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bonanza

What the site doesn't cover is that Lupo's PH had to cover his ass with his shooting along Lupo's. In fact, with the big ones, Lupo didn't put 'em down the way it shouldn't have been done. If the PH hadn't shot, Lupo wouldn't have been able to post his pics on Garrett's site.

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Hey Martin, welcome to the site. You will find this place a lot more civilized than some others regarding the 45-70.

Not less opinionated, just more civilized.





Lovu Zdar

Mick

Never Hunt With A Cartridge Younger Than You Are

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Thank's for the Welcome

May i ask ? what is it that you most often use to hunt with
other then like so many say the mind what type of rifle and what cal/ Hope you don't mind me prying.

Thanks again for the welcome to the board .

Just a note about what i drag out on to the field
I hunt in " Very " heavy cover thick brush and i at one time used a s/s 10 Gauge when i lived in alaska i have since change over to the 47/70 GS When i hunt in the more open places on the ranch i use the 9.3x64 butthere are no real big game other then the Elk and Deer. i do one the other hand use the 45/70 to hunt the brush on the ranch
for Couger and for that i use my own bullets thin walls on the jackets and a very deap hollow cavity i want them dead.
Its a pain in the hind end to try and go after anything in the brush last time out i was walking up the side of the cliff and three young cougers popped out not more then 3 feet in front on me i went back down that cliff on my butt
i went one way the rifle went the other if it hadn't of happened to me it would have been funny.
Thats the number one reason i carry the short barrel rifle
if it would have been a mature couger well chances are i would have got a shot off but i would have still been on my behind sliding down that slipper slop going end over end .

Anyway ...Sorry about the rampling on guy and thanks for the welcome to the board
Martin

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Owner PA Bullet's

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May i ask ? what is it that you most often use to hunt with
other then like so many say the mind what type of rifle and what cal/ Hope you don't mind me prying.

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Now that is a complicated question. If I'm at my place in BC I cannot legally hunt without a guide. The fishing is pretty terrific though so, If I'm concerned with Bears, Black and Griz, usually in the Spring when they just have their Cubs, I carry a Mod 71 348. Sometimes a Mod 762 in '06 w/220 grain loads. Small, handy, and potent at the ranges I would have to shoot, 5 yards or less.

I have been thinking of building a 9.3x62 on a BLR. That would be pretty cool.

If on horseback I like the 348 also for Bears as it is very thin, light and with a very light scabbard easy to have around. As you can guess it is well used and not a collector's piece.

When hunting on horseback, bolt action, usually my 340 Weatherby.

In Alaska always the 375 SS Win.

When on foot in the US my 9.3x74R for everything except Mule Deer and Pronghorn, then a 300 H&H by Marholt.

Any of these can be replaced by a mood or whim.

I have had a couple of 45-70 in the Marlin. They are alright but I prefer the 348 with 250 grain bullets for the same things.

I would never take one to Africa. Not because they wouldn't work, they would, mostly, but because there are so many more versitile cartridges and rifles.

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Pottsy

I guess that's what a good safe heavy loaded revolver is for, those close surprises when you can't get your carbine into action. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 45-70 if you use it for what it was made for, shorter distances and up to 150 yds. I still have mine (3) and still love them. It's just I have many other bigger rifles to use for really big stuff and have every confidence that they will do the job (375 H&H, 375 Ultra, 416 Rigby, 458 WM, & 458 Lott). I no longer have a double at the moment but will take care of that in a little while.

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Thank's for the reply guy

Well said ... when i am out there i am not about to drag my Ruger M77 458 it weighs somthing like 16 Lb's Forget that noses My 35x378 weighs somthing like 29 ?+ Lb's that isn't going to happen any time soon this little Marlin is about the most light weight little critter i have ever pack out .

And there is now way on this earth you or anyone else is going to get me to lug this over weight zillion year old
Brno 416 Rigby any place soon save the 40 feet from up stairs to the basemnet to test bullets in
i would part with it but it was dad's

I don't shoot the 45/70 anything over 200 Feet theres no scope on it to start with and i don't want to start trying to make this thing some kind of bench rest rifle
it is what it is .

And as for a handgun i have my 1973 44 Automag i bought
my 29 is almost as big with the 8 3/8's but when i bought that over price shinny stop sign i was a kid and wanted to make sure everyonje knew i have a really cool pistol thats why i got the crome plated vertion god its an eye sore.

The bullet's i make up for my 45/70 for Couger could/should never be use on game a person plains to eat
thay make a hole like the holland tunnel going in and coming out IF thay do make it out.

For me its a case of if i owned Ed Hubel's 700 Hubel express i would make up diffrent bullet's for it diffrent from the ones i do make and i would use it to hunt Couger
although it does weigh a ton Well not quite but the point is that i want the biggest light weight rifle i can use again those couger i have messed up years ago and took it for granted that thay were just an over sized house cat and could be taken down with about any size rifle ..And thay can but if a person doesn't kill them in the first shot and thay get away ...well a wounded couger is no a house cat it a house cat on staroids x 10 .

and having to track a super POed couger into rocky crags with millions of hiding places is no fun and worrying about it popping out and snapping my head off wasn't much fun.


Anyway .. i am rambling again ...


Thanks for the welcome to the board guy


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Owner PA Bullet's

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I have been thinking of building a 9.3x62 on a BLR. That would be pretty cool.

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Thats a good one but i you might want to think just for fun about trying that convertion using the BLR from a 300 Winchester mag to a 50-110 the BLR as you already know is a 55.000 PSI action and one like that rechambered into a
50-110 is the cat's meow you wind up with a lever action thats about the same as a 505 Gibbs.
525 grain at 2350 in a BLR 50-110 is no joke just don't pass your reloaded ammo out to folks with the winchester vertion of the 50-110 i really don't know if it could handle the extra PSI the souped up 50-110 reloaded ammo is running at around 51.000 to 51.800 PSI and no one could every pay me enough to try them out in a Winchester lever action god loves Varge powder thats about all i will say on that topic

Sounds like you have a really nice place to fish
I lived in Alaska for a few years with the wife and kids on the ( Res ) i miss the hunting and fishing but not the state
bird ( White sock )

Those are very good choise's for rilfes to hunt with
are you reloading for your 348 or buying factory ammo?

With your 348 are you using 250 grain bullet's in it ?

as for the /06 i had thought long and hard about having one built with a super short barrel and light weight stock
for these pesky couger its a great all around round
and darn hard to beat for a first time shooter rifle choise

anyway once again i am starting to ramble on

Thanks Micky for your comments and warm welcome to the Board







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Owner PA Bullet's

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Pottsy

I was referring to having a Ruger SA in either 44 Mag or 45 Colt in either a 4 5/8" or 5 1/2" barrel that just sits on your hip with the proper belt/holster combination. The Ruger revolvers in the Bisley configuration is the cat's meow as far handling recoil is concerned. I can't lug my 475 around w/o my shoulder holster for a b/u gun so it has become a primary weapon if I'm not lugging a carbine or another rifle.

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I understand buddy i have thought long and hard about swapping out the over weighted AutoMag for my 4 5/8's 41mag Ruger Single action...
And i understand about the shoulder holster i only have my old fast draw holster for the 41 and have been thinking about getting a pancake for it ..


I got to add somthing here this is about the most polite
board i have every been on guy's


Thanks for the reply's

Martin

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Owner PA Bullet's

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I got to add somthing here this is about the most polite
board i have every been on guy's

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If you go to Announcments you will see a discussion under Code of Conduct that attempts to define us.

So far we have decided not to require a tie.

Mostly we all get along and respect each others views. Even if we disagree.

There are no rules about name calling or rudeness but most members choose not to do either. Obvious BS is handled forth right and promptly by the members. So far trolls and other disagreeable types have left of their own accord. No one has yet been banned.

We have as members some who are considered trolls, or almost trolls on other Forums but they do not behave in a way that is detrimental to this Forum, here. Maybe it is because we have other things to talk about, besides each other?



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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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ya only need one gun

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So ... part with the other ...And part with it ..--> this way if you please ..

You are very right about The bullet it have alot to do with design qualitys in the bullet ..and the jacket it has
or the shape of the soild and if the soild has a hollow out just a cup in its nose.

I can and have made ..what are called - Culling bullet's-

There not somthing you would go out and hunt with .
There 550 Grain .510 Diameter super hollow cavitys in a 0.040 jacket wall the pettles are ment to come off when it reachs a certain size ( around 75 cal ) and ripe the hell out of everything in side and it ripes a hugh hole out the other side. a can almost get a copenhagen can in the hole it make in a 6x6 Oak beam

So if your meat hunting these bullets are a big no no
unless you really like blood shot meat .

There really is nothing wrong with an expert using a 450 marlin or a 50 alaskan or even a 45/70 ..on DG its just not mine or i think anyone elses number one pick or number two pick or 3 or 4 or Etc.

Its kinda like when you go out and only hunt the super old game . or when you go out and pass up 8 or even 20 Big bulls looking for that one perfect one when no others will do . Or only taking long shots that trip out .Its just another way to add alittle flavor the the hunt .

But then again thats just my own two cents worth

Martin


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Owner PA Bullet's

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No one has yet been banned.

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Two members have been banned, one whom asked to be "deleted" and promptly was.


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On the .450 Marlin, almost any cartridge will kill almost any game. A .450 or a .405 or the much debated .45/70 will kill cape buffalo, as will a 6.5x54 mm M-S and a .405 kill a water buffalo.

But they are not ideal and will kill well enough if care and patience is used. One takes one's risks though of loosing the animal or getting injured yourself.

I wonder how many hunters would choose sub-standard rifles if hunting by their own and not with a PH back-up? The first time I went water buffalo hunting I carried a .30-06 with 220gr Norma FMJs, a mate had a 6.5x55 with mil FMJs and the third guy had a semi-auto shotgun with brenneckes. We thought we would have enough firepower if needed. Then we split up anyway and hunted different areas.

Nowadays I do prefer something with more grunt.

"I prefer Grunt, to Stunt!"



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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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The information on Mr. Lupo's hunts is largely being provided by one ammunition maker to boost sales of .45-70 ammunition. The manufacturer in question actually has a web page located here Garrett Cartridges - Penetration: The .45-70 & .458 Magnums which puts forth the argument that his .45-70 loads are superior to .458's, .470's, etc., for use on African game. This unfortunately seems to convince some people that a .45-70 is first choice of armament.

Richard.

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Martin,

Unfortunately articles on the site definitely imply that a .45-70 is superior to a .458.

Quoting from Modern .45-70 Performance "...the 45-70 provides a degree of lethality not generally found with other calibers, even ones producing much greater power. This is best evidenced by comparisons with the mighty 458 Winchester Magnum."

If it were correct in actual practice, it would be a very simple business decision for professional hunters who have seen the results in the field to to rearm themselves with .45-70 Marlins and save a lot of money. They aren't doing that.

Richard.

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Well as to your first point .. Randy is doing ( for good or bad ) what ever it take to sell his loaded rounds.

It does seem that could be construde as a implcation that the 45/70 is some how better then the 458 mag Or Lott which is dead wrong .

There are tests and i myself have done them using a 460 Weatherby and 458 win mag along with the 45/70
The tests in them selfs really dont show the whole picture
but seem to add to the confution on the matter of which is really the best .

The test involves penatration in to a harden object
using one type of bullet in all the rifles in the test .

everyone here knows that at some point no matter what speed you drive your bullet its going to stop ...

So if you take a .458 Diameter 500 grain tapered flat point bullet and load it into a 460 Weatherby and the same bullet into a 458 Win Mag and the same bullet into a 45/70

Your going to wind up with very close to the same deapth of penatration on all three bullet's .

Now with all that said and done i can tell you that it's more of a stunt then a test .
Thats the key to it .." It's a stunt " not a true test

To do the testing right the bullet's must be fired into
some kind of real matter and your going to be looking for far more then just how far you can drive the bullet your going to be looking for what kind of destrution it does on its way in .

You will add the amount of destrution /shock value +
deapth of penatration + bullet design + Bullet over all weight after it comes to a stop + and how much real damage its done to what ever the type of matter you have used ..
Some folks used - Pre formed / moulded containers filled with bone and animal matter .

Some just go to the butch shop and pick up all the old left overs / backs leg bones what ever is around .

Is just as cheap to used a square 5 gallon bucket
fill it part way with gellaton and drop in old bones till the bucket starts to over flow then let it sit and harden .

Stack 10 of them back to back ... that test make alot of diffrents compared to the other tests run
and it will show just how much more real fire power the 460 Weatherby can deliver then the 45/70 and the 458 does
far and away more then the 45/70 .

But not to take away from the 45/70 it is a heck of a round there i question about its fire power.
But does it out do the 404 jeffery or the 458 Win Mag
No but it's alot closer then one might think .

So to sum up .. Randy does over state what the 45/70 does and can do .

But it is one he77 of a round in a modern rifle .
At 2000 FPS using a 400 grain well made bullet
an expert can drop Cape Buffal one right after another.

But why ? when a person can use somthing else ..Maybe
its the challenge like i have said before .

I am not a great hunt i have although kill my fair share of Elk And Deer and Brown Bear and alot of other critters
Would i walk out on the plains of Africa with my 45/70 and shoot at Cape ? maybe maybe not would i be scared to do it nope i do know what my bullets will do .
Would i have someone else go out with me packing just a 45/70 ? tough question ... would i go out with out some other rifle NO . I think that answers the question though.

No i would not go out with out another rifle .
Maybe even my and i do own one thats why i mentioned it before but really din't want to say anything
it's a BLR that was a 300 Win Mag that i had converted to 50-110.. That rifle i would walk out and shoot Cape with
Its more then enough
.

Now to the last statment about PH's rearming themself's
LOL i will let you in on something here there are ... more then a few gent that did go out and buy 45/70 GS
Not for Rhino Not for Cape Buffalo but for Lion.
Now that means nothing it's just a big bore short range
light weight rifle that can stop a lion . it sound cool but thats about the end of it .. and there not using them
to hunt with there only using them for pack into the bush
after wounded lion . alot of these folks still use a shotgun
to finish off the lions as well . so . its just a matter of
what works for them ..

So no all the game guide's are not rushing out to grab 45/70's becouse there not the greatest gun to come down the pike.


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Martin

P.S
Tonights dinner is 3 Lb's of ground Elk and some vegies ....

Your invited if you can get here in the next 20 min


Martin




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Owner PA Bullet's

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Pottsy,

I would bet you could go higher pressure & velocity if you got your hands on an 1886 Winchester, especially if a modern one. One gunsmith years ago actually chambered an 1886 in .300 Winchester Magnum and used it as a single shot to see how much pressure the action could handle. The action did fine with no wear with any load that could be crammed into the .300 Win. Mag. case. The action the smith used was an old 1886, I think 1920's or 1930's vintage.

Richard.

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I don't have to push the one i have to get a good load out of it .
And if i really wanted to stand on it ( god know's why ? )
I would go a BLR 55.000 PSI mag action
but there is no need to do that

The load in question is a compressed load at 40.000 PSI
to start with going to a diffrent rifle would not do anything anyway there just is not any room in the case for
more powder.

I mean why not brake out my M77 Ruger 458 Mag
or my BLR 50-110 .

The 45-70 is what it is and in a GS it's one of the best brush guns i have ever pack out
and in a Cowboy its a hell of a close range Elk and Brown Bear rifle.
And at an easy 40.000 PSI and a 500 grain bullet at 2100FPS
in the cowboy 26 inch barrel 45/70
the next closet rifle is my Ruger 458 at about the same bullistic preformance level.

My 45/70 is not a 458 win mag and my 458 win mag is not
a 45/70 although thay are neck and neck when it comes down! to necks on DG i will be using my 458 win mag thank you

The only real compation for the 45/70 in a GS is a BLR convertion from a 300 win mag to a 50-110 brush gun.

It's beat me packing that 10 ton 10 Ga S/S i used to pack in the brush for Brown Bear.



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Owner PA Bullet's

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