hard kicking large bore double rifle is fired while held improperly, as NE450No2 described above, the attachment is subjected to stress that is not present with a splinter, and damage can result as described. The purpose of the fore-end wood is to enclose and protect the fore-end iron. Splinter fore-ends are intentionally very small - too small to use for a handle - because the fore-end isn't intended to be a handle, nor should it be used as one. Splinters are more than just "traditional", and this is only one of the reasons why.

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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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I notice there is different ways a fore-end is held in place ,my 470 double has a Rigby swing lever, my webley a push-rod design and others have a pull out lever.

Is one better than the others?

cheers
steve

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I notice there is different ways a fore-end is held in place ,my 470 double has a Rigby swing lever, my webley a push-rod design and others have a pull out lever.

Is one better than the others?

cheers
steve

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Wilkinson's Screw Grip Fore-end Fastener is the oldest of the common three, and is by far the most positive, durable, and trouble-free. You described it as "a Rigby swing lever". Patent was originally Wilkinson Sword Co.'s (you know, the razor blade people), Rigby apparently purchased it later.

Anson's 1872 push-button design ("my Webley a push rod design") came next, and is the next best. Reliable, but on occasion the threaded stem has been known to turn out under heavy recoil, locking the fore-end on the gun. Getting it off requires removing the wood from the fore-end iron with a chisel. Good design, but not as ideal for a DR as the screw-grip lever type.

The Deeley & Edge design of 1873 ("a pull out lever") was both the last and the least. I've had this type on a number of double guns of various makes, and have never had anything but trouble with it. Of course, this is the one that Merkel, Searcy, Heym, Krieghoff, and Chapuis all use on their double rifles. I gather that the parts for this type must be available in quantity really cheap.

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Sound right that they all want to use the worst, and that the development stopped with it only shows that its must be the worst. As for the germans they been using it sinse they abandoned the wedge and they are a bunch of realy sloppy builders arent they?

But i agree for an old english double shotgun the anson is the right one, and for a bore gun the wilkinson would be prefered. But this has nothing to do with the quality of the lock only the tradition.

BTW Im pritty short about 175cm and i tend to hold all s/s doubles att the beginning of the forend,
so a swullen chunk of timber would only mean that my hands wont be able to grip around it. That means that i would have to hold on to the checkering of the wood. And getting the hand around the barrels are a good way to improve the instinctive aim.

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Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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The Anson plunger release ( push-rod) works fine, but if it jams in anyway, the only fix is to take chisel and split the wood to get to the works of it.

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Anson's 1872 push-button design ("my Webley a push rod design") came next, and is the next best. Reliable, but on occasion the threaded stem has been known to turn out under heavy recoil, locking the fore-end on the gun. Getting it off requires removing the wood from the fore-end iron with a chisel.

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Wow, that sounds nasty.
What's the story on this, does anyone have more details?
What is this "threaded stem" which can turn out, and how does it cause this lockup?
What rifles has this happened on?

Mac, do you have any more info?
Was it written up somewhere recently?
Thanks.

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Me? Splinter all the way on shotguns and rifles. I have been amazed though at how many of my customers want a semi-beavertail. I try and try to explain where the leading hand goes on the barrels, but I've yet to to change any of their minds. They must think I'm crazy for holding on to the barrels when there's a perfectly good wooden forend there!

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Me? Splinter all the way on shotguns and rifles. I have been amazed though at how many of my customers want a semi-beavertail. I try and try to explain where the leading hand goes on the barrels, but I've yet to to change any of their minds. They must think I'm crazy for holding on to the barrels when there's a perfectly good wooden forend there!

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new guy,
Thanks for that information.
It is good that the Heyms have that type of fitting for the loop as it would certainly make for a stronger system.

I totally agree regarding the reliability of the Deeley lever system.
I have owned several shotguns with that system, including clay target guns with a lot of rounds through them.
I also oun a couple of double rifles with deeley release levers which have done a fair amount of shooting, and I have never had any trouble whatsoever with the system in any of those guns.

Now, can you tell me any more regarding this need to chisel the fore-end wood if the catch somehow locks up with the anson release system?
It has been described in this thread as relating to the "threaded stem" turning out and locking the fore-end to the gun.

I've never heard of this before, plus many Anson fore-ends do not appear to have any "threaded stem".
Thanks for any light you can shed on this one.

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Personally, I suspect that all three are strong enough. But we’re gun nuts and we need things like this to debate around campfires and cocktails, right?

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Absolutely!
I couldn't agree more.

Edit
We were posting at the same time.
I just got to see those photos. Thanks for that.
They sure aren't going to fall off in any sort of hurry!

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