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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver
      #84733 - 27/08/07 05:38 PM

If anyone is planning a Zimbabwe hunt, or has one booked please contact me.

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84736 - 27/08/07 05:59 PM



Why not just post the info ?


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
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Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: 500Nitro]
      #84738 - 27/08/07 08:12 PM

hey paradox

lets hear the story it is allways better to tell all of us, i am looking for zim for next year though still in the planing faze for the buisness part(gone for 2-3 weeks making sure that all is good on the home front) so i for one is very interested.

peter


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AspenHill
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Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: peter]
      #84740 - 27/08/07 09:15 PM

Please post details here.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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paradox_
.375 member


Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: peter]
      #84742 - 27/08/07 10:06 PM

Gentlemen,
I will post more detail in the next 48 hours.

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84744 - 27/08/07 11:40 PM

good -because I have a hunt booked there in May of 2008

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39335
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84773 - 28/08/07 10:12 AM

Quote:

Gentlemen,
I will post more detail in the next 48 hours.




Thanks. Yes please post the actual comments/hunt report/circumstances.

We appreciate good and bad reports for the benefit of our members.

Members, please remember post the "actual" reports on here not just hearsay or general comments otherwise the posts will be deleted. It is not fair on the outfitter concerned unless they have an opportunity to respond and members can also read the circumstances of the hunt and any problems.

'Paradox', looking forward to the comments as promised. Thanks again.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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paradox_
.375 member


Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: NitroX]
      #84789 - 28/08/07 05:46 PM

Thank you John,
I am new to the site. How do I stand legally if I specify actual company, and individual names??.

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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ozhunter
.400 member


Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84790 - 28/08/07 06:08 PM

As far as I am aware you are covered against deformation if you state what actually happened to You.
But this should be confirmed...
This company would not have a three letter name by chance??


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peter
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Reged: 11/04/07
Posts: 1493
Loc: denmark
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: ozhunter]
      #84792 - 28/08/07 06:30 PM

as long as you tell what happened to you, then you are in the clear. you are in title to tell your side of the story without being worried about legal issues as far as i know.
just remember to make sure that it is stated that this is your observations and conclusions based on your trip.

peter


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paradox_
.375 member


Reged: 12/05/07
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Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: peter]
      #84799 - 28/08/07 09:25 PM

Gentlemen, please find my report as promised. Those reading this report should be aware that the clients involved are not unreasonable people. Nor do we have unreasoanble expectations. However we do believe in getting what we pay for. We are both experienced hunters and love to hunt traditionally, ie lots of walking and hard hunting.
With respect to the Buffalo hunt we understand that the decision to take a shot is uitilmatley with the hunter, however he should always be free of pressure and have an expectation that the PH has asscessed the trophy to be at least representitive.

We did book through an agent who I believe is very embarrassed by our experience. One of his employees was present for the entire safari and bore witness to most of what we experienced. To his credit he has offered an amount of cash compensation, we believe out of his own pocket. ( This is yet to be paid). Of particular note is the lack of contact from HHK, OR ANY OF THEIR OFFICIERS. Sometimes things do go wrong and part of the remedy is a recognition by all parties that it could have been better, and what do we do to make it right.
HHK have not even had the common decency to contact us.
Lastley we can only hope that this form can aid in protecting other hunters from the same experience.

Thank you.


Hunting Safari, South Omay Safari Area Zimbabwe
Operator: HHK Safaris

The following report describes the inadequate standards and service levels provided by HHK Safaris during a hunting Safari between 3-13July 2007.



Professional Hunters: Alan Moodie and Steve Boshoff.


Opening Statement:


In the context of this report it should be noted that both clients are fully aware and sympathetic to the difficult operating environment currently existing within the country of Zimbabwe. Not withstanding this we sincerely believe that most aspects of our Safari were not provided in line with industry standards or the contractual obligations of the Company. They are, but not limited to the following:



Vehicles:

Two Toyota Landcruisers were provided as transport and hunting cars. These vehicles were not fully serviceable or reliable. Both were older vicheles, poorly serviced and maintained.

The vehicle provided by Steve Boshoff blew an engine during the first half of the Safari rendering it useless. Furthermore the lack of rear brakes posed a significant safety risk to clients and staff alike. Several hunting hours were lost while the vehicle was recovered and towed to camp.

The Vehicle provided by Allan Moodie lacked 4-wheel drive capability resulting in significant loss of hunting time due to the repeated “bogging” of the vehicle. This occurred on no less than four separate occasions. PH Moodie informed me that one 3.5 hour extrication from a sand river was “ character building”. A total afternoons hunting had to be abandoned on that single occasion alone.
Of further significance was the unbelievable fact that recoverery equipment was limited to one high lift jack, which did not function properly. The severe lack of power from this vehicles engine combined with only 2 wheel drive capability resulted in very limited access to the concession, and therefore reduced hunting opportunities.
We do not believe that the expectation of fully serviceable and reliable vehicles is an unreasonable one. The failure to provide it not only impacted on our enjoyment of the Safari, but also meant many hunting hours were lost.




Professional Hunters

Allan Moodie


We believe Allan to be directly employed by HHK Safaris.
PH Moodie displayed some behaviours considered to be in consistent with his profession.

They were as follows:

Allan was found to be very impatient. ( Refer paragraph on wounded Buffalo)
Allan was found to be very excitable when closing on animals.
Allan was found to lose his temper easily

Allan’s alcohol consumption was found on at least two occasions to be excessive. He was observed to be drunk as early as 0900 on the morning of our departure, whilst at least one days hunting was largely wasted due to the previous evenings celebrations.


Steve Boshoff

We believe Steve to be contracted to HHK Safaris.
PH Boshoff was found to be incapable of physically carrying out duties considered to be consistent, fundamental and necessary to his profession.

Steve is a large man who was severely handicapped by the following:

Excessive weight

Excessive smoking ( 40 plus per day). Of note was Steve’s insistence on smoking in the vehicle cabin, forcing Graeme on occasions to retreat to the rear of the vehicle.

A bronchial condition which required a hospital visitation the day prior to commencement of the Safari.
Steve also stated he sometimes wears a leg brace to support a bad knee.

Steve’s poor physical condition resulted in frequent coughing fits (often when approaching game), and a general inability to walk long distances without tiring.

Of further note is the reference that my hunting companion “ turned down” a couple of bulls similar to one he obtained last year. To clarify this he was in fact “on sticks” on three occasions, but was not presented with a shot he was prepared to take. It was in fact the unfit state of his PH that for the most part meant that opportunities were very limited.
To reinforce this Steve’s propensity to approach game from “upwind” was common practice, perhaps not surprisingly as neither himself or his tracker carried ash bags or puffers,


We, again do not believe it unreasonable to expect that Professional Hunters should be fit, reasonably healthy, demonstrate patience, self-control and professionalism. We saw only a modicum of these qualities in Allan and Steve.




Wounded Buffalo
The following is a summary of the Buffalo hunt conducted by Allan Moodie .

On the morning of the third day we found ourselves on a riverbed as day was breaking, we heard Buffalo 50 metres from the car and could just make out shapes of a group of what appeared to be Bulls standing in the actual riverbed. I could not determine trophy quality, was shooting an open sighted double, could not get a good sight picture and so decided not to take a shot, despite Allan’s insistence that I should.
Allan appeared to be very annoyed at this and I felt the need to apologise.

As day broke the trackers quickly picked up the tracks of a group of four Bulls and we set off to follow them. They led us into thick Jess and rain started to fall. Shortly after we came up to a Bull standing in the Mapone Jess and standing three quarters on. The Bull departed before I could get a shot.
I could sense Allan’s frustration growing.
On the third “ bumping” and despite being told to “shoot man shoot”, I still did not take a shot and again the Buffalo departed.
I was at this point enjoying hunting and tracking in the rain and was confident that an opportunity would present sooner or later. I t was after all only day three. Allan’s frustration was by now very obvious.
At the same time I began to feel extremely pressured.
Soon one of the group is seen standing in thick Mapone, side on at around 50-60 yards. It appeared as a black shape, its head not visible I checked through my Binoculars to confirm it was a Buffalo and after intense pressure from Allan took the shot, one I was not very comfortable with. The sound of the bullet striking and a reaction from the Buffalo revealed a hit.
Allan, in a very excited state said that I had shot “the duggar boy from duggar boy land” !!
Clearly Allan had seen more of the Buffalo than I.
It is of note that Allan had previously suggested I load solids in both barrels, to enable me to shoot through the Mapone something I said I did not want to do. However I agreed and we now conclude that my bullet suffered deflection causing a superficial flesh wound high on the shoulder.

We soon were on tracks and a thin blood trail when we came up on the now three Bulls. One standing in the open side on and very shoot able. I whispered to Allan that that Buffalo looks uncomfortable and unwell. I considered it to be the one I had shot. Allan replied that it could not be as these were three immature Bulls and poor trophies.
He now appeared confused, as the realisation that he had instructed, no, pressured me to shoot a Buffalo whose trophy potential he had not seen OR BEING ABLE TO JUDGE became apparent.
Those reading this report will need no reminder that this is the cardinal sin and worst nightmare of any PH. We tracked these Buffalo for the remainder of the day, coming up with them more than once, but with no opportunity for a shot.
We tried again the following day, again many contacts but no opportunity.

I decided it was time to let the buffalo rest and go Elephant hunting, which we did successfully, and with satisfaction and enjoyment. This hunt went according to plan and without incident.

Five days after the wounding of this Buffalo, remarkably we again found the tracks and again identified the wounded Buffalo in thick Jess.
My frustration here was that Allan was only going through the motions, believing all chance had gone and “ there was no plan here” type of approach. I found this very negative. After all I was already up for the trophy fee. It also seemed to me that I was the only one interested in the in insuring a wounded animal was put down.
I felt it was only at my insistence that we keep trying, but I also admit to a great deal of pent up frustration.
At 1200 midday of the last day we finally gave up having pushed them too hard. We were however able to again identify this Buffalo bull as possibly the worst “ trophy” in the entire concession!!.



Summary

It is the general believe of both clients that whilst there were moments of good humour and enjoyment, there lacked professionalism, and dedication and that our Safari did not represent value for money and certainly did not l live up to expectations.

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2404
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84800 - 28/08/07 09:39 PM

Well, interesting. But I get a funny feeling about that this...anybody else?

--------------------
DD, Ret.


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AspenHill
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Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84801 - 28/08/07 09:43 PM

Did you contact Graham Hingeston with these concerns? If so, what did he say?

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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paradox_
.375 member


Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: AspenHill]
      #84803 - 28/08/07 10:01 PM

Thanks AspenHill, yes are still giving our agent the oportunity to do this on our behalf, but it is fair to say Graham is aware.

As Grahams wife passed away unexpectantley whilst we were in Zim, we have allowed a respectable time for his response, not withstanding this tragedy, I am sure someone else is running the business during this awful time, and is in a positon to say "well get back to you".

DoubleD....please be specific about your" funny feelings"

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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AspenHill
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Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84804 - 28/08/07 10:05 PM

I had heard that news as well and was sorry to hear of his loss. I hope things get worked out for you. I have sent a few clients to HHK and they were very happy. They did not have your PH's and I know Graham to be a good businessman.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: DoubleD]
      #84805 - 28/08/07 11:32 PM

Quote:

Well, interesting. But I get a funny feeling about that this...anybody else?





Would you car to expand ?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39335
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84807 - 29/08/07 12:01 AM

Quote:

Thank you John,
I am new to the site. How do I stand legally if I specify actual company, and individual names??.




You probably do not have a problem if you state only what you truly believe to be the case and your personal experiences without malicious intent.

However note I am not offering legal advice.

In any case I will see if HHK wishes to respond to the comments in order to get the other point of view.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (29/08/07 12:28 AM)


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: NitroX]
      #84810 - 29/08/07 12:32 AM

As a general principle of law, truth is an absolute defense to any allegation of libel or slander. And there is always a question on the bar exam about that. Conversely, an untrue allegation of felonious conduct or of a felony conviction is slander per se.

Further, there are very few outfitters who would wish to have a reputation for suing clients, let alone the negative media attention that it would bring to the outfitter and its principals.


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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: 500grains]
      #84843 - 29/08/07 06:46 AM

Paradox

What camp in the OMAY did you stay in?


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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2404
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: NE450No2]
      #84851 - 29/08/07 09:00 AM

A funny feeling like some part of the puzzle is missing...

What really confused me was this statement:

Quote:

I decided it was time to let the buffalo rest and go Elephant hunting, which we did successfully, and with satisfaction and enjoyment. This hunt went according to plan and without incident.




Why didn't this conflict that started during the buffalo hunt continue during the elephant hunt and then only resume when the buffalo hunt resumed. Something just seems to be missing to me.

I get the impression you have hunted a lot of buffalo before and the PH didn't take kindly to you second guessing him. At least this is what I seem to pick up from what you wrote. I could just be reading your post wrong. I mean no offense by this, but that's what I came away with reading your post.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (29/08/07 09:03 AM)


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lapua
.333 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 438
Loc: Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: DoubleD]
      #84868 - 29/08/07 12:26 PM

Gee it's a hard one .... I do know for fact that a lot of white guys from Africa are very over weight and have drinking problems because I work with them , though if I was running a outfitter safari biz my employee's wound be of a high standard full stop ... it is always the little things that count .... NitroX thanks for your time getting this out mate ..

--------------------
Cheers

lapua

ADF VETERAN ARMY

Lest We Forget


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JPK
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Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: lapua]
      #84869 - 29/08/07 12:44 PM

I don't think I've ever met a PH that couldn't walk me into the dust. Even the fat ones (ie., fatter than me!) walk every day for a living - but I've never hunted with a fat one. If the fellow couldn't walk me into the dust for fitness or health reasons then I would have a ligitimate complaint. He both couldn't keep up with the hunting and be fit enough to endure the chores of getting all squared each night for the next day. But then, I've never had a buff hunt which came remotely close to the physical side of elephant hunting. Even if the eles are stumbled upon it seems that it takes hard work to position to make the shot.

Not enough info.

JPK


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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: JPK]
      #84877 - 29/08/07 06:22 PM

500GRAINS, NITROX, Thanks for the advice, Nitrox I would love to hear from Graham..Thank you

NE450N02 we were at Manyuli Camp

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: paradox_]
      #84879 - 29/08/07 06:27 PM

JPK Thank you. Yes, I am sure this PH would be fine for some one in similar poor health who likes to do his hunting " drive by" style, however HHK were very aware that that was not us.

" Not enough info"...what more can I tell tell??

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Re: Beware!!!! Large Zimbabwe outfitter doesnt deliver [Re: DoubleD]
      #84880 - 29/08/07 06:52 PM

DoubleD. Thank you. I have being hunting foe nearly 40 years, and only recently have I had enough of my hard earned cash to go dangerous game hunting. I have NOT hunted a lot of Buffalo, African anyway, and I dont beleive I second guessed my PH at any time, but I take your point.
The "conflict" was more like a culmination of events and we could have raised our concerns early in the Safari. As you will know this is a difficult situaton when in a remote location and living in close company with service providers. Our options were to cut the Safari short, or risk an unpleasent confrontation, we chose instead to make the most of what we had, and I have already stated that there were moments of good humour.
At $920/day I dont think it unresonable to expect basics such as equipment and hunters are up to the best possible standard. They do after all call themselves PROFESSIONAL hunters.

DoubleD , no offense taken, these discussions are getting other points of view, as well as ensuring that as " fare paying punters" we are not taken for granted. Thank you

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick


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