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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Double Accuracy boddington
      #54551 - 10/04/06 01:48 PM

Another gem from Nickadu



Sports Afield, Jun 2002 by Boddington, Craig
Continued from page 1.

For many years, I bought into the accuracy argument. On average, a bolt action is much more accurate. However, all but the most poorly regulated doubles are plenty accurate enough to cleanly take large game out to 100 yards. I've seen some that were much better, but I always thought it was sort of a random spread. Over the past few years I've been fortunate to share my little town of Paso Robles, California, with the John Rigby folks. I've watched them regulate dozens of doubles and have done some of the regulation shooting myself. With experience and like components, it's easy to achieve a starting point that gets you close. Then it's a matter of heating the barrels, melting the solder, moving the wedge-until you get it right. No double can rival a really accurate bolt action, but I am now convinced that double-rifle accuracy is largely a function of the amount of time and ammo its maker is willing to invest-and, of course, the skill of the regulator. Rigby's Del Whitman is a whiz, and I've seen him turn out numbers of doubles that have the shots cut each other.

They aren't alone, of course. Last year I used a Krieghoff double in .500/.416 that would print both barrels exactly side by side at 100 yards. Few big-bore bolt actions are as accurate. Krieghoff is a large and modern manufacturer, and their boxlock double is one of the least expensive on the market. You might think that they've found a way around this costly hand regulation. Not so. Just like Rigby and the many other smaller shops, they achieve a starting point through historical data and precision-made componentsbut then it's the time-consuming business of final regulation by hand, the old way.

When in need..

So the accuracy of a double depends on who makes it. The cost of a double is what it is. Not everyone can afford one, nor is a double rifle necessary to hunt dangerous game. Unless, of course, you really need that instantaneous second shot.

One long day in the Zambezi Valley, professional hunter Russ Broom and I followed a wounded leopard. I was carrying a shotgun, and I took the charge when it came. I saw both buckshot loads strike home, and I had time for two very quick realizations: I had failed to stop the leopard, and the gun was now empty. Then, to my right, came the double boom of Russ Broom's twin-barreled .500. The spotted blur folded, too close. Maybe I should have been carrying a double rifle that day ... but I will always be thankful that Russ was carrying his!

Copyright Sports Afield, Inc. Jun 2002
Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved


--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: mickey]
      #54552 - 10/04/06 01:53 PM

There is an answer to the question of whether or not a Shotty for Leopard also.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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oupa
.300 member


Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: mickey]
      #54580 - 11/04/06 10:48 AM

I spent a couple hours one spring day patterning several different buckshot loads at various distances. My conclusion - which is purely personal and not intended to change anyone's mind - is that buckshot should be very effective on soft targets, particularly of the human kind in defensive situations. However, at distances over five to ten yards I'd be reluctant to use it on anything big, nasty and bent on hurting me. What's more, at ten yards or less you can put MOST of a normal shot charge on the target - more of it than a sparse buckshot charge - which pours the full energy of the charge into the target creating a time buying staggering effect if nothing more deadly. What's more even the largest buckshot (individually) isn't all that big and shares it's power with a number of other pellets. That equates to pretty poor penetration and totally unpredictable wound path. Under the conditions Boddington relates I to would surely be more confident with a shotgun but if I could be sure my nerves would hold up, a big bore rifle or even an accurate slug shooting smoothbore would be more likely to put a killing shot in the right place. Plenty of leopard have certainly been killed with buckshot... and spears, knives and even rocks no doubt. Let's all hope none of us have to get THAT close though!

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Brent
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Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Iowa
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: mickey]
      #54583 - 11/04/06 11:32 AM

Mick,
Don't you suppose that you could find a few similar stories (even a whole bunch of stories) where a double rifle didn't do the job either?

Brent


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: Brent]
      #54584 - 11/04/06 12:01 PM

In reply to:

Poster: Brent
Subject: Re: Double Accuracy boddington

Mick,
Don't you suppose that you could find a few similar stories (even a whole bunch of stories) where a double rifle didn't do the job either?

Brent





No, I don't think that is possible.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: mickey]
      #54585 - 11/04/06 12:30 PM

Apparently the problem with a shotgun for following up leopards is that the buckshot just doesn't have the penetration to reliably kill or stop them. In other words, good shots, like Boddington's apparently were, don't always cut it.

This would never be an issue with nearly any but the lightest DR's - or bolt guns for that matter, given even halfway decent bullet selection. But the shot must be good.

JPK


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Brent
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Reged: 08/04/05
Posts: 31
Loc: Iowa
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: JPK]
      #54586 - 11/04/06 12:46 PM

I hardly care enough to wish to risk an argument, but do you KNOW that Boddington's shots were well placed?

And what is it about a sub 200lb leopard that makes them more bulletproof than any other mammal at such close ranges? A load of buckshot on a charging whitetail will penetrate I'm quite sure.

Some people seem to believe that African animals are made of something other than flesh and blood. I guess I'll have to prove that one to myself.

Brent


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3496
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: Brent]
      #54587 - 11/04/06 01:01 PM

Yes, in a charge situation, they are made of flesh, blood, and adrenalin!! That's the secret ingredient, and its not specific to African game.

It is a big part of the reason why a leopard, for instance, might not be stopped by a shotgun with anything less than a CNS hit, and how do you guarantee that with shot pellets?

I believe the popularity of shotguns for this line of work lies with their gun-fit, pointability, fast second shot, and lack of elaborate sighting encumberances. Funny how that describes most double rifles, too!

If I had to take a shottie against a wounded cat, give me Brennekes rather than buck-shot any day!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: Brent]
      #54588 - 11/04/06 01:13 PM

In reply to:

Poster: Brent
Subject: Re: Double Accuracy boddington

I hardly care enough to wish to risk an argument, but do you KNOW that Boddington's shots were well placed?

And what is it about a sub 200lb leopard that makes them more bulletproof than any other mammal at such close ranges? A load of buckshot on a charging whitetail will penetrate I'm quite sure.

Some people seem to believe that African animals are made of something other than flesh and blood. I guess I'll have to prove that one to myself.





Brent, of course I don't know if Boddington's shots were well placed. It's his article, not mine.

But, any kind of shot at a greater distance than 10-12 feet is less effective than a slug or a bullet. Inside 10 feet any shot size will act as a slug so it would not make much difference which you used.

You cannot compare a Leopard to a Whitetail. Muscle mass and bone strength are not equal. As Marrakai stated the secret ingredient is adrenalin.

I hope you do get a chance to see for your self. I also hope you don't have to prove it one way or the other on a charging Leopard or any thing else.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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seroadglide
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Reged: 06/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: West Tenn., USA
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: Marrakai]
      #54592 - 11/04/06 02:31 PM

Marrakai,

Before I got to your thread I was thinking "Brennekes".

Good suggestion; they can penetrate a surprising thickness of mild steel.

Now, one of those Sabbati(sp?) leopard specials with Brennekes should be fun on quite a bit of game, especially so in a thicket.



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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: Marrakai]
      #54600 - 11/04/06 07:29 PM

I agree with Marrakai.

A double shotgun with a proper solid round would be the ticket if I had to go after a wounded leopard.

Same principle as a Double rifle and stalking wounded Buff.
Quick second shot with something that works.

Hope I am never in that situation.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (11/04/06 07:38 PM)


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JPK
.375 member


Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: hoppdoc]
      #54606 - 11/04/06 11:53 PM

Brent,

Regarding boddington's shots, I'll never know for sure how good they were but he noted in the article that he watched the pellets hit home. In addition in his video "Boddington on Leopards" he relates the same story. He might even show a couple of photos, I think he does but can't really recall for certain.

Perhaps more persuasive for you is the general abandonment of the shotgun shooting their standard buckshot (size SG?) for follow up for wounded leopards as reported in a variety of books and articles over the last ten or fifteen years or so. Too many failures of the type described by Boddington reported by PH's. Some report going to Brenekes and some report going to American 000 size buckshot in three inch cases which as I understand it isn't generally available in Africa and only more recently have many 3" chambered guns been available.

Put me in that spot and I would want my favorite SxS shotgon shooting Brenekes first since it is nearly four pounds lighter than my DR and so handier, second choice would be my DR.

JPK


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Yogi000
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 265
Loc: New York, USA
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: JPK]
      #54613 - 12/04/06 04:37 AM

It is so very good to see that others distinguish between shot and slugs, especially dangerous game slugs like the Brenneke. I have been using the Brenneke 1 and 3/8 ounce (607 grain) big 3 inch Black Magic Magnum DG slug. It is NOT like any other regular slug... and it is NOT like puny pellets. This slug is dangerous and, in my most humble of humble opinions, would have layed that leopard down and it very well might even have blown it backward and dead, where those shot pellets did not do the job.

When some people put down the shotgun as a hunting tool based on pellet shots they might now be considering the "projectile". To do so is in my opinion like saying a 300 rem ultra mag would NOT do the job because they saw what the 30-30 did NOT do.

DG slugs are a breed unto themsleves. A very Powerful difference to either pellets or even regular slugs.

Ergo, it may not be fair to dismiss the 12 gauge shotgun based on pellet lack-of-performance to kill... And particularly because they were probably 2 and 3/4 shells, making the comparison even more remote, and inaccurate. I often read from some hunters that shotguns don't work on dangerous game, yet it seems to me they often base this on antiquated or partial info. A shotgun can shoot pellets AND it can shoot very dangerous game slugs. They achieve dramatically different results. However, of course, it is the skill of the hunter that plays perchance the largest role. Yet, I know I would NOT shoot pellets at a dangerous game unless as someone else wrote it was within 10 - 12 feet... I would always opt for Dangerous Game Slugs in both barrels... 607 grainers (not the little 358'ers with regular slug powder, either.) Blam Blam. Or even just one BLAM.

All of this is just one yogi's opinion.


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MopaneMike
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/06
Posts: 147
Loc: So Cal USA
Re: Double Accuracy boddington [Re: Brent]
      #54710 - 13/04/06 01:59 PM

Ah,Brent Brent Brent As was mentioned when they are pumped up and see YOU as whats killing them they react with amazing tenacity.. I've been charged by Elephant, I've been charged by Buffalo, but you know what almost got me? A Chobe Bushbuck my friend shot right through the shoulder/heart with a .375H&H.. That lil guy spun around in mid air and saw me before he hit the ground, it was amazingly fast on three legs and 70yds.. Just as I was saying Holy S*it I need to shoot to save myself, he ran out of gas only about 8-10 yds from me.. Now try that with a 200lb cat!

--------------------
MopaneMike


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