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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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yukon_delta
.224 member


Reged: 15/07/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Palmer, Alaska
A .458 for all seasons?
      #82944 - 23/07/07 11:09 PM

One of the projects I have been pondering is a .458 setup for two purposes...1) daily carry in Alaska; 2) buffalo and elephant in Africa. It needs to be light weight as I walk a lot particularly when hunting in Africa. The Ruger Lott I just sold was too heavy for the power it produced...about 11 pounds unscoped. I'm looking for something in the 8 pound range that is highly weather resistant, 100% reliable and with excellent iron sights that are bomb proof.

How would you set it up if this was your project? Who would do the work? If you have done something like this tell us about it and show us photos? If you have posted something like this in another topic just point me towards it. Thanks.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3494
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: yukon_delta]
      #82951 - 24/07/07 12:37 AM

whydee:
I can't offer much advice of value on Alaskan hunting from this part of the world, but I do remember a couple of articles by those that can. You should dig up a copy of 'Rifle' from Sept/Oct 1985, and check out the article written by Phil Shoemaker, "Alaska Guide Builds a Modern Backup Rifle". He eventually settled on a Mark X Mauser .458 with synthetic stock, tricked-up by Wayne Young of WE's Gun & Machine Shop in Wasilla, Alaska. Interesting reading.

Finn Aagaard's article "The Alaskan Rifle" in American Rifleman Jan 1988 is a good read too, if you're into that stuff. Finn really liked the .458 for both Alaska and Africa. Sorry I can't give any recent references, the current American gun-press does not attract much of my spending.

BTW, the 'standard' guide rifle in Australia's Northern Territory is a short-barrelled, 8 to 9 lb stainless .458 in a synthetic stock, with a battered low-power Leupold on top. They walk the walk in buffalo camp, but they're a pig to sight-in at the bench!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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yukon_delta
.224 member


Reged: 15/07/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Palmer, Alaska
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: Marrakai]
      #82958 - 24/07/07 01:59 AM

Thanks for the article references and Aussie info. I agree with you on the modern press being less than inspirational. I remember reading both of those articles long ago and need to find them. Maybe Phil will jump in here with any updates on what he might do differently if any? Maybe he's in a good mood and would just sell me his ugly rifle. We're practically neighbors after all!

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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: yukon_delta]
      #82963 - 24/07/07 02:42 AM

I recently bought a .458 Win Mag from an Alaskan for exactly the same purpose... although I don't get to do the daily Alaskan thing like you. This one is labeled a "Standard Model." It is a 98 Mauser action with 23" barrel, Hogue overmolded stock, and three leaf express sights. It looks to me like it is based on an M-48 frame and will only dependably handle and cycle two 510 and 500-grain rounds...one in the chamber and one in the magazine...not a good setup for Africa. But it cycles and shoots 350-grain Barnes, 400-grain Federal, and 350-grain Federal softpoints like a champ with three rounds in the magazine. The rifle weighs 9 pounds and the Hogue stock handles recoil very well.
I took it to the range Friday evening and ran twenty assorted rounds through it with no problems. I'd sure examine the Hogue stock before making a final decision. It is the best part of this rifle.
While this rifle isn't perfect it is good enough and I'm going to keep it and learn what works best. I've handled and shot a lot of new .458's that I didn't like nearly as well nor did I think they were as well set up.

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yukon_delta
.224 member


Reged: 15/07/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Palmer, Alaska
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: Plains99]
      #82964 - 24/07/07 02:56 AM

Dodge City...huh, I used to live in Scott City.

I had a Hogue stock on a 10/22 that was nice but I don't prefer it for this application.

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Plains99
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 225
Loc: Dodge City, Kansas, USA
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: yukon_delta]
      #82971 - 24/07/07 04:19 AM

I do a lot of coyote hunting north of Scott City. I rented a cabin at the lake for two years when I taught school at Garden City. It's pretty country when you get away from the flatlands, and I think Scott is a pretty little town. This is my first experience with a Hogue stock and it will be interesting to see how the recoil pad holds up. The gun handles recoil very well. It looks a lot like the new Ruger Alaskan in .375 Ruger. Man, I looked at a lot of .458's and other than going custom, it is a hard decision to make. I liked the Weatherby Dangerous Game but the 24" barrel and price seemed excessive. It will be interesting to hear what you decide on.

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: yukon_delta]
      #82975 - 24/07/07 05:41 AM

If I were building what you describe for my own use, I would start with a Pre-64 Model 70 .30-'06 action with some extraneous holes in it, one that would have absolutely no interest as a collector's gun. I would have the bolt face opened and have it rebarrelled with a 22" barrel, Lyman 48 receiver sight, ramp front sight with sourdough blade, Griffin & Howe side mount with a Leupold 1.5-5X VariX III scope for those occasions when a scope is needed. McMillan fiberglass stock.

Beat up Model 70 actions can still be had at a reasonable price, and the .458 cartridge was designed to fit that action. Since you will only be using the action, stock and barrel condition are unimportant. 8 pounds is about right. You will never notice the recoil shooting at game.

One of my African rifles matches this description, except that I opted for a wood stock and used the magnum action and the full length .450 Watts. The action was one off a rifle I had acquired from an acquaintance who liked to do his own gunsmithing, in this case rechambering a .375 H&H to an "improved" cartridge. In the process, he increased the headspace to the point that it was .021" excessive. He had also fitted it with an Echo side mount which gripped the scope (a Lyman Alaskan) so poorly that he had to install setscrews to stablize it (and cut notches in the scope tube).

In those bygone days, Lyman would do almost anything to a scope, including, in this case, replacing the tube and reticle at a nominal cost, and Winchester replaced the receiver and barrel of the .375, leaving me with a spare receiver, which became the basis for my .450 Watts. Using a blank base for the G&H side mount, I was able to put the screw holes for the Echo mount to good use, with the addition of the two obligatory hardened taper pins G&H provides. Thirty-five years later the rig still holds up well.

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yukon_delta
.224 member


Reged: 15/07/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Palmer, Alaska
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: xausa]
      #82986 - 24/07/07 07:27 AM

I used to work at Lake Scott State park many moons ago. Nice place.

Xausa, I like your sight choices and have used them in the past. You're right about the recoil as it doesn't concern me at 7-8 pounds. I shoot a .50 Alaskan levergun, 500 grains at about 1950 and it weighs 7 pounds. Bolt guns of similar specs feel downright cushy after that due to a much better stock design.

I'll have to ponder the pre '64 action as well as the Interarms (which is what my Zim PH uses in a 458).

Keep the ideas coming and show some photos too.

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Schamankungulo
.300 member


Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: yukon_delta]
      #83692 - 08/08/07 05:28 AM

Do like my current 458 Lott , trim barrel back to 22" , change crank handle , lighter CZ European style stock , is a 5 shooter + 1 .. NECG open sights ..
Shoot Winnies or Lotts .. 8.7#

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yukon_delta
.224 member


Reged: 15/07/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Palmer, Alaska
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #83731 - 08/08/07 10:50 PM

Schamankungulo, any photos? I didn't know the CZ was a 5 shot mag. That weight is about right.

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Schamankungulo
.300 member


Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: yukon_delta]
      #83734 - 08/08/07 11:38 PM

Where do I have the option to copy pics on here , and you'll see 'em !!

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Schamankungulo
.300 member


Reged: 21/04/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: Schamankungulo]
      #83753 - 09/08/07 07:03 AM

yuke PM sent ...

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: A .458 for all seasons? [Re: yukon_delta]
      #83763 - 09/08/07 12:51 PM

If it was me I would contact Gentry Gunsmithing in Belgrade, MT--he builds larger guns such as this on Winchester actions or an action of your choice--I looked at some of his guns at a FNAWS convention here in town a few years back --really good workmanship and not too bad of a price--I and they were in the 8 to 9 lb range--I am sure he would built to your specifications.I was actually contemplating calling him regarding something similar for myself--I would use a synthetic stock simply from a durability standpoint--you could use a stainless action and barrel and have it coated with a flat black to eliminate glare--express sights and slap on a Leupold VX-III, 1-5 power and you would be set..-- I would choose the 458 Lott caliber if it was me..
Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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