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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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BigBore2
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Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 12
Loc: central Tx. USA
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #11501 - 14/03/04 04:25 PM

Size does matter, in alot of areas of life!
Regards Mike

--------------------
Whiskey for my men & beer for my horses!

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Elias
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Reged: 23/03/04
Posts: 19
Loc: Finland
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #12321 - 24/03/04 08:13 AM

I have 22-250 cal really accurate,modified Tikka LSA-55 rifle.
I also hunt with it,mainly birds of long distance, NEWER bigger animals than foxes.For moose I use 30-06 which is my main hunting cal,also 45-70 in some cases.We have bears also, when I partisipate in bearhunt,I take my .375HH and I really dont feel owergunned.

Elias

--------------------
As long thers lead in the air,thers hope.

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cr500
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Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 213
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #12341 - 24/03/04 11:28 AM

Main reason is because we want to. Like Mickey says ,sometimes you want to blow the crap out of something. The fact is that most of my bigbore shooting (and I suppose it is the same with a few others out here,)
is done at charging ant hills/ termite mounts or just plain old paper. It is like asking why people want 600HP cars or 160HP motor bikes and so on.
As for serious hunting, Ive never gone after dangerous game,YET. When I do ,I would rather have a good 458 Lott with me than a smaller 375. I know lots of great hunters get by with a 375 ,but I would be more comfortable with a bigger hammer in case my bullet placement is not as good as theirs. If it starts running quickly towards or away from me ,then a bigger bore will be handy there. My 458 Lott will be more dual purpose, using 300 GN barness bullets which are the same BC as a 180gn 308 bullet and going at about 2600-2700 fps ,should have a similar trajectory to a 30-06. This should be good on pigs,camels,scrub bulls,sambar deer ,then go to Africa and be used as an only gun for Wathogs to Zebra,Wilderbeast and Kudu. If a Cape Buff pokes its head out ,then I can slip some 500 gn bullets in the mag. Big bores can realy be versatile.

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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #12343 - 24/03/04 11:41 AM

In answer to your question. Why not big bores? I am the guy who likes to shoot prairie dogs with a .375 H&H. Season 2002 I took a little mule deer buck with the .375. It flat knocked him off his feet. He went MAYBE 120 lbs. on the hoof. I have killed deer & antelope deader than yesterday's puppy love with a .243. For me it is what ever stikes my fancy at the time. I am blessed t o be able to use just about anything I want. Last season I took my deer & antelope with an old .30-30.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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cooch
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Reged: 21/09/03
Posts: 192
Loc: Southern NSW
Re: Why big bores? [Re: WyoJoe]
      #13595 - 16/04/04 08:49 PM

Just been rereading "Pack & Rifle" by Phil Holden. As a pro deer culler in NZ he found that .222s were very popular - for a while.
They certainly did the job, up to a point. But most found after a while that just too many deer were getting away wounded.
Use enough gun!

Also have a copy of Elmer Keith's "Hell, I was There!"
Elmer liked rifles of all sizes, used .300H&H mag quite a bit. Now that may seem large to some, but it isn't a "big bore".
What he really did seem to major on was long bullets with a high sectional density and good construction. He gave up using smaller calibres on animals larger than elk for one simple reason.... experience. Mostly bad experience.
And I don't think anyone here is going to suggest that Elmer was lacking in marksmanship skills and hunter savvy.

Cheers....... Peter
<rabbits with a .444>

--------------------
"The only logical response to an animal that lives obsessed with avoiding capture is to chase it." - Jose Ortega y Gassett

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Why big bores? [Re: cooch]
      #13611 - 17/04/04 04:32 AM

It sure depends on what your hunting...I have killed a lot of deer with the 222, 223 and 22-250 and they suck, they blood shoot way to much meat IMO, and one small mistake and you have a bad tracking job on your hands...

A 338 with a 300 gr. Woodleigh or a 375 with a solid or 350 gr. woodleigh will just cut a 40 caliber hole through them and kill them just as fast without the meat waste..Same with a 220 gr. 30-06 or even a 180 gr.

I can take any shot the game offers going away or coming and you must take only broadside shots with light fast calibers..

I think its mostly an ego trip when folks claim the small bores are all thats needed for big game and I have seen these self styled experts wound a lot of game over the years.....

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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Reged: 12/04/04
Posts: 96
Loc: ACT, Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: atkinson6]
      #13947 - 25/04/04 05:24 PM

I agree that it doesn't matter if it's overkill (if there is such a thing), all that matters is that the animal dies quickly and then you have fun!!! Hunting with small cals is fun, hunting with big cals IMO is even more fun because you can watch the animal go splat. Ok I admit it is a bit sick, but watching an animal that was taken with a cal too small die in agony is worse that a quick grusome death. Also some people just enjoy having their shoulder hurt by recoil , hahaha.

M82A1

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sbs470
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Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 378
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania
Re: Why big bores? [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #13954 - 25/04/04 09:52 PM

I've alwasys thought of it this way.
Jump in the ring with a featherweight, bantam or lightweight
and you'll go a couple of rounds and they will knock you out eventually.
do the same thing with a heavy weight.1st round KO.Get the job done properly first time.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Why big bores? [Re: sbs470]
      #13960 - 25/04/04 11:42 PM

I've watched this thread go on for a bit. Here's my .02, because I can.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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ridgerunner_ky
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Reged: 23/01/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Kentucky, U.S.
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #27180 - 03/03/05 04:49 AM

I have used the 243 a lot and I love it. But it's a deer and varmint gun. Can you kill elk or moose or whatever with a 243 sure you can. Is it recommended, I dont think so. If you got thousands of dollars invested in a hunt why would you want to take a chance with an inadequate caliber when it may be the only chance you will ever get. Doesnt make good sense.

If something bites back I want the biggest thing that I can shoot accurately.

Would you want to get in the car with someone who is to drunk to drive? You might make it you might not. Same thing if you go hunting a big brown bear with a 243 you might make it and you might become lunch


So why would you want to take that chance with your life hunting with an inadequate gun?? Especially when you can buy a cz up to about a 458 lott for about 650 to 700 dollars brand new


Edited by ridgerunner_ky (03/03/05 04:51 AM)

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SAHUNT
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Reged: 27/12/04
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Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: Why big bores? [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #27182 - 03/03/05 05:44 AM

USE ENOUGH GUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robert Ruark


If I'm not mistaken..........................make a lot of sense to me.

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience

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ridgerunner_ky
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Reged: 23/01/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Kentucky, U.S.
Re: Why big bores? [Re: SAHUNT]
      #27208 - 03/03/05 06:25 PM

Exactly!!!

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wombat
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Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #27213 - 03/03/05 10:04 PM

This is presumably a deliberately provocative posting.Only a complete Wally would think that all hunting could be accomplished with those calibres.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #27216 - 04/03/05 01:27 AM

Ducodeath,in south east asia in the 60's,America's weapon of choice was a 223(5.56)Ar 15,M16.
Australias choice was a 7.62 (308)L1A1.
I will stand behind a rubber tree and give you 5 shots at me with your 223,then you stand behind a rubber tree and I will do the same using a 308.
MAKE SURE YOUR INSURANCE IS PAID UP AND YOUR WILL IS UP TO DATE !!!!!
STUPID BLOODY STATMENT YOU MADE.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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new_guy
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Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
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Re: Why big bores? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #27223 - 04/03/05 04:41 AM

In reply to:

Ducodeath,in south east asia in the 60's,America's weapon of choice was a 223(5.56)Ar 15,M16.
Australias choice was a 7.62 (308)L1A1.



That’s because the US military determined that a wounded soldier was more detrimental to an enemy than a dead soldier.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
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Re: Why big bores? [Re: new_guy]
      #27234 - 04/03/05 01:16 PM

The dead dont recover or shoot back!!!!

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Nframe
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Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 79
Loc: United States
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #27245 - 04/03/05 04:19 PM

I don't know where to even start with this ??? If small bore's were the best for DG why do PH carry the largest calibers they can handle. Marksmanship is a huge part of it but put out an Elephants, bears, Boars eye with a 22 LR all you're going to have is a very pissed critter that is going to try and even the score. It's better to have "too much" than not enough!!

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ridgerunner_ky
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Reged: 23/01/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Kentucky, U.S.
Re: Why big bores? [Re: new_guy]
      #27254 - 04/03/05 07:33 PM

new guy,
where did you come up with that at??

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new_guy
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Re: Why big bores? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #27260 - 05/03/05 09:04 AM

In reply to:

The dead dont recover or shoot back!!!!



No, I didn't say they did. It was a military thoery - but ask youself:

How many soldiers does it take to help a wounded soldier?

How many soldiers does it take to help a dead soldier?


--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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new_guy
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Re: Why big bores? [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #27262 - 05/03/05 09:31 AM

In reply to:

new guy,
where did you come up with that at??



ridgerunner ky, I'm sure I remember it from a History class at some point, and although I don't have a copy of the Military's official report, it's pretty commonly known.

here's a link to the refrence of the theory at Military.com

Quote:
What it all boils down to is that when the 5.56mm cartridge was first introduced to U.S. combat rifles, it was adopted because of its size and its fit with the U.S. "shoot-to-wound" philosophy of the time. While the 7.62mm NATO round used in the M-14 is much more powerful than the 5.56mm bullet, it is also much larger; a soldier can carry twice as many 5.56mm bullets as he can 7.62mm. In extended combat operations (wars lasting years), it was also estimated that wounded combatants would require more logistical support than dead ones -- with this in mind, the U.S. adopted the 5.56 round, since if the bullet did not kill outright, it would certainly cause a serious enough injury that the casualty would be hospitalized for a significant amount of time.
End Quote.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Why big bores? [Re: new_guy]
      #27275 - 05/03/05 10:12 PM

This year I took my .357H&H DR deer hunting, did not get a one, but picked off a squirle(sp) Next year I'll be taking my 470 NE DR.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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k80
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Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Why big bores? [Re: bonanza]
      #27327 - 06/03/05 01:05 PM

The only time my 375 was destructive
on deer was when I missed and hit the
the spine. Yes it made a "MUCH" bigger hole.
It usually pokes a quarter{US}size hole
through both sides.

Ken
San Antonio

--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Why big bores? [Re: new_guy]
      #27611 - 11/03/05 04:16 AM

In reply to:

The dead dont recover or shoot back!!!!


------------------------------------------------------------



No, I didn't say they did. It was a military thoery - but ask youself:

How many soldiers does it take to help a wounded soldier?

How many soldiers does it take to help a dead soldier?




The use of full patch bullets was a rule set forth by the Geneva convention. This was set forth in 1864 dealing with soldiers that were sick, wounded, or dead on the battle field! This was amended it about 1900 to include the use of full patch bullets(no Softpoints), in war. The idea was that war is not designed to "KILL" the enemy, but to put him out of order to fight!

Americans are of the mind there will be no soldier left behind, wounded, or dead! This isn't the case with every enemy we have fought in modern times. They habitually leave ther wounded to die, and in many cases booby-trap their dead, for American soldiers to be blown up, when they are moved!

The reason the American army went to the 223, is because the rank, and file recruit today can't shoot heavy kicking rifles, and the ammo is too heavy to carry. There is one thing you need to learn! The armed forces is not a good place to find out what rifles are best for anything! The war weapons today, are used simply to fill the air with bullets, hopeing some of them will hit something! The weapons are stamped out jumk, that the design is dictated by ease of manufacture, and cost.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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new_guy
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Re: Why big bores? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #27617 - 11/03/05 05:40 AM

agreed, i was trying to explain the theory of that era to Alan.

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www.heymUSA.com

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cr500
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Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 213
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: Why big bores? [Re: DucofDeath3]
      #27734 - 13/03/05 05:05 PM

With the speed limits in most countries ,why do people buy cars which will do twice the speed limit? Why do people drool over Ferraris or supercharged V8s? Same thing with big bores. I dont hunt big game much but I shoot big bore rifles a lot. If some is good ,more is better, sometimes.

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