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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Rifle failures in Africa.........
      #49182 - 05/02/06 01:21 AM

We all spend a lot of time discussing proper safari rifles that are task-capable, optimum, reliable, personally gratifying, etc.

But who has actually experienced a rifle malfunction or failure while on safari or in preparation for a safari?

I've personally experienced such problems, and have been around others who have as well.

What are your experiences?

AD


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Boomer
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 144
Loc: The Hudson Bay Coast, Canada
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #49192 - 05/02/06 03:28 AM

Over many years of shooting I have experienced all sorts of rifle failures. The majority of these failures pertain to stock failures and scope failures, although some failures have been features on the rifle which have led to minor injury, such as a cut hand from the front swivel stud. I have now developed some pretty strong opinions about features which should and should not be on powerful rifles.

Firstly, all "off the shelf" powerful rifles need a trip to a gunsmith who understands powerful rifles, and not all do. Once there, he can properly bed the rifle - every rifle I've owned from the .350 mag to a .458 has suffered a cracked stock due to improper factory bedding. Even a Ruger #1 I had in .416 Rigby suffered a cracked stock due to uneven bedding.

The good news here is that while the gunsmith has the rifle it can be fitted for you, and any amount of tweaking such as trigger work or a better sights can be addressed. Rifles with swivel studs on forends should have the swivel moved to the radius of the forend tip to prevent cut hands. And speaking of minor injuries, the factory stock of my Brno 602 gave up the ghost, and I replaced it with a Mcmillan. In rapid fire I would grasp the pistol grip high and receive a painful bump on my knuckle for my trouble. My solution is to have a filler made to take up space near the top of the pistol grip, which hopefully will force my hand lower and solve the problem. Anytime your rifle hurts you it's a failure.

The Ruger #1 I mentioned got a custom quarter rib inletted for Talley QD rings so that I could mount my 1-5X Leupold's ocular even with the front of the falling block. This prevented any chance of getting hit by the scope regardless of what position I fired from. It also kept the scope clear when cycling rounds through the action. Scopes fail - I've seen them fail - even good scopes, and for that reason it is essential that if your rifle is scope sighted that you take a spare with you, in QD rings. Regardless of the scope you choose, the ocular should not extend behind the rear of the trigger guard, and certainly not behind the cocking piece of a bolt action rifle.

Keep in mind, that from the time your rifle leaves home it will be in a harsh environment. Front sights can get bent, and beads can be broken off. All ammunition must be checked for functioning prior to leaving on your trip.

--------------------



Edited by Boomer (05/02/06 03:31 AM)


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cowboy
.275 member


Reged: 20/03/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Northern Wyoming, USA
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: Boomer]
      #49211 - 05/02/06 01:02 PM

Just last summer (July 2005), my hunting partner & I were in Zimbabwe. Unfortunately, because of the UK ban on taking firearms into Zim we had to rely on our PH's camp or backup weapon. It was a worn-out well used Model 70 in .375 H & H. My friend shot a large "stink" bull giraffe & when he cycled the gun the cartridge was stuck in the chamber. Luckily, his first shot was excellent & it
only ran 40 yards before collapsing. However, it would have been nice to get some insurance rounds in him just in case. It took us a minute or two with a "leatherman" to get the case out. The PH then replies "hmm, that gun did the same thing last week with a German client while we were after buff".

Because of that we will always check with the Safari Company/PH about the quality & condition of back-up weapons (just in case ours get lost by the airlines)


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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #49239 - 05/02/06 09:57 PM

I encountered 2 failures in Africa., the first time I hunted there.

I was really upset by my partner’s Blaser R93 I saw a couple of times fail in France, action blocked by whatever reasons you may imagine. In Africa, it resulted the damned Blaser failed only once, the action refusing to lock. A thorough cleaning removed sand grains and solved the trouble.

I was far more confident with my Sauer202 . A big mistake. The 2nd safari day, the screw tightening the fore-end stock got loose and the wood was in contact with the barrel. As I didn’t take the Sauer 15 inches long Allen wrench along, I was stuck.
I borrowed the outfitter his 375HH Brno. When finishing my buff, when I have emptied my magazine, the bolt left the receiver as I was striking it backwards. Lucky my last shot was in the middle of the dying buff’s neck
I am always trusting my Sauer but count on me : now the forehand stock is tightened with loctite and the Allen wrench is in the bearer’s backpack.
Funny, my Mauser action trustworthy 375HH Dumoulin never was brought in Africa.


--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: larcher]
      #49334 - 07/02/06 02:31 AM

I ordered a very pretty, fancy, expensive, French walnut stocked custom 416 Remington that turned out to be a dismal failure before I ever so much as took it to the range, let alone hunting. The quack riflesmith that built it had the feeding system so messed up that the rifle was totally unreliable.

That fiasco taught me one thing about hunting rifles: Pretty IS as pretty DOES !

AD


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #49338 - 07/02/06 03:19 AM

I personally would put at least 50 rounds through any rifle before taking it on a hunting trip.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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MRobinson
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Reged: 29/01/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New England
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #49342 - 07/02/06 04:25 AM

I had a couple of failures just this past October while hunting in the Caprivi.

I had a custom .416 Rigby along as back up to my primary elephant rifle, a .500 A2, and for use on plains game. With a Swarovski 1.25-4x24mm scope on top, the .416 was printing three shots into MOA groups at 200 yards with boring regularity before I left.

At sight-in on the first day in camp, I wasn't even on the paper at 75 yards! No predictable response was achieved when I adjusted the windage and elevation knobs. Finally, we removed the bolt and tried bore sighting it at 25 yards. It quickly became clear that the scope was a no-go. Somehow, the thing had broken in transit and the reticle had developed a will of its own.

So, I had to take the scope off and rely on the iron sights. Later I took a zebra at 125 yards using the iron sights, but that leads me to my second failure of that trip.

To get within range of the zebra herd containing the old stallion I was after, we had to crawl for several hundred yards along the Namibian bank of the Chobe River. The dust there, just below the crest of the bank, was the consistency of talcum powder and was sticking to everything, including my rifle. I did my best to keep the action covered, but as I later found out, a lot of that dust got into the trigger mechanism.

The rifle worked though, when it counted, and I killed my zebra. But as we walked up on it, I unchambered the live round from the barrel, closed the bolt, and pulled the trigger. Nothing. No click. So, I emptied the magazine and worked the bolt several more times. Same result each time. No click.

The dust had gotten into and mixed into a thick paste with the oil inside the trigger mechanism and gummed it up to the point where the sear lever was permanently stuck down.

All I could think was, thank God that I discovered this while walking up on a dead zebra instead of when expecting a killing shot on an elephant!

Lessons learned:

1. Always bring an extra, pre-zeroed scope. (This was the first trip in my life that I didn't follow that rule and you see what it got me!) Or at the very least have back up iron sights on the barrel--in this case, the irons saved the day.

2. In dry and dusty conditions, no oil is too much oil--and always bring tools and cleaning equipment along with you, just in case. (As I always do, on this trip I had them along and was able to get the .416 up and running again in short order.)

--------------------
Mike


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: MRobinson]
      #49347 - 07/02/06 05:05 AM

I've had a camera failure due to the dust in Kenya, four of us all had to visit a camera repair shop in Nairobi. And had two load/bullet failures in Zimbabwe. But no rifle failure.

The batch of bullets (180 gr Nosler Partitions - .30-06) were failing to open up and acted like solids. Luckily had 200 gr loads as well and they worked much much better. The batch of 180 grs must have been a perculiar lot as no one else seems to have had a problem.

I neglected re-size my .375 H&H necks on another trip and they were moving in the magazine under recoil which caused me some problems as well.

The scopes and rifles all worked very well as they were well tested before hand. I think the whole package - rifle, mount, scope and ammo needs to be in balance and well tuned.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
Loc: Chevy Chase, MD
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: NitroX]
      #49416 - 07/02/06 02:52 PM

For a bolt rifle in the dust, I have also found less is more. I apply Rig? grease, which is what I use for my DR and shotguns, where grease should be and also where oil should be then then wipe it off vigorously. Enough lubrication is left for all to operate smoothly and no extra to accumulate dust and grit.

JPK


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larcher
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Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: JPK]
      #49442 - 08/02/06 12:58 AM

KEROSENE

Every time I go to Africa, my rifles are oil free.
I remove any oil in litteraly pouring kerosene in the action and the trigger mecanism. I even fill the barrel with kerosene, shake it and empty it. Any metallic part is rubbed with a rag soaked with kerosene.
For the Sauer 202, I removed the stock and dip it in the kerosene.
The kerosene removes any oil and let the surfaces slightly greasy.
The drawbacks are 3. Kero is bad for the wooden stock and in wet conditions the rifle will rust.
The odor : kero stinks, one have to do that long before the safari begins.


--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."


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bwanamrm
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Reged: 24/07/03
Posts: 25
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #49506 - 08/02/06 11:41 AM

I've only had one rifle failure in my nine safaris to Africa and like Mrlexma, mine occurred in Namibia back in 1999. It was in my old Winchester 70 .375H&H and was entirely my fault as I had handloaded my ammo pretty hot. All the press I read was that any of the .300's were suitable but with one safari under my belt and being an expert, I decided the .375 would do it all, especially if I packed those long cases full of W760! Well, those of you who handload proably know how this story ends! Day three, a mid-day stalk on gemsbok across open dunes in the heat. Heat = high pressure = blown primer pocket = jammed rifle = embarassing miss on nice gemsbok bull! My partner on that hunt was understanding and we shared his .338 for the next seven days and we shot all the game we wanted...however, I learned a very valuable set of lessons:

1. One or seven trips to Africa doesn't make you an expert, listen to the recommendation of your PH on caliber and shot distances.

2. Always bring a back-up rifle capable of any job you need it to perform on the hunt.

3. If you handload, keep loads below maximum, the African sun and heat can spike pressures and play havoc with your loads.

4. The .375 H&H is a GREAT cartridge but see #1.

--------------------
"I do not believe there are many more impressive sights than a city man's first glimpse at a live maned lion loose on a plain in strange country."
-Robert Ruark


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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: bwanamrm]
      #49621 - 10/02/06 12:56 AM

Those are all great points, especially your comments about operating pressures.

Another potential problem that needs to be addressed is trigger adjustment, particularly with Model 70s. I had a good local riflesmith adjust the trigger on a Model 70 458 Win. Mag. to a very crisp 2.5 lbs. At home and at the range, I had absolutely no problem with that trigger at all. But in Africa, I experienced a slam-fire when I worked the bolt hard and fast for a reload while applying a finishing shot to a hippo. My PH and I managed to get it to slam-fire two more times before retiring the rifle for the balance of the safari!

I think it's prudent to adjust the trigger on Model 70s to no less than 3 lbs. (3.5's even better), and then make absolutely sure that there's no possibility for a slam-fire or any other trigger-related problem.

AD



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bwanamrm
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Reged: 24/07/03
Posts: 25
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #49652 - 10/02/06 10:16 AM

Allen,
I would agree with the "too light" trigger pull and am guilty of the same. What this thread doesn't discuss is scope failure...I have had this happen on safari also. Once in the Limpopo area of the RSA my .338 took a hard knock climbing out of the bakkie which blew the adjustments in my Zeiss scope and caused me some pain and suffering until I realized it was the scope and not the rifle. Thank goodness I had learned my lesson (see lesson #2 above)earlier and had a back-up rifle. Found out it was the scope after I got her home and stuck a bore sighter on the rifle. Live, hunt and learn!

--------------------
"I do not believe there are many more impressive sights than a city man's first glimpse at a live maned lion loose on a plain in strange country."
-Robert Ruark

Edited by bwanamrm (10/02/06 10:17 AM)


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Mike_McGuire
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Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #49663 - 10/02/06 12:36 PM

Allen,

An important issue is sear engagement and the nature of the sear engagement.

You can have a 1.5 pound trigger not slam fire while a 3 pound trigger can slam fire.

As a side note, rifles like Wby, Rem 700 etc with spring loaded plunger ejectors can be set up where they will slam fire on an empty chamber but will not slam fire when a round is in the chamber. The spring loaded ejector acts as a buffer or cushion.

Another issue (which I know Echols looks after with his re pinning of the trigger) is that trigger pieces that are sloppy do not always have the same sear engagement from shot to shot and in particular the the trigger piece engages the sear at different angles.

Mike



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22hornet
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Reged: 19/02/06
Posts: 3
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #50281 - 19/02/06 05:26 AM

I travel with a pair of Blaser R93's and have nver had a problem. Due to the ability to interchange barells, stock, scopes between guns gives me the flexibility in case of a problem. An examble is I could switch the barell on my 416 remington to my 300 win mag if a stock broke.

A friend had the bolt from his rifle monkeyed with coming through London.


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BigBullet
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Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 22
Loc: Yulee, FL USA
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: 22hornet]
      #50304 - 19/02/06 11:28 AM

While shooting my Whitworth in 375 H&H my floor plate opened dumping the cartridges on the ground. Luckily, it was while shooting a blesbok and not something bigger.

The reason I went to my Whitworth was because I took a shot with my 35 Whelen on the Springfield action, quickly reloaded and walked to the downed animal saw that it was dead and unloaded, leaving the bullet stuck in the rifling. Of course we were in a remote camp, with no cleaning rod handy. A segmented cleaning rod now goes in my day pack.

BigBullet

--------------------
"But I have always held it little short of criminality to anticipate evils, I will allow it to be a good, comfortable road until I am compelled to believe otherwise." William Clark May 1805


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JPK
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Reged: 31/08/04
Posts: 734
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Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: BigBullet]
      #50314 - 19/02/06 03:27 PM

I gotta say that there is as yet no rifle failure, only operator/reloader/preperation failures.

JPK


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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: JPK]
      #50317 - 19/02/06 04:16 PM


JPK

so true, so true....


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markhyoung
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Reged: 31/10/05
Posts: 49
Loc: Cody, WY, USA
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #50526 - 22/02/06 08:49 AM

Knock on wood but so far I've had no unpleasant surprises with my shooting equipment while on safari. I did have a stock split on my pet 458 about 2 weeks before I was going on safari. At that time my newly acquired 416 had a feeding problem and my 375 was in the shop. Two differnt people lent me 375's only to have both of them fail. One didn't have quite enough sear engagement and would not always cock. The other was a European rifle and the Redfield scope mount was broken. Both of these problems were unknown to the owners at the time. So I ended up taking the 416 which worked out OK but I had to remember it was a 2 shooter. Of course the 2 buff I shot were the bullet proof variety with one taking 5 and the other 7 shots to finish. I nearly had a rectal bleed before the safari but on the ground things worked fine.

Mark

--------------------
Mark H. Young
ADAM CLEMENTS SAFARI TRACKERS INC.
WORLDWIDE BIG GAME, WINGSHOOTING AND PHOTO SAFARIS
www.safaritrackers.com
Office 1-307-587-6372
FAX 1-307-587-3385


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MRobinson
.275 member


Reged: 29/01/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New England
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: markhyoung]
      #50772 - 24/02/06 04:30 PM

Mark, thanks for posting that. I will pull up this thread next time my wife asks me why on earth I think I need another dangerous game rifle!

--------------------
Mike


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oupa
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Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #51145 - 02/03/06 03:22 AM

Rifle failures... hmm, perhaps malfunction would be a better term. One thing I would stress is PREMIUM BULLETS! I've had "regular" bullets let me down too much. With all you invest in a trip saving ten or twenty dollars on a box of ammo is insane - don't do it! Even on light game this is important. I've had non-premium bullets (.308) totally disintegrate and (8mm) totally fail to expand on impala. Bonded core, controlled expansion bullets tailored to your chambering and velocity are considerations not to be taken lightly. The time to do this preparation is before leaving home!

Other "small things" can be potential disasters as well. Last year I originally intended to take my 30-06 for plains game but changed my plan out of fear of complications with the new FCA in licensing my 30-06 and my wife's .308 - both thirty caliber. So I took a 7x64Breneke. The 7x64 was carefully prepared and sighted in at home... in 40F degree weather. On arrival in camp the rifle refused to print any two shots consistently, and I mean all over the beer box target backing! Much tinkering and nearly half my ammo later I slid a hundred Rand note between the barrel and fore end. It stopped abruptly at the sling stud! The more than 40F degree temperature difference was enough to cause the stud to contact the free-floated barrel and cause havoc. I screwed it out 1/2 turn and fired three shots into a clover-leaf!


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allenday
.333 member


Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: oupa]
      #51147 - 02/03/06 04:53 AM

Oupa, if you'd expand on one of your points, I'd like to better understand your concerns about licensing your 30-06 and 308 rifles. What are the issues involved with .30 caliber rifles? I've used a 300 Win. Mag. on a number of safaris, including last season, and I haven't run into a problem of any kind. What don't I understand?

AD


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oupa
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Reged: 01/03/06
Posts: 127
Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #51172 - 02/03/06 12:36 PM

I was told the new FCA does not allow more than one rifle of the same caliber. Now of course a .308Win. and a 30-06 are not the same caliber, but they are both thirty caliber . It was suggested that an overly strict or unknowing SAPS official may cause a fuss. Rather than risk a problem or a delay in our schedule I decided against the 30-06... not to mention I was anxious to try the 7x64 anyway

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rgp
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Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: allenday]
      #51188 - 02/03/06 07:25 PM

Allen,

Years ago when in school I worked at a gun shop and one task they assigned me was sighting in rifles for their "sighting and test firing" service.

What I noticed was that shooters did not use this service, but a lot of guys who were going hunting in Africa or Alaska or anywhere else dropped off rifles to be sighted in prior to a trip. These rifles were frequently brand new and unfired by the owner. The owner wanted us to sight in the rifle because he didn't want to shoot it himself until he needed to do so. Hence these rifles were regularly boresighted and fired at most 10 to 15 shots at a range before they went to their destination. As you know that is not exactly a "test" of any sort and constitutes taking a new rifle on a safari. When they returned home from their hunting trip, a lot of these rifles came back to the shop and ended up for sale on consignment in the rack with the used guns.

A lot of people in the USA who hunt do not shoot much...think of the people you know and you can probably dredge up a few who buy a box of 20 rounds of ammunition to hunt deer and they still have some ammo left from that box three years later. They fire four rounds a year and think their rifle is reliable because it does not fail during this horribly trying experience...

I would respectfully submit that most people do NOT actually test their equipment but rather just expect it to work. Most of them only test it at the time that they actually need it and as such I believe that a lot of those failures are frequently more the fault of the owner than the product.

Richard.


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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
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Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: Rifle failures in Africa......... [Re: oupa]
      #51207 - 03/03/06 01:09 AM

For your future reference, there is absolutely no conflict in bringing in a .308 and a 30:06. Yes, they both shoot 30 caliber bullets, but the rifles are not looked at as being the same caliber.

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