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Bonde
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Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery
      #221656 - 15/12/12 08:46 AM

Planning to rebarrel a close to mint condition M98 from FN from 9,3 to .404 Jeffery.

I know it's a big job - but still want to have a M98 with the shorter stroke, better handling etc. Most .404s were std lenght M98 actions too?

I hope You gentlemen have some sound advice for me?

What kind of bottom metal should I go for? Lenghtening the original one will give med 3 catridges, a custom one 4 or 5? What are my alternatives?
I can live with 3 rounds capacity.

I'm a bit confused when it comes to sights - what would you do?

1: Shallow V and silver bead + flip-up "moon bead".
2: Ghost sight and silver bead + flip-up "moon bead".
3: one of the above plus a telescopic sight:
a) German Pivot mount + 1,5-6x42 Zeiss
b) German Pivot mount + VXIII 2,5-8x36
c) Leupold QR + VXIII 2,5-8x36
d) Leupold QR + 1,5-6x42 Zeiss

I'm quite fond of higher magnification as you see...

I'd like the rifle to have a classic english look with cheek piece, a rounded pistolgripend, ebony forend tip, red recoil pad, perhaps no quarterrib only an island for the V shaped backsight. Only want one standing leaf, no folded down leaves..

I'd very much like a easy handling rifle, balanced like a shotgun, and would like it to weigh max 9lbs, preferrably 8,5lbs + scope.

Anything I should be aware of?

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tophet1
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #221671 - 15/12/12 01:53 PM

It will be a whole lot cheaper with a lot less heart-ache to just buy a CZ in .404 and modify it to suit you.

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albertan
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: tophet1]
      #221688 - 15/12/12 06:00 PM

I like the 9.3x62 mm. In a Husqvarna the stock dimensions make adding a scope a difficult job. You need about 5- 6 inches of eye relief to pull it off due to the large amount of drop in the heal. The plastic butt plate needs replacement. The soft wood in the action area requiring glass bedding, a couple of cross bolts, and a rear action screw pillar. I have always epoxied an aluminium rod into the wrist of the stock to prevent splitting in the wrist area. They are famous for this. I have played with a few Husky's and know what it costs.

They are a light gun. A 9.3x62 mm is a mild cartridge compared to a big bore. The 9.3 is also a standard length cartridge. A .404 is just as long as a .375 H&H. As the case is much fatter, opening up the bolt face, the magazine, and the feed rails is not the job for an amateur. A gunsmith of this calibre will not be cheap, nor will he be fast. You will have to take a number and wait in line.

If you don't want an action that will handle a .505 Gibbs (CZ magnum)then get a New Winchester in .375 H&H and screw on a new barrel. It will be cheaper. They come in .416 Remington and .458 Winchester as well. The magazine box will accommodate the .404, the action is bedded and cross bolted. A good recoil pad is already installed, and the gun is a proper weight for a big bore cartridge.

Just my opinion, for what it is worth.

albertan


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Bonde
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: albertan]
      #221695 - 15/12/12 09:22 PM

Thanks!

I´ve thought long an hard on the matter, and will take the extra cost modifying the M98.

So far I´ve only thought of the european pivot mounts, and Leupold QR, but is it possible to mount the Talley very low too?

I´d be very happy if someone would post a picture of a rifle with the Talley scope mount.

That would be a very classic mount, wouldn´t it?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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ozhunter
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #221718 - 16/12/12 07:30 AM

Talleys;


Recknagel;


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Bonde
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: ozhunter]
      #221720 - 16/12/12 07:55 AM

Thanks!

Which is the lowest mount?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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eagle27
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #221734 - 16/12/12 10:09 AM

Quote:

Thanks!

Which is the lowest mount?




You can't get any lower than this on my 404



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Caprivi
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #221763 - 17/12/12 03:02 AM

Quote:

Planning to rebarrel a close to mint condition M98 from FN from 9,3 to .404 Jeffery.

What kind of bottom metal should I go for? Lenghtening the original one will give med 3 catridges, a custom one 4 or 5? What are my alternatives?
I can live with 3 rounds capacity.
Quote:



Converting a "standard" M98 to a 404 is done all the time, no sweat. If you can "live" with the 3 round stay with that. Expense and weight wise that is a sound way, thou tough to not like that profile of a drop 5 round. Also it is a bit easier to balance the rifle. Especially if you prefer a bit longer barrel.

Quote:

I'm a bit confused when it comes to sights - what would you do?

1: Shallow V and silver bead + flip-up "moon bead".
2: Ghost sight and silver bead + flip-up "moon bead".
3: one of the above plus a telescopic sight:
a) German Pivot mount + 1,5-6x42 Zeiss
b) German Pivot mount + VXIII 2,5-8x36
c) Leupold QR + VXIII 2,5-8x36
d) Leupold QR + 1,5-6x42 Zeiss

I'm quite fond of higher magnification as you see...
Quote:



I like option 3, utilizing sight option 1. Providing of course you want/need a scope. A 404 can surely be a 250yd rifle and a 6x scope would make that easily.

With a M98 I am always at a dilema on commercial detachable scope hardware. I find them all too high, then the sights need to be high to see over tham, then the stock comb becomes too straight and then.........etc...you get the idea. Your ??? on Talley's. They are a option, sort of. When I was still in the business, I used there detachable rings with tiny custom bases. I made up a small base for the rear bridge, then again made a small base that went on the barrel, over the chamber. On certain barrel contours (if balance called for a bit heavier) I would machine the dovetail into the chamber area it self. The object is not to let it be higher thatn the receiver ring. The object of back up iron sights (or the object of said sights with a back up scope, as I veiw it) is for them to be there when needed as well as useable. A Medium like a 404 is a damn fine Buffalo rifle, near perfect for a Lord Derby Eland, would be very cool in the Black after elk, jumping whitetails in the river bottom, hogs most anywhere..........
............sorry for the long opininated diatribe

Quote:


I'd like the rifle to have a classic english look with cheek piece, a rounded pistolgripend, ebony forend tip, red recoil pad, perhaps no quarterrib only an island for the V shaped backsight. Only want one standing leaf, no folded down leaves..
I'd very much like a easy handling rifle, balanced like a shotgun, and would like it to weigh max 9lbs, preferrably 8,5lbs + scope.
Anything I should be aware of?




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To live life as it is handed to me from God


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DarylS
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Caprivi]
      #221765 - 17/12/12 03:46 AM

The low Weaver Rings pretty much hold the low is good title. The 2X Leupold is the cat's ass for this as well. I had the same rigging on my .458 Alaskan, except the scope mounted normally, on both action bridges/rings.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Sauercollector
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: DarylS]
      #221857 - 18/12/12 01:21 PM

I have just had a .404 built on SSB Mauser 98 which was originally chambered in 30-06. The suggestions noted above are on the mark regarding the amount of time and money required to do a custom build. I was fortunate in several ways regarding my project as the action that was purchased had original styled scope rings which were sized for a 30mm scope. Ended up picking up a used Swarvoski in in 2.5-6x in fairly good (useable-not mint) condition for a fair price. A Chrome Moly Krieger bbl was ordered and purchased (6 month wait) and new bottom metal and follower from Duane Weibe was purchased along with a new 3 position safety and new trigger from two different vendors. Then all of the components were sent off to a well regarded gunsmith/gun builder who agreed to take on the project but only to do the metal work (barrel install with chambering, bottom metal fit, trigger install and adjust) and to open up the rails for feeding and chambering. Also had a three leaf rear and ramped front sight installed by the same builder. This has been about an 18 month project thus far and I am supposed to get the completed metal back the week after Christmas 2012. All in all unless you really have the time and $$$ to do the project right I would go with what is suggested above (CZ etc). Actually, and if you are a patient sort, .404 '98 Mausers will occasionally pop up for sale at US auction houses and these can be purchased much more inexpensively than do a custom build on a '98 action. You may ask why I took the time and spent the money for the project noted above. The answer is easy. It was because the action that I used is an original factory single square bridge Mauser 98(it was sans barrel) with those 30 mm rings. All in all a incredibly rare find and what better way to bring an old action back to life but to have it done up in a truly classic low pressure African cartridge. The .404 Jeffery. It was a natural choice and I don't regret it one bit. Jeff S.

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Bonde
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Sauercollector]
      #222598 - 31/12/12 04:52 AM

Thank you for sound advice!

I am however thinking of cutting costs and go for a 10,75x68 in stead.

Would that round be ok for 400grs solids on elephant...? I suppose it can be loaded up with modern powders?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

Edited by bonde (01/01/13 08:03 AM)


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Igorrock
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #222601 - 31/12/12 05:30 AM

This could be an easy answer to you:

http://www.beverensport.no/products/gustav-genschow-co-modell-98



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Bonde
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Igorrock]
      #222613 - 31/12/12 09:33 AM

Thanks! I'll og have a look at it over new year!

It should be possible to load the 10,75x68 with 400grs solid to App 2100fps? That equals the .450/400!
Any thoughts regarding barreltwist?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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eagle27
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #222652 - 31/12/12 06:48 PM

Quote:

Thanks! I'll og have a look at it over new year!

It should be possible to load the 10,75x68 with 400grs solid to App 2100fps? That equals the .450/400!
Any thoughts regarding barreltwist?




The rifling twist in my Oberndorf sporter now opened up to 404J but originally a 10.75x68, is 14.17 turns to the inch according to the early Mauser specifications. It groups 400gr bullets accurately with no sign of instability and the original 347gr projectiles are very accurate. I have never tried any of the longer monometals such as the Barnes 400gr so do not know if this slow twist would stabilise such a long projectile.


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grandveneur
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #222654 - 31/12/12 08:30 PM

It should be possible to load the 10,75x68 with 400grs solid to App 2100fps? That equals the .450/400!
Any thoughts regarding barreltwist?




You can load a 400grs , with a lower velocity , never equal the 450/400NE and the risk of poor penetration by shooting big game ! There are load data in the reloading manual of RWS .

The 10,75x68 is marginal for big game hunting , it's a good cartridge for heavy game at short to medium range . The 11,2x72 Schüler is a step up , with a lot of another problems . All this cartridges are compromises .

If you like classic old cartridges it's better to use a 404 Jeffery or a 416 Rigby for a safe big game hunting .


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kamilaroi
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #222655 - 31/12/12 09:32 PM

IIRC the current loads for the 10.75x68 equal the old factory of the 404 Jeff and now the 404 is loaded (by RWS and others)to equal the original factory 416 Rigby (Kynoch) at 2400.

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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #222656 - 31/12/12 10:02 PM

Quote:

It should be possible to load the 10,75x68 with 400grs solid to App 2100fps? That equals the .450/400!
Any thoughts regarding barreltwist?




You can load a 400grs , with a lower velocity , never equal the 450/400NE and the risk of poor penetration by shooting big game ! There are load data in the reloading manual of RWS .

The 10,75x68 is marginal for big game hunting , it's a good cartridge for heavy game at short to medium range .




I think its not fair against the good old 10,75.

there is a Deva PROOFED load for the 400 grains woodleigh bullet iirc with Vithavuori N 550 that can do this. N 550 is a wonder powder that was also able to make the old 9,3x72R legal on big game again in germany.

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grandveneur
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery *DELETED* [Re: lancaster]
      #222657 - 31/12/12 11:04 PM

Post deleted by grandveneur

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Bonde
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: grandveneur]
      #222681 - 01/01/13 12:02 PM

Thank you very much for the feedback - I see that my idea is a "no-go".. I really appreciate to learn of your experiences rather than having to do it over again myself.

Back to minimum .450/.400 plan..!

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eagle27
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #222688 - 01/01/13 02:20 PM

Quote:

Thank you very much for the feedback - I see that my idea is a "no-go".. I really appreciate to learn of your experiences rather than having to do it over again myself.

Back to minimum .450/.400 plan..!




Apart from cases being more difficult to obtain, why are you writing off the idea of a 10.75x68. It is much easier to set up a standard length action for this cartridge and despite what some are posting the .423 400gr at or near 2100fps is plenty for big DG. The early 404 loadings at this velocity accomplished everything required.
For some reason it seems that some think that the 40cals need to hit 2300 - 2400fps or higher to perform and supposedly get the penetration needed for big game and yet those same posters seem accepting of all the other larger calibres including the popular 458Win only needing to be doing 2000 - 2200 or thereabouts to perform. This just not stack up. Of course these velocities are the oft published ones. Many guns will not necessarily reach these velocities with factory ammo but still do the job. Remember too that most of the older advertised factory velocities were in 28" or 30" barrels which of course nobody uses these days or even much back then. The 425 WR got a little unpopular because of its unhandy 28" barrel.

My own Mauser 404 having had a long throat provided for monometals puts out 100fps less than factory advertised velocities (Parker Hale and Kynoch) but I did not notice buffalo getting their nuts in a twist about this.
The Type A Mauser was opened up to 404 before I got it but it sure would have been a sweet rifle to have now in the original 10.75x68 guise using modern bullets and powders.
Why does everyone think the .450/400 is a perfect cartridge (and it is) when it is easily duplicated by the 10.75x68 or 10.75x73 (404J) with a larger cross section bullet to boot?


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Bonde
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: eagle27]
      #222707 - 02/01/13 05:35 AM

Apparently someone has succeeded in gettingthe 400grs up to acceptable speed:

From Wildt&Hund forum:

Wer aber trotzdem ein 400 gr meint zu brauchen:

400 gr Woodleigh TMR vor 68 gr N 140 vor CCI 250 in RWS Hülse ergibt bei einer L6 von 83,20 mm eine V3 von 660 m/sec.
Diese Laborierung wurde bei der DEVA geprüft. Verwendung natürlich auf eigene Gefahr.
Damit erreicht man aus der relativ kleinen Hülse die ursprüngliche Leistung der englischen .404 Jeffery oder der 450/ N.E. 3" bzw. 3 1/4" Patronen.

I hope some of our german members might correct me if I´m mistaken, but as I see Deva has proofed the 400 grs Woodleigh to 2150fps with 68grs of N140.

The N550 is suppose to give more velocity for the same pressure?

Has anyone tested the N550 powder in 10,75x68?

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"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
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kuduae
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Re: Husky M98 FN Browning in 9,3x62 to .404 Jeffery [Re: Bonde]
      #222718 - 02/01/13 06:55 AM

The DEVA, the German institute for testing of hunting and sporting arms, is an organisation independent of the guns & ammo industry. Members are of course German gunmakers from factories to small country gunsmithes, the German hunters and target shooters associations as well as many individual members, hunters, handloaders and target shooters. Every member may have his home-brewed loads tested there for pressure, velocity and consistency.
"DEVA tested" means this 10.75x68 load, 400gr Woodleigh in front of 68gr VV N140 and a CCI 250 primer in an RWS case, cartridge over all length 83.2 mm, gave an instrumental velocity 3 meters from the muzzle of 2165 fps from their 65 cm = 26" test barrel. Further this load was within the CIP working pressure limit of 3300 bar (electric transducer) for the 10.75x68.


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