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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Ripp
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Loc: Montana, USA
Ruger .416 shorty....
      #117961 - 30/10/08 11:59 PM

Talked to a inside type guy last Friday---the Ruger in .416 us a reality and will be heading our way in 2009..although probably will not offer more than the others...can never have too many different big bore calibers..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #117963 - 31/10/08 12:02 AM



Agreed! I love them all I look forward to reading the reviews.

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BFaucett
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #118631 - 10/11/08 10:15 AM

Just FYI.

The .416 Ruger on Hornady's web site:
http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=790

Product Spec Sheet (pdf file)
http://www.hornady.com/images/sell_sheets/09-dangerous_game.pdf

Cheers!
-Bob F.


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bigmaxx
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: BFaucett]
      #118635 - 10/11/08 01:21 PM

Good news Ripp, I cant wait!!!

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One day at a time...


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munk
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: bigmaxx]
      #118640 - 10/11/08 04:20 PM

I noticed Hornady also is making the 338 XLT Marlin, a .338 cal 200 gr bullet with a BC of about .430 traveling at 2560 fps.

Lever fans will be happy.

Does the Ruger case have more capacity than the older 416 Rem? It would be nice if the new Ruger round could make the 400 gr bullet at 2400 fps without the pressure of the 416 Remington. I've read the Remington gets sticky in the heat.


munk


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: munk]
      #118658 - 11/11/08 01:18 AM

Quote:

I noticed Hornady also is making the 338 XLT Marlin, a .338 cal 200 gr bullet with a BC of about .430 traveling at 2560 fps.

Lever fans will be happy.

Does the Ruger case have more capacity than the older 416 Rem? It would be nice if the new Ruger round could make the 400 gr bullet at 2400 fps without the pressure of the 416 Remington. I've read the Remington gets sticky in the heat.


munk



++++++++++++++



IMHO, The "sticky" issue is a lot of BS...regarding the Rem .416...have used it on 4 hunts in Africa in temps up to 118F...never had a bit of a problem ...ever...

another thing I noticed when I was in Zim this year...3 of the PH's in camp were carrying rifles in .416 Rem...can hardly believe they would do so if there was a problem with it..talked to them on this very issue...again, none of them had expreienced a problem..and they do this every day...good enough for them..good enough for me...

When I head over to hunt bull elephant..this will be going with me again...without a doubt...

Thanks

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #121136 - 14/12/08 07:11 AM

FYI---Saw in SPORTAFIELD magazine last night two different advertisments regarding an offering for the .416 Ruger ammo--talked to Ruger yesterday...supposedly the firearms will be available early 2009...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Blank
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Reged: 10/12/07
Posts: 20
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #122904 - 03/01/09 04:56 PM

Mine arrived today, and it was love at first sight. Made a full post over at AR, but the gist of it is - WOW! 9# even with an old-style steel K3 Weaver, and it balances and handles great. Should be the ultimate close cover gun. Love that big white front sight.

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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Blank]
      #122942 - 04/01/09 09:13 AM

Congrats on the new gun--can't wait for you to fire that baby up and see how she shoots..

You are right--think it will make for an awesome close cover gun with the short barrel and all..saw an article yesterday where Hornady is stating they are getting around 2325 fps with a 20" barrel...which if accurate, would be really good...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

Edited by Ripp (05/01/09 01:23 AM)


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #123090 - 06/01/09 01:41 AM

Info from the Hornady website...

Ripp


http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=790

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Blank
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124614 - 20/01/09 04:24 PM

Ammo arrived and it seems to cycle and function just fine. Will probably have to wait until after SCI to get a range report, but that is not too long. DGX on left of my 450/400 3" and DGS on the right.



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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Blank]
      #124661 - 21/01/09 01:40 AM

cool looking cartridge..Have to let us know how it shoots...

Maybe you and 9.3x57 can get together and do some skull tests....

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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ChinaFleetSailor
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124867 - 22/01/09 03:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I noticed Hornady also is making the 338 XLT Marlin, a .338 cal 200 gr bullet with a BC of about .430 traveling at 2560 fps.

Lever fans will be happy.

Does the Ruger case have more capacity than the older 416 Rem? It would be nice if the new Ruger round could make the 400 gr bullet at 2400 fps without the pressure of the 416 Remington. I've read the Remington gets sticky in the heat.


munk



++++++++++++++



IMHO, The "sticky" issue is a lot of BS...regarding the Rem .416...have used it on 4 hunts in Africa in temps up to 118F...never had a bit of a problem ...ever...

another thing I noticed when I was in Zim this year...3 of the PH's in camp were carrying rifles in .416 Rem...can hardly believe they would do so if there was a problem with it..talked to them on this very issue...again, none of them had expreienced a problem..and they do this every day...good enough for them..good enough for me...

When I head over to hunt bull elephant..this will be going with me again...without a doubt...

Thanks

Ripp




It's probably true that the "sticky" issue isn't an issue now, & may not have been for a long, long time. But I don't believe the reports early on of pressure problems were imaginary issues, either. And by early on I mean up until about 10 years ago.

African Hunter magazine may be the main "culprit" here. They report on rifles and cartridges used during at the annual PH & Guides test/refresher training course in Zimbabwe. And apparently there have been problems with some .416Rem ammo, and Remington rifles in 416Rem in particular. It's the kind of issue that, if it happens, the rifle & cartridge get a stink attached that lingers on after the real bug has been worked out. Particularly when that info gets preserved in book form like "Ndlovu," which is African Hunter magazine's guide to hunting elephant. It's a great book, and I'm sure the info about actually hunting elephant will remain valid as long as there are elephants to hunt, but what may have been perfectly valid rifle/cartridge info when the book was compiled may not represent the state of manufacturing a couple of years later. If your ammo is fairly fresh it isn't a problem anymore.

Still, some people hold onto and use old ammo for a long time. I know some old deer hunters who last bought a new box of ammo 15 years ago, which means they have 5 years to go before they'll need a new box. PHs, I hear, fall into the same general category. So leave some extra ammo if its legal. I know I'd feel better, at least, knowing that if I went back a year or two later he'd rotated some reasonably new stock onto his cartridge belt.

Anyway, I hope the Ruger round doesn't have any teething problems. I'm trying to talk a friend into going to Cameroon with me in 2010 and he's looking at getting one. Let us know how it shoots.


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124893 - 23/01/09 01:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Still, some people hold onto and use old ammo for a long time. I know some old deer hunters who last bought a new box of ammo 15 years ago, which means they have 5 years to go before they'll need a new box. PHs, I hear, fall into the same general category. So leave some extra ammo if its legal. I know I'd feel better, at least, knowing that if I went back a year or two later he'd rotated some reasonably new stock onto his cartridge belt.





Think some of what you said about may be the culprit..have hunted with quite a few PH's in various parts of Africa...they day to day care of firearms, at least what I have seen, is less than desirable...ie, they maybe don't clean them as often as they should...guess my point is, perhaps that could at least conceivably, be part of the "sticky" issue...

Oh, don't worry, all the tests on the new Ruger will confirm its a better cartridge and the older ones like the .416 Rigby, Hoffman, or even the newer editions such as Remington and Weatherby are not nearly as efficent....oddly enough however, year after year those same said cartridges continue to take down game with a hitch...

They may not hit the Rigby too hard as they still sell guns chambered in that round...found it really interesting that in some of their advertising for this they mention the 415 Hoffman and yet don't mention the Remington or Weatherby rounds...gee, why do you suppose that is.??

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124895 - 23/01/09 01:59 AM

This whole discussion is very interesting.

Slightly OT I guess...

Not that it'll EVER happen, but I personally would love to see a military Ordnance-style test of supposedly dead-reliable Dangerous Game rifles and ammunition.

Comparative testing of rifles complete with sand, mud, rust {sal ammoniac immersion}, squib and overload ammo testing along with testing of corroded ammo.

Truthfully, such guns would not have to be tested to destruction. Parameters could be modified to leave a gun functional while still exposing probable areas of weakness and flaws that very truthfully could put a hunter in real danger.

Such test parameters are pretty easy to establish per old Ordnance documents.

Such a test would separate the Rock Stars from the Groupies and I am pretty certain some very Sacred Cows would wind up in the barbeque pit.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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ChinaFleetSailor
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124901 - 23/01/09 03:43 AM

Quote:

Such test parameters are pretty easy to establish per old Ordnance documents.

Such a test would separate the Rock Stars from the Groupies and I am pretty certain some very Sacred Cows would wind up in the barbeque pit.




I doubt that'd happen. The part about the sacred cows winding up in the barbeque pit. If that test dumped on someone's sacred cow, your copy of the test results would wind up in the barbeque pit first.

I mean, I tell myself that I'm an entirely rational purchaser of firearms. That my choice of the CZ550 in .416 Rigby was based entirely on an objective evaluation of the attributes of available 40 caliber factory rifles/cartridges at the time I bought it. Which would have been mid-2000, so essentially what's in the 1999 Gun Digest.

It's sort of like cars. If you need one now, then you have to buy what's available now. You can't wait for the "perfect" 2012 model to hit the dealer's floor.

Obviously, 9 years later things are different, and my rational side tells me my choice could be different. Time hasn't stood still. New rifles & cartridges are available, and whatever problems the .416Rem had then have been solved, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah. But after having the rifle for nearly 10 years and customizing to suit me I've sort of become attached to it, and when someone starts spouting off about how much better the .416 this or that is than Rigby, my instantaneous first reaction is more like "What the !$#% did you say about my rifle?!" than "Let's look at the facts; a cartridge case is just a piece of brass, and it's kind of stupid to get ticked off about what someone said about a piece of brass."

I will tell you this; you'd practically have to convince me that my Rigby can't possibly work anymore and the new and better rifle/cartridge combos transport themselves without me having to carry them before I'd give up my considerable investment and exchange it for something "better, slimmer, trimmer," etc. Both my rational side and my reptilian brain agree on that.

But it wouldn't stop me from, say, recommending to my friend who may go to Cameroon with me & isn't a reloader and is on a pretty tight budget what with the new kid and all, that he ought to take a serious look at the Hawkeye in .416 Ruger as it may be an ideal choice for him.

Although I do have to admit he has good taste. After handling my CZ550 .416 Rigby that's been customized by American Hunting Rifles, he has the sense to admit it is vastly superior to ALL other rifles and will reliably slay large dangerous beasts like NO Remington or Weatherby could ever hope to.

So there.


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Isopeura
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124902 - 23/01/09 04:13 AM

This is how I see new Ruger cartridges:

In my opinion, these cartridges do what they do very well, except when compared to their ancestors. .375 H&H is still a functional king (or queen) and it is among the easier ones in feeding department. .416 is one of the trickier ones to make feed properly, but still manageable.

Short and fat cases in general are not as easy from the gunmakers point of view. Feeding is the most difficult thing in general and these cartridges don't make that job any easier. What comes to pressures, however, I'm certain that these cartridges are not a problem since at least from .375 Ruger I've had some really mean velocities without bad pressures. Actually the discomfort towards shooter starts a bit earlier than case sticking.

IMHO, The reason for these cartridges existence, however, seems to be a bit worse than I'd like to imagine. How many is still talking about the Big Rugers (Safari Magnums) at the moment? No one. And this seems to be the true meaning of these cartridges - to drop one rifle action and build all of the rifles using one less action size. I don't like the idea of being right on this one, but I think that we have lately seen some mean tricks in order of cutting manufacturing costs...


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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124903 - 23/01/09 04:22 AM

CFS:

What I am interested in would be a test to uncover typical design warts that can be expected of a gun when used under severe conditions. Most modern non-military weapons of any sort are not subjected to severe use and indeed, with the current wars we are fighting, higher echelon repair facilities are available to most units han was the case in many past wars.

DG hunting is frequently compared to war fighting and it only seems comon sense that a gun that might be needed to save a life should have all its weaknesses known to the hunter before the Day arrives. Back when I was selling guns, I told guys to work them hard and "beat them up a bit" but most were afraid to even rack the bolts hard for fear of "breaking it"...

You are right tho, maybe most think that a gun gets a great reputation because it never goes wrong. This is not, of course, true. ALL gun designs have limits, conditions under which they fail, and service life expectancies, both as a result of repeated mechanical functioning and subjection to repeated firing of live ammo.

Ordnance tests are fascinating reading because they expose each weapon's weaknesses, and then The-powers-That-Be have to decide which weakness or collection of weaknesses is less objectionable than anothers and then choose between the guns.

I just happen to be a Ruger M77MKII fan and they are my favorite modern mass production rifle actions. They have garnered a pretty solid reputation for reliability, but even the MKII has a couple weak spots that I personally would address before I would consider it acceptable off the shelf for DG hunting, or really, any hunting where alot of money exchanged hands. Especially with a large round like the .416, and ESPECIALLY when that round and rifle match is new and relatively untested {that is, the functioning of the round in multiple mass produced guns over time}.

All guns have warts. All of them. All my new guns acquire scuffs and dings and dents and such in the first weeks of ownership as I play with them and mess with them to purposefully find where their warts are. And always I uncover some, most of the time pretty early on.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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9.3x57
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Isopeura]
      #124904 - 23/01/09 04:25 AM

Quote:

This is how I see new Ruger cartridges...




+++1 with your whole post, Iso!

The new Ruger .416 looks like a really good one, but how committed are they to keeping it around I wonder, and how committed are buyers to encouraging them to do so?

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124909 - 23/01/09 04:52 AM

[quote
Although I do have to admit he has good taste. After handling my CZ550 .416 Rigby that's been customized by American Hunting Rifles, he has the sense to admit it is vastly superior to ALL other rifles and will reliably slay large dangerous beasts like NO Remington or Weatherby could ever hope to.

So there.




Whoa! Let's not get outta hand, here.

--------------------


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JabaliHunter
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124913 - 23/01/09 05:01 AM

Quote:

Not that it'll EVER happen, but I personally would love to see a military Ordnance-style test of supposedly dead-reliable Dangerous Game rifles and ammunition.

Comparative testing of rifles complete with sand, mud, rust {sal ammoniac immersion}, squib and overload ammo testing along with testing of corroded ammo.



You just stay away from my rifles!


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #124917 - 23/01/09 05:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:


I will tell
Although I do have to admit he has good taste. After handling my CZ550 .416 Rigby that's been customized by American Hunting Rifles, he has the sense to admit it is vastly superior to ALL other rifles and will reliably slay large dangerous beasts like NO Remington or Weatherby could ever hope to.

So there.



========



Yeah, and with a soft touch while rubbing my rear-end...I'll bend over and start dropping silver dollars into a bucket for you too...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: 9.3x57]
      #124918 - 23/01/09 05:45 AM

Quote:

Quote:

This is how I see new Ruger cartridges...




+++1 with your whole post, Iso!

The new Ruger .416 looks like a really good one, but how committed are they to keeping it around I wonder, and how committed are buyers to encouraging them to do so?



+++++++++==

9.3

Predict they will sell a pile of them this year...sales were considerably over their expectations in regards to their 375---

Seems as though interest in Africa has really exploded--BUT...then you have the world economy mess..that will certainly play a big part into how that continues...

I plan to get one for my son,,,if for no other reason than to show how much better and efficient it is than the Rigby..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Con
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Ripp]
      #124920 - 23/01/09 07:20 AM

Isopeura,
I agree with the main thrust of your post, put these Ruger cartridges are fantastic at breaking the CRF and H&H length action premium that we've been forced to pay for many years. Recently Remington addded the 375H&H to the SPS line ... why has it taken so long and why have we been paying almost $600 extra to see a 0.375cal barrel and H&H stamped on it when the Remington/Savage/Howa 'magnum' bolt faced actions are all H&H length??

The Ruger RSM in my opinion was brought to market as Bill Ruger wanted to see the 416 revived and selected the 416Rigby over the 416Taylor ... its a heavy action and way too expensive in 375H&H ... especially in Australia. If Ruger introduced the 505Gibbs and/or 500Jeffery ... then the RSM would have a purpose.

The Ruger cartridges also bring to market a lighter/trimmer package then has been seen before, its a good concept!
Cheers...
Con


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger .416 shorty.... [Re: Con]
      #124921 - 23/01/09 07:29 AM


I think we should all be happy that we have choices to make and there are plenty of them to suit anyone's preferences whether for bigger, slower, faster, longer, shorter.....we have them all. If the Ruger generates even more interest in big bore rifles because it's more appealing to fans of Ruger and shorter cartridges, then great. Maybe it'll lower the prices of the competitors who may lose a little market share. If you want to see a choked category, look at the world of .22's and .30's!

--------------------


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