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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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SeanZ
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Kansas City
.404 Jeffery
      #45254 - 30/12/05 09:39 AM

I'm new to the site and looking for advice about a new rifle. I've gotten to the point where I can shoot consistent groups with my .375 H&H, and now I'm thinking maybe a .404 jeffery would be a fun thing to have. I would love to have a double in .450/400 or 450 NE, but that sort of purchase would be financially irresponsible. So far as I have been able to determine, the CZ SC 550 is the only semi-custom/production rifle chambered in .404. If I wait until after January 1, the price jumps from $1750 to $ 2350. Would I be better off just having a custom gun built from scratch on a .375 or .338 action? I'm tempted to scrap the whole idea and just stick with the .375 for my "heavy" rifle and get a nice double in 9.3X74R.
Best Regards....Sean

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thumper
.224 member


Reged: 29/10/05
Posts: 21
Loc: New Mexico, USA
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #45322 - 31/12/05 03:04 AM

You should look through other posts on this site. There seem to be some negative information on the CZ550. That New year price increase does present a problem, but don't do like me (buy now to save some money, then not be really happy with the purchase). Get what you will enjoy, don't settle for less, you will not be happy. Right now, I have the double rifle bug, but I am forcing myself to wait and save to get what I want (this time). Good luck in your search, HNY.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26738
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #45328 - 31/12/05 04:25 AM

I would think a Savage long action rifle, re-barreled would handle the .404 just fine and probably for less than $1,000US total. I have a close friend with a .375 H&H Savage Stainless composite that shoots bugholes forp groups, but most importantly, feeds perfectly. Easily re-barreled and with a bit of rail work, should be just fine in .404. I think he paid something like $550.00 CDN for the NIB rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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dok
.275 member


Reged: 21/04/05
Posts: 87
Loc: NT, Australia
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: DarylS]
      #45397 - 31/12/05 04:30 PM

Just my humble opinion, why not consider the Ruger in 416 Rigby.

I might be a little biased after having a drama with my purchase of a brand new CZ550 (mentioned elsewhere in this forum) but the .416 Rigby offers a lot of variance if you handload or have somone else to handload for you.

The recoil is not that much that if you are shooting at game. It's not the sort of calibre you shoot bench rest anyway.

Save the money and get a Ruger in 416 rigby and put the rest of the money you have saved towards a warne or tally QD mounts and a good quality low power scope...

like i said just my humble opinion and i know what it is like when you have your heart set on a particular calibre.

good luck


--------------------
DOK

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26738
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: dok]
      #45445 - 01/01/06 04:21 AM

I agree, the .416 would be a good choice, but for some reason, I've always had a desire for a .404 personally. It is capable of almost 2,400fps with 400gr. bullets in a good bolt gun with maximum pressure-type loads, and that makes it more than suitable for anything I would ever be shooting at. That makes it capable of duplicating the .416 Rigby factory ammo. Factory level ballistics for the .404 Jeffery are about the same as the .450/.400's and the resulting reduced recoil makes for a much more pleasant round to practise with. Heavy kickers usually are ignored when time comes to practise, while with less recoil the experience gained by practising with the .404 could 'save the day'.
: For factory level ballistics, the .404 uses 30gr. LESS powder than does the .416 Rigby. That makes a substancial difference in felt recoil.
: I'm getting old, and the recoil is wearing on me. I'm also an avid shooter, and must shoot a lot. It's the way I live - to shoot and fish.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (01/01/06 04:22 AM)

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SeanZ
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Kansas City
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: DarylS]
      #45456 - 01/01/06 08:01 AM

Hey guys, thanks for the advice. I can't make up my mind what to buy. But half the fun is trying to make a choice. I'm not a handloader, but I may have to become one if I really want a .404. The only ammo I can find is custom loaded stuff and it is a bit pricey. If I look at ammo costs, the .416 remington would be the logical and practical choice. I don't want to go to a .458 wm or .458 lott, I think that would be way too much recoil.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #45457 - 01/01/06 08:16 AM

It's only been in the last 20 years that anybody even thought about the 416 Rigby. It was never poular or common in the old days.

The 404 is much easier to shoot. My Jeffery didn't even come with a recoil pad but rather a bakelite butt plate. So did my 400 3 1/4 Alex Henry.

Get the 404, it's the King.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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SeanZ
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Kansas City
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: mickey]
      #45517 - 02/01/06 07:01 AM

Thanks for the encouraging words Mickey. Can you spare a few lines to tell me about your .404? Who made it, what's the barrel twist rate, barrel length??? Any info you can provide would be appreciated.....Sean

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #45521 - 02/01/06 08:38 AM

Mine was made by Jeffery. 25 inch barrel, no idea on the twist rate. I have taken a number of Cape Buffalo, 2 Hippo and a bunch of other plains game plus 2 Grizzlies, 3 Moose and a couple of Deer with it.

The original stock cracked last summer so a new one is being made with the exact same configuration. Just a couple of tweaks to fit me better.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26738
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #45674 - 04/01/06 05:25 AM

Sean- the .416 Remington, a Rem 700, that I shot, had more felt recoil than my .458 M70Winchester which was putting 400gr. out at 2,450fps. To obtain 2,400fps, the smaller bore, but larger case requires more powder. Same bullet weight + same velocity + smaller bore size + greater pressure = more recoil. Yes- it has better sectional density than .458, but still kicks more. It has a slightly 'sharper' recoil, which may have been partly stock shape & fit. You would find the .404 and .458 easier to load to lesser, yet still deliver DG performance.
: I'd still go for the .404 - and load for it, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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SeanZ
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Kansas City
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: DarylS]
      #45716 - 04/01/06 11:57 AM

Mickey, thanks for the info about your rifle, it sounds like a joy to shoot. Daryl, thanks for setting me straight about the .416 remington. I always learn something everytime I check this forum. Thanks guys, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Up until April of last year I'd never fired anything larger than a 30-06 (and Happy Birthday to that great cartridge) so this website has opened my eyes to all kinds of previously unknown toys....Sean

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Barrett
.224 member


Reged: 04/01/06
Posts: 1
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #45900 - 06/01/06 03:14 PM

You might want to take a look at Waffenfabrik Hein for your 404 Jeff. Custom guns, reasonably priced in comparison to a lot of others. Here is a link to their website.

www.rifleactions.com

Barrett

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26738
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #45943 - 07/01/06 05:52 AM

Don't get me wrong, the .416Rem is one heck of a ctg., but would not consider one myself. I've always wanted to build up a .404 Jeffery if going to that bore size.
: As well, with top-end loads, a blown '06 case will give about 2,100fps with 400gr. bullets. The base dia. should be in the relm of .470" with a .460 shoulder, similar to a "Gibb's" style of Imp '06 case. Normal IMP '06 runs only .455" on the shoudler with .468" base.
: The case I speak of holds 80gr. of water to the top of the neck. Pretty good for an '06 case, but well under a .404 which is just coasting with 400gr. at 2,150fps. Nice round.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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SeanZ
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/05
Posts: 8
Loc: Kansas City
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: DarylS]
      #45964 - 07/01/06 10:15 AM

Hey Barrett, thanks for the website, they look like nice rifles. I wonder what the traditional rifle shooters would do to me if I got a .404 Jeffery with a synthetic stock....think they would revoke my posting rights before or after I was ex communicated and tarred and feathered???? I already feel like an heretic for mentioning bolt rifles on a double rifle website. I found a nice .404 on Champlins web site for $4400. I'm not sure about spending that much on a bolt gun, a double okay, but a bolt rifle, I just don't know. Daryl, thanks once again for the additional info. I thought about the .416 Remington because I can run to Cabela's and pick up a box and shoot anytime, ammo for the .404 will have to be custom loaded, or I'm going to have to invest some money in a press and other reloading components...later guys...Sean

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sbs470
.333 member


Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 378
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: SeanZ]
      #46088 - 08/01/06 07:47 PM

Sean Z
I have a 404 on a FN 98 action with a 24" barrel and it shoots very well.I have a sako peep sight mounted on the rear scope mount which gives a long sight radius.The stock did have a montecarlo comb and cheek piece which really was a severe pain in the neck.I have since reshaped the stock to the same measurements as my Westley Richards 318"and also altered the pitch.Now I get a lot more enjoyment when shooting this rifle than before with an ill fitting stock.
Go and build yourself a 404. the Ugandan,Kenyan and Tanzanian game departments used the 404 on elephant control.Hey the 404 has some great history
good shooting
sbs470

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masterifleman
.224 member


Reged: 21/01/06
Posts: 3
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: sbs470]
      #47183 - 21/01/06 05:20 AM

I have fired a friends Ruger bolt rifle in .416 Rigby, a .416 Remington that I built for another friend and my own .404 Jeffrey that I built. IMO, both .416's kicked a lot worse than the .404. I have really grown to appreciate the .404. Making one from a Mauser 98 is a tricky project, having to heavily modify the magazine box, follower and rails. I made mine from a Model 70 PF in .300WM and only had to alter the rails and remove the spacer from the magazine box to get it to feed. I didn't even have to open the bolt face or alter the extractor and it works with Norma, BELL and reformed .375 RUM cases.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26738
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .404 Jeffery [Re: masterifleman]
      #47210 - 21/01/06 07:43 AM

I've thought of doing just that to my .458Alaskan, M70. A bolt action .404 would be nice, but then, so's the .458!
: There's always an attraction to something else. This is why wildcats are so popular amongst wildcatters, that is.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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