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hoser
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Reged: 06/01/10
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Loc: California, USA
Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R?
      #149614 - 06/01/10 03:30 PM

FIRST POST, so go easy on me!

I was really pretty set on a 30-06 for ease of ammo availability. Plus, living in California, there's the whole "lead bullet" ban in much of the state. So I'm assuming there will be better selection and easier to find. I will probably get a custom load regulated to my rifle using North Fork bullets to use in "lead banned areas" (which I heard is CA approved and safer for double rifle barrels) but I like the idea of ease of ammo selection...especially for fun shooting. 30-06 is everywhere!

But seems like the 9.3x74R would be a really cool caliber, especially in a hearty double rifle. Any of you feel a double rifle in 30-06 is just not right and I should stick with a true DR load?

This would probably be my only double and only plan on using in US, not Africa (although I can dream about that). Mostly for wild boar but hopefully moose, elk and bear someday. Thoughts and opinions?

BTW, my gun would be a Chapuis UGEX. That's about where my budget maxes out! Thanks in advance!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: hoser]
      #149617 - 06/01/10 03:51 PM

Personally I would still go for a 9.3x74R. More versatile and will kill all the game you list well.

I use Woodleigh bullets in my doubles so can't comment on the "lead free" issue and availability of bullets in .30 calibre vs 9.3mm. However you will find good monometal banded bullets in 9.3mm and a 286 gr (or similar weight) will do everything you need. IMO.

The Chapuis sounds like a good choice too.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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hoser
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: NitroX]
      #149619 - 06/01/10 03:57 PM

Thanks NitroX, you're my very first responder on the forum. You'll forever have a place in my heart! HA, I'm sure THAT means a lot to you!

Wouldn't 30-06 pretty much take everything in North America, including bear? That's what I've always been told. Would 9.3x74R offer a significant advantage or just an advantage if I went to Africa (my dream hunt that's just not in the cards in the ever near future!)?

Forgot to add that California may have a mail order ammunition ban that our beloved "Arnold" signed. It's obviously being challenged in court, but if this does go through, ammo availability will be even more severely limited! FUN, huh?

Edited by hoser (06/01/10 04:03 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: hoser]
      #149621 - 06/01/10 04:08 PM

Hoser,

Your fellow Americans can comment on local hunting. However if in a double I would not feel a 9.3x74R a handicap for any of the animals you list.

The only 'handicap' might be a slightly reduced range compared to a .30-06 but given most DR hunters don't take long range shots anyway. However there are guy(s) on NE and elsewhere whom have taken 240 yard shots with their 9.3.

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hoser
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: NitroX]
      #149623 - 06/01/10 04:15 PM

I've always assumed the 9.3x74R would be a BETTER stopper than a 30-06, not a handicap! I did think it would be a flatter shooting round, but you're right about it being a closer range gun. My main reason was ammo availability and less recoil (secondary). But maybe I was wrong. I'm obviously not a ballistics expert so maybe someone can comment on the two in real life hunting situations.

Edited by hoser (06/01/10 04:17 PM)

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tinker
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: hoser]
      #149629 - 06/01/10 04:38 PM

Hoser-



Again, Welcome to the site!


For holly-jolly shooting ammo - you'll find 'cheaper' ammunition for the 30-06
The '06 will be lighter and it will recoil much less.
It will be all you need for anything you've spoken (elsewhere) of wanting to hunt.

The 9.3 will also handle any/everything you've said you'd hunt, and it will do it with more energy.
That energy will cost you in terms of recoil, rifle weight, and money every time you pull the trigger.

If you're handloading, the difference will/can be less.
If you're looking at a life of shooting factory and/or custom ammunition, the additional cost can/will be substantial.

Also -- as noted elsewhere -- if you're looking to get a load put together for 'no-lead' hunting areas (like the restricted California Condor Zone), get that load together and put it aside for your hunts.
Such ammunition is expensive, and some would say (even with NF or GS bullets) that barrel life expectancy should be considered shortened if the rifle will only see copper bullets.
Re-barreling a double rifle will cost you thousands of dollars.

Your practice/fun/'rest of the world' hunting ammunition can/should be either jacketed softs or cast bullets.
With cast bullets you can shoot ON THE CHEAP - especially so with the 30-06


Do a life-cycle costing of your planned ownership/use of a double rifle.

There's some great deals to be had, especially lately.
It's important to be thorough in your decision process, so that you get WHAT YOU WANT, also that you get something that you can live with.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NE450No2
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: hoser]
      #149639 - 06/01/10 06:04 PM

hoser

I have been hunting with a Chapuis in 9,3x74R for several years.

In fact I have taken more different game with this rifle than any other.

I have used it in Texas, Montana, Idaho, Canada and 3 Safaris to Zim.

I have taken giraffe cape buff and elephant with it as well.

My longest shots, with scope, a coyote at 281, or 287 yards, lazered after the shot, cannot remember which, and a kudu at a little over 300 yards, both shots filmed with witnessess, the closest shot, elephant at 5 yards.

The 9,3x74R is one of my favorite hunting cartridges.

It works great for wild pigs and black bear.

I have taken bobcat, turkey, and several coyotes, even shot a beaver with it.

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kamilaroi
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: NE450No2]
      #149643 - 06/01/10 06:28 PM

No, no, not the beaver! I would prefer a much more intimate linguistic dialogue.

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hoser
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: kamilaroi]
      #149644 - 06/01/10 06:46 PM

I've no doubt this is an awesome cartridge (which is why I'm having trouble deciding), but given the situation in my state of California, which is banning mail order ammo, would you still choose 9.3x74R? I guess my dilemma is the possibility of this restriction, which may severely limit getting ammo shipped in and finding some in store would pretty much be impossible. I hope this law gets defeated in court! I guess I could always consider MOVING!

I was pretty set on 30-06 but I see so much about the 9.3 and the fact that it's a "traditional" DR round (which is why most of us are allured by the SxS anyway), I'm struggling between my head and my heart!

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450_366
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: kamilaroi]
      #149646 - 06/01/10 07:19 PM

Quote:

No, no, not the beaver! I would prefer a much more intimate linguistic dialogue.





--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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sambarstalker
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: hoser]
      #149647 - 06/01/10 07:25 PM

To make it even more difficult for you. I should say I have a rifle in 9.3 x 74R and in .30/06. They are both double rifles. The first, in 9.3 x 74R is a Dumoulin handmade double and is the most perfectly balanced rifle I have ever had. You put it to your shoulder and it is aiming perfectly. You have no idea what a joy a well-balanced rifle is like. It is perfect pig medicine. It drops them on the spot. It is a side by side. If I never used any other rifle I would be happy.

I must tell you about 4 pigs I got, each brace with a left and a right, quartering away from me at about 45 degrees at a distance of about 50 yards. That sort of memorable hunting is a joy with a good DR. I doubt I would have been able to do that with a bolt action rifle.

The other rifle is a Baikal O/U. At least it is regulatable.

I cannot comment on California, as I have only been to LA airport. In Australia, projectiles and cases are easy to get for both calibres, and .30/06 is cheaper.

Cheers, sambarstalker

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450_366
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: 450_366]
      #149653 - 06/01/10 08:29 PM

I would go for the 9,3mm, for driven pigs its superior to the 30/06.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: 450_366]
      #149663 - 06/01/10 11:24 PM

Hoser,

Welcome to NE.com.

I recommend the 9.3 as stated in my email to you. It's a far superior round for a double rifle.

As to the mail order ammo problem, I would think it could be solved by establishing a relationship with a dealer who can order the ammo for you to purchase in person from him.

After all, ammo cost is not your deciding factor. If that were so, you wouldn't be buying a double rifle. Go for the 9.3 and then tackle the mail order problem.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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9.3x57
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: CptCurl]
      #149671 - 07/01/10 02:28 AM

This one surprises me.

The man mentions specifically the lead-ban and need for no-lead bullets {actually, many mono's have lead in them, an issue the CA DNR seems to ignore...}.

What surprises me is that the man says his rifle will be a Chapuis and several of the posters have recommended the use of mono's, or at least didn't strongly warn against them.

Seems the OSR issue, if as important as it seems to be on other threads, would preclude his purchase of a double entirely since he is probably going to need to shoot mono's to some degree and probably more, not less, in the future.

Comments?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #149673 - 07/01/10 02:44 AM

Quote:

What surprises me is that the man says his rifle will be a Chapuis and several of the posters have recommended the use of mono's, or at least didn't strongly warn against them.

Seems the OSR issue, if as important as it seems to be on other threads, would preclude his purchase of a double entirely since he is probably going to need to shoot mono's to some degree and probably more, not less, in the future.

Comments?



Don't be dis-ingenius. I mentioned "properly" banded monometal bullets. No choice in California if more conventional bullets can not be used in most circumstances.


North Fork


Gs Custom

Both of these bullet makers claim they are safe to use. NE does not provide any such claim ie any reloading is at the users own risk.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (07/01/10 03:09 AM)

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9.3x57
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: NitroX]
      #149677 - 07/01/10 02:52 AM

Quote:

Don't be dis-ingenius. I mentioned "properly" banded monometal bullets. No choice in California if more conventional bullets can not be used in most circumstances.



YIKES!

Nitro, I'm not being disengenuous.

What I'm saying is that from other threads it would appear that this fellow has no options for a Chapuis if he needs to use monos. The Chapuis has specifically {tho I don't think by you} been named as a no-no for monos.

Or are the posters basically speaking in general terms of the choice between '06 and 9.3?

Which, I'd agree as far as that goes. I'd take the 9.3.

Anyway, at least he should be forewarned that the concensus of opinion on this Forum has been that monos may damage his Chapuis double.

NO Offense intended to you, Nitro, or the others, just a question of clarification. Sorry if I offended anyone. Sometimes I mean to, but not this time...

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: 9.3x57]
      #149678 - 07/01/10 03:05 AM

Well here you are, a link to the other thread so no need to discuss it here again:

OSR, Double Damage

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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crkennedy1
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: NitroX]
      #149681 - 07/01/10 03:17 AM

Welcome hoser,

As a former California resident, I feel your pain - go east young man! I, on the other hand recommend the .30-06. The ammo is readily available and much cheeper than the 9.3x74R (and it's also readily available in tree-hugger friendly non-lead). I have several rifles in this caliber, including a side-by-side double, and for the shooting that we do most often out here in the rockies you are going to need a flat shooting bullet that will go the distance with little drop. Check the ballistics, and I'm sure you see that the .30-06 will be the weapon of choice.
One other item worth mentioning - I just recently took my first safari to Africa for plains game, and the PH recommended that I use my .30-06. I followed his advice and am so glad I did. Six animals were harvested, all at an average of 200+ yards; all one-shot kills. Go with the gun that's proved its worth of over 100 years...

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING

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hoser
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: NitroX]
      #149682 - 07/01/10 03:24 AM

I don't want this to turn into a OSR thread, but I appreciate the input and would love to here more if what I've found is incorrect! I did consider this, but found (from this very controversial subject) is that the North Fork and GS bullets are okay for double rifles. I also realize that I WILL need to have some custom loaded ammo for hunting in the part of CA that restricts ammo to solids. Here is an email quote I received from North Fork that I'm posting with his permission:


NORTH FORK EMAIL QUOTE:
"Todd,
I'll gladly try to answer your questions.

First off, we manufacture flat and cup point solids that are all copper for most double rifle calibers. The flat and cup points bullets are registered with the State of California as lead free so they are legal to use for hunting in the lead free zones.

Next to try and answer your question is it safe to use North Fork Solids in double rifles, the answer is yes for "modern" double rifles and maybe for older double rifles. I'll explain the "problem" with some bullet designs and how they can cause issues in older double rifles. A solid copper (or any mono metal bullet) or thick jacketed bullet does not compress much when going through rifling compared to a thin jacketed bullet. In old doubles in particular there was a lot of variation from maker to maker as to the actual diameter of the rifling and the thickness of the walls of the barrels. I have heard stories of some mono metal (touch jacketed) bullets causing damage to the barrels or solder joint of old double rifles. With new double rifles, there are much better standards that everyone adheres to which helps to minimize the risk of sending a large "non-compressible" slug through a too small diameter bore. All North Fork solid bullets are what you would call a bore riding design. What this means is that the only portion of our bullet that contacts the rifling is our bands. The rifling actually never touches the "solid" copper section of the bullet and only the compressible bands. We are the only US manufacture that I know of that manufactures mono metal bullets in this manner. Before shooting our solids in an old double rifle, it is best to slug the bores and make sure you know exactly the diameter of the bores and get it checked out by a qualified gunsmith prior to shooting modern bullets in them.

I hope this answers your questions. Please feel free to ask more if needed.

Regards,
Franz Jurva
North Fork Technologies
PO Box 850
Philomath, OR 97370
(541) 929-4016; Fax: (541) 929-4424
http://www.northforkbullets.com"

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JabaliHunter
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: hoser]
      #149688 - 07/01/10 04:08 AM

Good choice of bullet
I think the answer is to reload your own. I don't know about California, but would bullets be classed as ammunition in the same way as loaded rounds?
I would cast my vote for the 9,3mm in a DR but if you reload, you could also consider the 8x57JRS in the Chapuis

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hoser
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #149689 - 07/01/10 04:09 AM

Not a reloader (yet) and patience is not a quality of mine!

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4seventy
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Re: Decision time: 30-06 or 9.3x74R? [Re: hoser]
      #149730 - 07/01/10 10:30 AM

hoser,
Welcome to the forum!

The 9.3x74 is a rimmed case, and is loaded to much lower chamber pressure than the 30-06.
Both these features are desirable in a double rifle.
So long as you can obtain factory ammo or reloading components for the 9.3, it is by far the better choice for a DR in my opinion.

If ammo and components are likely to be an issue, you may have to look at the alternatives.
When it comes time to make the final choice, it's your call.

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hoser
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Loc: California, USA
Merkel 141 or Chapuis UGEX [Re: 4seventy]
      #149731 - 07/01/10 10:33 AM

I posted this question on another thread, but anyone have experience with Merkel 141 (small frame) and how it compares to Chapuis UGEX for these calibers?

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DM
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Re: Merkel 141 or Chapuis UGEX [Re: hoser]
      #149733 - 07/01/10 11:31 AM

I chose the Chapuis in 9.3x74R, and i think it was the right choise. Perhaps getting it would take you to take the next step, and allow you to learn to reload your own ammo??

I've spent a lot of time hunting brown bear, what bear may be in your future? If it's a blk., then the 30-06 is more than enough, but if it's a brown, i'd forsure go with the 9.3, as i consider a "properly loaded" 30-06 my personal mininum for big bears, and a properly loaded 9.3x74R to more than enough for the job.

DM

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hoser
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Re: Merkel 141 or Chapuis UGEX [Re: DM]
      #149736 - 07/01/10 11:48 AM

95% or more will be wild boar here in CA. My dream will be to get moose and elk someday because I LOVE the meat. Not so much deer. No strong desire to gun bear, but you never know and just would like to have a gun that I can take.

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